Swansea - Post match thread

[cibaman]

If you and LF don't see where Pep is going fair enough. But to say that we got out of jail against Swansea sums up the shit negative mentality that seems to permeate through too many of our supporters. If we were lucky what exactly were Swansea who on another day could've been four down inside half an hour? Did they not "get out of jail"?

I'd love to know what exactly people like you want. We're third, in the knock outs of the CL, and have slapped the rags in their own back yard. Fine we might not win the title but as far as first seasons go in the league, it isn't a bad one for Pep. The jury can only be out if you're got wildly unrealistic expectations or actually just don't like him and want him to fail.

Its also Conte's first season in the league.

I wouldnt be too disappointed at not winning the league. I dont think we have sufficient top class defenders, which isnt Pep's fault. But I would expect us to finish comfortably in the top 3 given the players we have.

 

[BillyShears]

Its also Conte's first season in the league.

I wouldnt be too disappointed at not winning the league. I dont think we have sufficient top class defenders, which isnt Pep's fault. But I would expect us to finish comfortably in the top 3 given the players we have.

Conte's playing his first season in the league with no European football to worry about. It made his autumn a much simpler task than Pep's has been. Notwithstanding that, Conte's done an amazing job to get them where they are. They've been relatively fortunate with injuries/suspensions not hitting them too hard at all.

I'll be disappointed that we won't win the league. I am disappointed about where we are in the league, but not to the point of needing to blame someone. Shit happens and it has happened to us too often this season, but I have enough faith in Pep and can see enough progress in terms of both the squad and the playing style, to be nothing but excited about what comes next.

Then again I'm just a Pep arse licker. ;)

 

[Lancet Fluke]

Anyone can read back and read your original post if they choose to. It's not that big a deal. Calling me a Pep arse licker because I can see the writing on the wall for Vinny shows the lack of an actual argument you have. As I said, come back and tell me i'm wrong and when Vinny suddenly starts getting picked ahead of Stones, Otamendi, and Kolarov.

Yes people can go back and read it but lots of people won't, they will read that one line, your reply and think the gist of my post was that I think Pep is shite which wasn't the point of my post at all. I don't have an issue with editing people's posts when replying per se, sometimes it is necessary, sometimes it is helpful but what you did was not just unnecessary, it was pretty blatantly done to misrepresent what I said. So I do think it is a big deal and I think you were out of order. You'll deny that, I won't believe you, I think you were being an absolute ****, you won't care what I think so let's just leave it there.
It's not that you see the writing on the wall for Vinnie that I was arguing about as I said in my post. If his reason for not trusting Vinnie is based on not trusting his fitness then that would be totally understandable, so if the writing is on the wall for that reason, fair enough. But you directly compared it to the Hart situation,

Maybe Pep doesnt rate him same way he doesn't rate Hart.

So just to clarify, in terms of me "coming back to you and telling you that you are wrong," it is your comparison to the Hart scenario I had an issue with so even if he doesn't start picking Vinnie ahead of Stones, Otamendi and Kolarov, it doesn't prove you right. I completely recognise that the writing looks on the wall for Vinnie. I just happen to think it will be a mistake to not at least give him a chance to prove his fitness with a run of games. There's nothing wrong with that Billy, Pep has admitted he makes mistakes, it is fine to think something he does might be a mistake just as I suppose it is ok to think he can do no wrong. So, I will say it again, I have a great deal of respect for Pep, the fact that I don't believe Pep would have the three players you mention consistently ahead of Vinnie in the pecking order for purely footballing reasons shows that. IMO, you suggesting he doesn't pick him for footballing reasons is doing Pep a disservice.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

If you and LF don't see where Pep is going fair enough. But to say that we got out of jail against Swansea sums up the shit negative mentality that seems to permeate through too many of our supporters. If we were lucky what exactly were Swansea who on another day could've been four down inside half an hour? Did they not "get out of jail"?

I'd love to know what exactly people like you want. We're third, in the knock outs of the CL, and have slapped the rags in their own back yard. Fine we might not win the title but as far as first seasons go in the league, it isn't a bad one for Pep. The jury can only be out if you're got wildly unrealistic expectations or actually just don't like him and want him to fail.

I think this again shows exactly how wrongly you interpreted my post. I'm not convinced you read past the first sentence that you edited it down to. I like to think I see where Pep is going but maybe I just don't have the amazing insight that allows me to see where he is going as well as you do. But then who does Billy? You patronising sod.

 

[The perfect fumble]

If you and LF don't see where Pep is going fair enough. But to say that we got out of jail against Swansea sums up the shit negative mentality that seems to permeate through too many of our supporters. If we were lucky what exactly were Swansea who on another day could've been four down inside half an hour? Did they not "get out of jail"?

I'd love to know what exactly people like you want. We're third, in the knock outs of the CL, and have slapped the rags in their own back yard. Fine we might not win the title but as far as first seasons go in the league, it isn't a bad one for Pep. The jury can only be out if you're got wildly unrealistic expectations or actually just don't like him and want him to fail.

"Negative mentality"..."Want him to fail"

Always the messenger.

 

[Chris in London]

Conte's playing his first season in the league with no European football to worry about. It made his autumn a much simpler task than Pep's has been. Notwithstanding that, Conte's done an amazing job to get them where they are. They've been relatively fortunate with injuries/suspensions not hitting them too hard at all.

I'll be disappointed that we won't win the league. I am disappointed about where we are in the league, but not to the point of needing to blame someone. Shit happens and it has happened to us too often this season, but I have enough faith in Pep and can see enough progress in terms of both the squad and the playing style, to be nothing but excited about what comes next.

Then again I'm just a Pep arse licker. ;)

Football at this level is a game of fine margins. Another referee doesn't bottle/cheat the Luiz decision when it was 0-0 after 30 minutes and you would say we win that game 9 times out of 10. Another referee doesn't bottle the push on Sterling against Spurs and again we win that game 9 times out of 10. Those two decisions alone probably cost us 5 points. The ref gives us a penalty after 10 minutes away at Everton, we probably don't go on to lose 4-0. On Saturday Chelsea should have been down to 10 men after 10 minutes, not 1-0 up.

And it's not just about refereeing decisions. Boro had a late chance to equalise against us in the autumn, they took it. They had a better chance to equalise late against Spurs on Saturday, they didn't. If Swansea's keeper holds onto Jesus header, we drop another two points. Leicester score two early goals against us and look like champions again. They looked dross against the rags, but again a red card for Mata probably would have made a big difference to that game.

Likewise, speaking of the rags, if you look back at Ferguson's final season at the swamp you remember they won the league at a canter in terms of Points but there is no way they were the best team in the division that season by that sort of margin. They weren't better than us, we showed that over the two games against them, but they got a lot of decisions and 'rub of the green' incidents that went in their favour throughout the season - and we didn't. Over the course of a season, these fine marginal points add up and can, this season in Chelsea's favour as in the pisscans last season, result in a big Points lead. But that doesn't mean that the gap in Points between the teams is necessarily a reflection of a gap in quality. To look for the underlying quality you have to actually think about the game and the performance of the team.

And on that, we have played every team we have faced off the park at various times this season. There are issues about our ability to do that over 90 minutes maybe, and issues about us killing off games when we are ahead. The defence is less effective than it has been for a long time and we have goalkeeper issues, but Pep never said he would turn us into world beaters overnight, and - more importantly- we are miles ahead of where we were as a football team this time last season. We are making clear progress and heading in the right direction, without any shadow of a doubt.

 

[BillyShears]

Yes people can go back and read it but lots of people won't, they will read that one line, your reply and think the gist of my post was that I think Pep is shite which wasn't the point of my post at all. I don't have an issue with editing people's posts when replying per se, sometimes it is necessary, sometimes it is helpful but what you did was not just unnecessary, it was pretty blatantly done to misrepresent what I said. So I do think it is a big deal and I think you were out of order. You'll deny that, I won't believe you, I think you were being an absolute ****, you won't care what I think so let's just leave it there.
It's not that you see the writing on the wall for Vinnie that I was arguing about as I said in my post. If his reason for not trusting Vinnie is based on not trusting his fitness then that would be totally understandable, so if the writing is on the wall for that reason, fair enough. But you directly compared it to the Hart situation, So just to clarify, in terms of me "coming back to you and telling you that you are wrong," it is your comparison to the Hart scenario I had an issue with so even if he doesn't start picking Vinnie ahead of Stones, Otamendi and Kolarov, it doesn't prove you right. I completely recognise that the writing looks on the wall for Vinnie. I just happen to think it will be a mistake to not at least give him a chance to prove his fitness with a run of games. There's nothing wrong with that Billy, Pep has admitted he makes mistakes, it is fine to think something he does might be a mistake just as I suppose it is ok to think he can do no wrong. So, I will say it again, I have a great deal of respect for Pep, the fact that I don't believe Pep would have the three players you mention consistently ahead of Vinnie in the pecking order for purely footballing reasons shows that. IMO, you suggesting he doesn't pick him for footballing reasons is doing Pep a disservice.

You're argument's weak as fuck mate. You're saying that Vinny isn't getting picked because of fitness issues, and yet he's fit. So what's Pep waiting for when he's fit and ready to play having played 90 minutes a week ago with no bad reactions? Swansea was a BIG game coming off the back of what happened the previous day to Arsenal and Liverpool. Why would Pep leave a player who he thinks he superior on the bench and pick someone who he thinks is a worse defender? If anyone's doing our manager a disservice it's you by suggesting that if he rates his other defenders higher than Vinny he knows fuck all.

 

[BillyShears]

And on that, we have played every team we have faced off the park at various times this season. There are issues about our ability to do that over 90 minutes maybe, and issues about us killing off games when we are ahead. The defence is less effective than it has been for a long time and we have goalkeeper issues, but Pep never said he would turn us into world beaters overnight, and - more importantly- we are miles ahead of where we were as a football team this time last season. We are making clear progress and heading in the right direction, without any shadow of a doubt.

Good post and that paragraph in particular is absolutely spot on. I'm baffled by those who are even remotely baffled by what Pep's doing. It's clear as day that he's improving the collective on a week by week basis. I think there's a need for some to try and downplay Pep's effect. Fuck knows why.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I watched my recording of the game yesterday and a couple of things struck me that differed from my immediate impressions on Sunday. Firstly I didn't think we were as good in the first half as I did on Sunday. Ok we dominated the ball completely but Swansea were poor. They lacked any kind of aggressive press and really gave us the ball to with what we would. We made a couple of good chances and should really have put the game to bed - story of our season really. In the second half, thought we were better than I had on Sunday. Swansea were far better in the second half, gave us much less space. Whilst our intensity dropped we still made some pretty decent chances against what looked like a really well drilled and organised team. Overall, a good performance from us. Oh and still think GJ is going to score a shed load of goals for us.

 

[supercity88]

I think that Pep is absolutely NOT going to 'rest' a player only for 'big' games. Pep wants players he can rely on. If he can't rely on Vinny he won't get selected and eventually he'll get sold. C'est la vie.

Feel free to come back and quote me if he suddenly is parachuted in for a 'big' game. I don't see it.

Can he rely on Gundogan this season? No. Will he still be here next? Yes. Will he be eased back into the first team? Yes. Might he be on the bench a couple of times, even after playing 90 minutes to ensure he's fully fit (and match fit) of course.

Same thing for Vincent. He's just come back from an injury that he's broken down from time and time again. He made it through 90 minutes but that doesn't mean he's suddenly fully fit or match fit.

You seem to think that in modern day football it's a case of being a) fit or b) unfit. That's absurd. Vincent was deemed fit enough to start against Palace and most were surprised he played for as long as he did in his first game back but he coped with the pace of the game easily. Not one of us would have then expected him to start against West Ham. Many thought he might be back for Swansea, but it's not really a surprise he wasn't. Why have him on the bench? For the simple reason he's Vincent Kompany. He's the club captain that's overseen our successful times and he's a leader. I saw genuine improvement defensively against Palace and West Ham. Stones looked like a man who thought, if I cock up again I'm out. Kompany's presence put a rocket up him. Phil Foden made the bench once. Was he going to play? No. But did was it still worthwhile? Of course. It exposes him to a matchday squad and that’s a good experience and gives him the hunger to get on the pitch next time.


3 games in 8 days wasn’t going to happen, even 2 was unlikely. He’ll be eased back into things to ensure his fitness. Pep wants Vincent Kompany to be fit. A fit Vincent Kompany is reliable. More so than our other options by a country mile.


He’s not going to risk him having another injury and he’ll want him fit. No point risking him Pellegrini style for a game we should be winning without him anyway. We want him fully fit for a long time. With him fit I can see us going unbeaten to the end of the season. He steps up when he needs to, he pressures the defender without diving in when the situation arises and he’s comfortable on the ball. The whole team, and crowd, lifts when he’s on the pitch. Pep wants reliable players of course, so he’s giving Kompany time to get back to full fitness and match fitness. If he breaks down again then that’s life. But you can rest assured Pep rates him more highly than any other defender at the club, as we all do.