Skashion said:I'm not happy about it, but we're a long way from the situation where the regime are responsible for all those deaths. The 'rebels', many of the Al Qaeda stripe, are also killing many civilians. There isn't a goodies and baddies and this. All we know is that the longer it goes on the more deaths there will be. If the west hadn't interfered it would probably be over already, albeit with Assad still in power. However, if the alternative is the new Taliban in Syria, I'll take Assad any day of the week.Markt85 said:I find it uncomfortable that whenever civilians are being killed by Murderous regimes people on here are happy for us to turn a blind eye.
Surely as a human being you would want to defend the freedom of people under extreme persecution if you have the resources to do so, Im not saying military intervention is the answer to Syria, but im just suprised so many on here are happy to not give a crap about innocents being slaughtered as long as were alright Jack - its a dangerous rhetoric and you would of supported Neville Chamberlines at the outbreak of WW2, Dealing with unnegotiable dictators sometimes means that military intervention becomes inevitable.
2sheikhs said:We're bound to sell a lot of it to the EU because that's where Italy is and every Italian I've been in always ask if I want pepper. (When I say "every Italian I've been in", I mean restaurant.)
Markt85 said:Ok, so sit back, watch Assad use chemical weapons on innocent woman and children and hope he wins the war...
metalblue said:TCIB said:2sheikhs said:I was making the main body of a surface to air missile last week so if it does kick off properly, at least all my hard work won't have gone to waste.
I take it you can't write messages on them like...
"To whom it may concern, have a lovely morning/afternoon/evening.
We hope this fine piece of British engineering reached you in perfect working order"
I've always thought our arms industry is poorer because of this. The personalised cards industy has boomed recently, this would be a logical step in being able to charge that little bit extra.
It's a missed oppotunity.
You must only use white pepper on eggs. Not that I have anything against black condiments. In fact, some of my best condiments are black.Trollsmoan said:2sheikhs said:We're bound to sell a lot of it to the EU because that's where Italy is and every Italian I've been in always ask if I want pepper. (When I say "every Italian I've been in", I mean restaurant.)
To be fair, I'm having scrambled eggs for dinner and I could do with some pepper (spray or shake!)
2sheikhs said:You must only use white pepper on eggs. Not that I have anything against black condiments. In fact, some of my best condiments are black.
The rebels have used them as well! Intervene directly with western troops, and you'd probably have both sides attacking western troops AND civilians dying.Markt85 said:Ok, so sit back, watch Assad use chemical weapons on innocent woman and children and hope he wins the war...
Skashion said:The rebels have used them as well! Intervene directly with western troops, and you'd probably have both sides attacking western troops AND civilians dying.Markt85 said:Ok, so sit back, watch Assad use chemical weapons on innocent woman and children and hope he wins the war...
I would have backed intervention in the late 80s when he gassed the Kurds or the early 90s during the uprising after the First Gulf War. We encouraged the rebels shortly after the First Gulf War, and 500,000 died as a result, as the west deserted them. In 2003, I backed it, but I was 15 then and very very ignorant and realise it was a mistake.Markt85 said:Ok but what about the case in Iraq ? Saddam doing the same to his own people with no rebel opposition - would you have wanted us to intervene in this case ? Forgetting aside the lies that sent us there , if our sole intension of invading Iraq was to help civilians and nothing else , would it have been right to remove Saddam.
Skashion said:I would have backed intervention in the late 80s when he gassed the Kurds or the early 90s during the uprising after the First Gulf War. We encouraged the rebels shortly after the First Gulf War, and 500,000 died as a result, as the west deserted them. In 2003, I backed it, but I was 15 then and very very ignorant and realise it was a mistake.Markt85 said:Ok but what about the case in Iraq ? Saddam doing the same to his own people with no rebel opposition - would you have wanted us to intervene in this case ? Forgetting aside the lies that sent us there , if our sole intension of invading Iraq was to help civilians and nothing else , would it have been right to remove Saddam.
However, the west killed at least as many Iraqis as Saddam so let's not get too moralistic.
It depends on whether we are likely to achieve the aim of minimising civilian deaths. In this case, we are not. In many other cases where intervention would be justified we've turned a deaf ear i.e. Rwanda, Congo to an extent, being the two biggest examples from the past twenty years.Markt85 said:It's a good answer and one that I agree with but it still doesn't answer the main point. Should we use military intervention if a dictator is killing his own people and refuses to back down or negotiate with the UN ?
It's a good idea if there's a chance of it actually working out.Skashion said:It depends on whether we are likely to achieve the aim of minimising civilian deaths. In this case, we are not. In many other cases where intervention would be justified we've turned a deaf ear i.e. Rwanda, Congo to an extent, being the two biggest examples from the past twenty years.Markt85 said:It's a good answer and one that I agree with but it still doesn't answer the main point. Should we use military intervention if a dictator is killing his own people and refuses to back down or negotiate with the UN ?
TCIB said:metalblue said:TCIB said:I take it you can't write messages on them like...
"To whom it may concern, have a lovely morning/afternoon/evening.
We hope this fine piece of British engineering reached you in perfect working order"
I've always thought our arms industry is poorer because of this. The personalised cards industy has boomed recently, this would be a logical step in being able to charge that little bit extra.
It's a missed oppotunity.
We would fucking shit dragons den metal mate :D
Skashion said:It depends on whether we are likely to achieve the aim of minimising civilian deaths. In this case, we are not. In many other cases where intervention would be justified we've turned a deaf ear i.e. Rwanda, Congo to an extent, being the two biggest examples from the past twenty years.Markt85 said:It's a good answer and one that I agree with but it still doesn't answer the main point. Should we use military intervention if a dictator is killing his own people and refuses to back down or negotiate with the UN ?
Blueband Brother said:The Syrian people must come first.
You really need to open your eyes to realize who the real dictator is and who is really killing his own people with constant lies and propaganda to validate and promote war and discourse.
The Syrian people must come first , the Syrian nation like Iraq is one of the oldest and proudest civilization and we should all support its preservation rather than perversion by foreign interests and terrorists.
The Syrian people must come first and any support of arm rebels or freedom fighters or whatever they call themselves only serves to bring more harm on the people of Syria.
It is such a shame in this world at the moment because virtually all people especially in America and Europe are in bondage- bounded by invisible chains and held behind invisible bars because they don't know the truth and cannot think for themselves.
The Syrian people must comes first. The government are obviously being successful in suppressing the terrorist devilry of the rebels and that is why the EU are taking this drastic step of conjuring lies about chemical weapons in order to justify augmentation of their support for the terrorist by lifting the armed embargo. They know that if things continue as they are the Syrian government and the Syrian people will win and this will halt their plans to cleave and isolate Syria and make it a soulless, leaderless land deluged with disorder and tragedy and susceptible to terrorist attacks and the Muslim brotherhood. It also gives them a base from which they can plan and instigate their primary objective, which is to invade Iran.
The Syrian people must come first. Syria is the only nation in that region where Christians, Muslims, atheist can live their lives freely and peacefully and this why the 'freedom fighters' or whatever they call themselves are destroying the country. Because they want to impose a unilaterally repressive extremist religious group like in Egypt and so Christians, moderate Muslims and atheist will be denied freedom to practice their beliefs.
For them it is a religious crusade but the Syrian people must come first and they should have the freedom to practice whatever religion they want and they should have the right to decide who they want to rule them and not be subjected to the foreign forces desire in the name of the perverse perfidy known as democracy.
The Syrian people must come first and we should all support them and not support any perpetuation of war by the NATO influenced terrorist and selfish power hungry puppets.
And what he says is about right in my eyes. I don't trust a word the US and UK governments say in this situation.Ancient Citizen said:Blueband Brother said:The Syrian people must come first.
You really need to open your eyes to realize who the real dictator is and who is really killing his own people with constant lies and propaganda to validate and promote war and discourse.
The Syrian people must come first , the Syrian nation like Iraq is one of the oldest and proudest civilization and we should all support its preservation rather than perversion by foreign interests and terrorists.
The Syrian people must come first and any support of arm rebels or freedom fighters or whatever they call themselves only serves to bring more harm on the people of Syria.
It is such a shame in this world at the moment because virtually all people especially in America and Europe are in bondage- bounded by invisible chains and held behind invisible bars because they don't know the truth and cannot think for themselves.
The Syrian people must comes first. The government are obviously being successful in suppressing the terrorist devilry of the rebels and that is why the EU are taking this drastic step of conjuring lies about chemical weapons in order to justify augmentation of their support for the terrorist by lifting the armed embargo. They know that if things continue as they are the Syrian government and the Syrian people will win and this will halt their plans to cleave and isolate Syria and make it a soulless, leaderless land deluged with disorder and tragedy and susceptible to terrorist attacks and the Muslim brotherhood. It also gives them a base from which they can plan and instigate their primary objective, which is to invade Iran.
The Syrian people must come first. Syria is the only nation in that region where Christians, Muslims, atheist can live their lives freely and peacefully and this why the 'freedom fighters' or whatever they call themselves are destroying the country. Because they want to impose a unilaterally repressive extremist religious group like in Egypt and so Christians, moderate Muslims and atheist will be denied freedom to practice their beliefs.
For them it is a religious crusade but the Syrian people must come first and they should have the freedom to practice whatever religion they want and they should have the right to decide who they want to rule them and not be subjected to the foreign forces desire in the name of the perverse perfidy known as democracy.
The Syrian people must come first and we should all support them and not support any perpetuation of war by the NATO influenced terrorist and selfish power hungry puppets.
Well, it's certainly refreshing to hear from someone who may have some experience.
You appear to know something of what you are talking about.
stonerblue said:Simple question;
If the US arms the people fighting the government why are they not terrorists?