Syria (merged)

[metalblue]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

I can't speak for the church which in my opinion is a million
miles away from Christs teachings.
They quote all that stuff when it suits.
Jesus taught tolerance,love and forgiveness.
"Let he amongst you who is without sin cast the first stone"

I have no problem with Jesus, as I made clear earlier. I embrace his values, without thinking he was the son of God.

Does that mean you don't place any credence in the Ten Commandments then as they are Old Testament?

Having a belief in Christ tells me anyway that i should not kill, bear false witness, steal, commit adultery.that i should honour my Father and my Mother etc.
Of course i am only human.
To err is human,to forgive divine.
I never said Jesus was the son of God, i don't think he ever claimed that.

The only thing that is stopping you killing is your belief in Christ? Seriously?

 

[Skashion]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

Having a belief in Christ tells me anyway that i should not kill, bear false witness, steal, commit adultery.that i should honour my Father and my Mother etc.
Of course i am only human.
To err is human,to forgive divine.
I never said Jesus was the son of God, i don't think he ever claimed that.

John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." [9] Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? [10] Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

John 10:37-38 [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

Matthew 27:43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.'"

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

I think he might have done.

 

[pee dubya]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

who gives a shit

leave them to it

The 10% Christian minority get slaughtered though

The rebels are a far bigger threat to the Christian minority than Assad's Government is. Leave them to it and Assad will win.

 

[2sheikhs]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

Has anybody stopped to think about what happens to hamsters?
They originate from Syria. Being nocturnal creatures, they might see the benefit of the skies being lit up at night while they're searching for food but wars happen in the daytime as well.
When the fucking hell are they supposed to get any kip?

 

[BlueHammer85]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

Has anybody stopped to think about what happens to hamsters?
They originate from Syria. Being nocturnal creatures, they might see the benefit of the skies being lit up at night while they're searching for food but wars happen in the daytime as well.
When the fucking hell are they supposed to get any kip?

Latest sources suggest The Rebels are using the Hamsters as grenades

 

[Trollsmoan]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

 

[pee dubya]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

I'm pretty sure that contravenes Leviticus's commandment number 7!

INVADE!

 

[BlueHammer85]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

^ supplied from William Hague due to cut backs in the ministry of defence .

 

[guvnors son mcfc]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

Leave all these backward countries to it. They are about at least 100 years behind us, why other than oil and other valuable materials do we bother entering such disputes that we will never understand.

I hate religion, every single one, CofE, Catholics, Muslim, Seikhs, Hindus, jews and all the fooking rest !!

Religion = brainwashing children from a young age so that you believe a cobbled book of fairy stories to the point where you hate another human because his version of brainwashing happens to be different to yours. 2013 and educated people still follow this utter nonsense baffles me.

I would absolutely love it if some 100% concrete evidence was found to totally dispell all religions as fake. What would all these millions of followers do then ? They would no doubt find something else to fight over.

Ban religion and war, both totally pointless and stupid.

I've got a great idea, everybody just get al

-- Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:28 pm --

Leave all these backward countries to it. They are about at least 100 years behind us, why other than oil and other valuable materials do we bother entering such disputes that we will never understand.

I hate religion, every single one, CofE, Catholics, Muslim, Seikhs, Hindus, jews and all the fooking rest !!

Religion = brainwashing children from a young age so that you believe a cobbled book of fairy stories to the point where you hate another human because his version of brainwashing happens to be different to yours. 2013 and educated people still follow this utter nonsense baffles me.

I would absolutely love it if some 100% concrete evidence was found to totally dispell all religions as fake. What would all these millions of followers do then ? They would no doubt find something else to fight over.

Ban religion and war, both totally pointless and stupid.

I've got a great idea, everybody just get al

Just get al<br /><br />-- Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:29 pm --<br /><br />

Leave all these backward countries to it. They are about at least 100 years behind us, why other than oil and other valuable materials do we bother entering such disputes that we will never understand.

I hate religion, every single one, CofE, Catholics, Muslim, Seikhs, Hindus, jews and all the fooking rest !!

Religion = brainwashing children from a young age so that you believe a cobbled book of fairy stories to the point where you hate another human because his version of brainwashing happens to be different to yours. 2013 and educated people still follow this utter nonsense baffles me.

I would absolutely love it if some 100% concrete evidence was found to totally dispell all religions as fake. What would all these millions of followers do then ? They would no doubt find something else to fight over.

Ban religion and war, both totally pointless and stupid.

I've got a great idea, everybody just get al

-- Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:28 pm --

Leave all these backward countries to it. They are about at least 100 years behind us, why other than oil and other valuable materials do we bother entering such disputes that we will never understand.

I hate religion, every single one, CofE, Catholics, Muslim, Seikhs, Hindus, jews and all the fooking rest !!

Religion = brainwashing children from a young age so that you believe a cobbled book of fairy stories to the point where you hate another human because his version of brainwashing happens to be different to yours. 2013 and educated people still follow this utter nonsense baffles me.

I would absolutely love it if some 100% concrete evidence was found to totally dispell all religions as fake. What would all these millions of followers do then ? They would no doubt find something else to fight over.

Ban religion and war, both totally pointless and stupid.

I've got a great idea, everybody just get al

Just get al

Fuck me, fat fingers and I phones :))

Just get along :)))

As John Lennon said " give peace a chance " and some fucker shot him

 

[AustinBlue]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

Pandora's box is about to be opened. Assad and his murderous crew need to be removed but supplying arms to a rag bag temporary coalition (my enemy's enemy and all that) is asking for trouble.

When the dust settles there'll be another civil war as the pro-Democracy factions and Christian minority get crushed by Islamists, Al-Qaeda, regional warlords, sundry criminals & etc. Did nobody learn from the Libyan situation after the overthrow of Gaddafi?

Apparently nobody who matters did.. or they are getting nice campaign donations from the arms manufacturers.

 

[intheknow!]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

The only thing that is stopping you killing is your belief in Christ? Seriously?

Actually that is not as stupid as it might sound.

Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks has written an absolutely fantastic article which addresses many of the points raised on here. It's entitled "Atheism has failed. Only religion can defeat the new barbarians."

Here are a few quotes, but it's best to read the whole article:



".....because religion has social, cultural and political consequences, you cannot expect the foundations of western civilisation to crumble and leave the rest of the building intact."


"Lose the Judeo-Christian sanctity of life and there will be nothing to contain the evil men do when given the chance and the provocation."



"The history of Europe since the 18th century has been the story of successive attempts to find alternatives to God, at the cost to humanity of two world wars, a Cold War and a hundred million lives. We have now turned to more pacific forms of idolatry, among them the market, the liberal democratic state and the consumer society, all of which are ways of saying that there is no morality beyond personal choice so long as you do no harm to others. Now the costs are beginning to mount up."



"In 1843, Heinrich Heine wrote, ‘A drama will be enacted in Germany compared to which the French Revolution will seem like a harmless idyll. Christianity restrained the martial ardour of the Germans for a time but it did not destroy it; once the restraining talisman is shattered, savagery will rise again… the mad fury of the berserk, of which Nordic poets sing and speak.’"


<a class="postlink" href="http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8932301/atheism-has-failed-only-religion-can-fight-the-barbarians/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/893 ... arbarians/</a>

 

[SWP's back]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

No it is just as stupid and that article is anything but fantastic given its myopia.

 

[johnny on the spot]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

The frightening thing is that Jonathan Sacks actually believes that shit.

 

[SWP's back]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

The frightening thing is that Jonathan Sacks actually believes that shit.

It's worrying that anyone believes it really.

 

[intheknow!]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

The frightening thing is that Jonathan Sacks actually believes that shit.

His article, makes so much sense, to me.

Maybe the Chief Rabbi is also right when he says:


".....there are some who simply do not understand what is going on in the Book of Psalms, who lack a sense of transcendence or the miracle of being, who fail to understand what it might be to see human life as a drama of love and forgiveness or be moved to pray in penitence or thanksgiving? Some people get religion; others don’t."

 

[SWP's back]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

You say "Chief Rabbi" as if it is an impressive title. For me it is no more impressive than referring to a leader of the KKK as the "Grand Dragon".

 

[2sheikhs]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

The frightening thing is that Jonathan Sacks actually believes that shit.

His article, makes so much sense, to me.

Maybe the Chief Rabbi is also right when he says:


".....there are some who simply do not understand what is going on in the Book of Psalms, who lack a sense of transcendence or the miracle of being, who fail to understand what it might be to see human life as a drama of love and forgiveness or be moved to pray in penitence or thanksgiving? Some people get religion; others don’t."

i WISH YOU'D MAKE YOUR MIND UP!
One minute you're quoting love, understanding and forgiveness and the next, you want us to get tanned in a world war.
Your posts do entertain me though because you're as mad as a box of frogs.

 

[intheknow!]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

The frightening thing is that Jonathan Sacks actually believes that shit.

His article, makes so much sense, to me.

Maybe the Chief Rabbi is also right when he says:


".....there are some who simply do not understand what is going on in the Book of Psalms, who lack a sense of transcendence or the miracle of being, who fail to understand what it might be to see human life as a drama of love and forgiveness or be moved to pray in penitence or thanksgiving? Some people get religion; others don’t."

i WISH YOU'D MAKE YOUR MIND UP!
One minute you're quoting love, understanding and forgiveness and the next, you want us to get tanned in a world war.
Your posts do entertain me though because you're as mad as a box of frogs.

I don't see what is mad about wanting Britain to stop war mongering and stay out of sectarian disputes in the middle east. I don't see what is mad about not wanting to send British soldiers to their death or to have their limbs blown off, be paralysed etc etc. I don't think it's mad to question why we have just spent 10 years so called fighting the Taliban and latterly Al Qaeda jihadists in Afghanistan, costing lives and billions of pounds of OUR money, only to now start arming these same jihadists/Al Qaeda who will want to sent up a Taliban 2.0 when Assad is gone, in Syria.

I'm glad that Russia and others are starting to stand up to the UK/US, it's about time someone challenged our constant war mongering and interference in Countries that have nothing to do with us. Way back when, the west armed the Mujahideen in Afghanistan so they could defeats the Soviets, that eventually spawned the Taliban and we know the rest. The west also backed Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran. We never get it right and should mind our own business. Syria has nothing to do with us at all. It's a sectarian conflict between two sects of Islam, Sunni and Shi'ite, let them fight it out and do business with whoever is left standing.

 

[Rocket-footed kolarov]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

You say "Chief Rabbi" as if it is an impressive title. For me it is no more impressive than referring to a leader of the KKK as the "Grand Dragon".

Very good!

The big "appeal" of religion is no longer that it is the true path to a reward afterlife/re-incarnation leveling up like an operating Theton or Pokemon monster, but that it is the only thing stopping us from descending into barbarism, what a load of horseshit!

This is how I understand morality; we have morals because we live in groups- a shared morality of acceptable conduct is needed to sustain the group. Why we don't kill each other simply because of irritating behaviour. Further back in time shared morality was limited to smaller groups clans, tribes etc. Ultimately though, other than as a product of our minds, I don't believe in morality; it is purely psychological. I follow a moral code because it is psychologically pleasing to do so, because it is the default position of human kind and because I want to live in society.

It is also important to mention that no moral rules are absolute, whether they originate from religion or non-religious moral philosophy because there will always be some scope for conflict and there will always be some qualification. Morality is and has always been a balancing act.


On topic the 2 options are intervention or non-intervention

If you go down the intervention route prepare to take sides (constantly) betrayal and double crossing are inherent in alliances made in conflict like this. Be CIA style subversive- give your blessing to coups, military rule, tyranny etc and try to make every situation work to your advantage. Have an end game in sight, and prepare for it and take into account changes that could affect that end game.
Intervention may not work, could even be counterproductive and may be just a short term fix and just a case of delaying the inevitable.

Or non-intervention arm nobody (illegally or legally) place a full arms embargo on all sides in the conflict and see that it is enforced so that the war grinds to a halt and then force them to the negotiating table for a peace settlement.

Regime change would only be the beginning and various power struggles and counter revolutions would inevitably break out under the first option. From where I am standing the second option seems the better choice.

 

[intheknow!]

Re: Syria: EU Lifts Embargo on Arms to Rebels

You say "Chief Rabbi" as if it is an impressive title. For me it is no more impressive than referring to a leader of the KKK as the "Grand Dragon".

I always thought it was the 'Grand Wizard' :-)