Syria (merged)

[Josh Blue]

Well unless you can come up with any real evidence it's the only one we have got the rest is just opinion

He's posted the Britam emails. It's also stretching logic to believe that a red line has been crossed when 335 civilians die because of gas, but it appears 100,000 have died in Syria at the hands of both sides, and suddenly we now have to act. Not when 1,000 died, or 10,000 died, or 50,000 died, but when 335 die after 100,000 already died. It's looking more and more like a false flag every single day.

A false flag has never ever happened, that's just an opinion............

 

[Unknown_Genius]

Well unless you can come up with any real evidence it's the only one we have got the rest is just opinion

He's posted the Britam emails. It's also stretching logic to believe that a red line has been crossed when 335 civilians die because of gas, but it appears 100,000 have died in Syria at the hands of both sides, and suddenly we now have to act. Not when 1,000 died, or 10,000 died, or 50,000 died, but when 335 die after 100,000 already died. It's looking more and more like a false flag every single day.

A false flag has never ever happened, that's just an opinion............

The whole think stank from day one, from the kidnapped Lesbian blogger who never existed, the funeral shootings, and the other busted lies from the Not-So-Free Syrian Army.

But its all tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theories..

 

[Skashion]

I very much hope I'm wrong and it's all brinksmanship bollocks but you'd have to be certifiable to think Cameron and Obama have suddenly found a conscience - albeit a highly illogical one that thinks 100,000 deaths by knives, bullet wounds, fire and explosions is ok but gas is a no-no. Whatever the reason military action if it does happen, it isn't because 335 civilians died from gas. It isn't for humanitarian reasons at all. Most likely it would be to see Assad lose and thus isolate Iran.

 

[Blueband Brother]

The accurate account and truth behind what happened and what is happening or at least substantial suspicions will surface over time but the problem is that by then it will be inconsequential as history suggests.

 

[metalblue]

Well unless you can come up with any real evidence it's the only one we have got the rest is just opinion

He's posted the Britam emails. It's also stretching logic to believe that a red line has been crossed when 335 civilians die because of gas, but it appears 100,000 have died in Syria at the hands of both sides, and suddenly we now have to act. Not when 1,000 died, or 10,000 died, or 50,000 died, but when 335 die after 100,000 already died. It's looking more and more like a false flag every single day.

How is it stretching any logic given the red line was set 12 months ago and was linked to use of chemical weapons? The numbers are irrelevant. Nobody truely wants to get involved in this but the US is stuck with looking weak or doing something and having opted to do something have gone out of their way to pretty much spell out exactly what they will attack, when and how. In the absence of conclusive proof to which side launched the attack they should just bomb them both.

That Britam email was forged btw.

 

[Josh Blue]

Mark to really think that's why they are going to bomb the fuck out of Syria?

Well unless you can come up with any real evidence it's the only one we have got the rest is just opinion

The rest is opinion? Well there is no fact that Assad used chemical weapons? Unless you know something I don't.

I'm asking a question, do you REALLY believe they are going into Syria for humanitarian reasons? Do you believe that?

????????

 

[BlueHammer85]

Well unless you can come up with any real evidence it's the only one we have got the rest is just opinion

The rest is opinion? Well there is no fact that Assad used chemical weapons? Unless you know something I don't.

I'm asking a question, do you REALLY believe they are going into Syria for humanitarian reasons? Do you believe that?

????????

How can anyone on here know ? We all get opinions from reading blogs and articles

I don't think ALL American politicians are money grabbing human killers and if you were in front of them you would see things never understood before, your not a politician and your not in Goverment for these very difficult situations

 

[Josh Blue]

The rest is opinion? Well there is no fact that Assad used chemical weapons? Unless you know something I don't.

I'm asking a question, do you REALLY believe they are going into Syria for humanitarian reasons? Do you believe that?

????????

How can anyone on here know ? We all get opinions from reading blogs and articles

I don't think ALL American politicians are money grabbing human killers and if you were in front of them you would see things never understood before, your not a politician and your not in Goverment for these very difficult situations

Fair enough Mark, I'm just wondering if you think the government would bother going to war with Syria for humanitarian reasons?

 

[BlueHammer85]

????????

How can anyone on here know ? We all get opinions from reading blogs and articles

I don't think ALL American politicians are money grabbing human killers and if you were in front of them you would see things never understood before, your not a politician and your not in Goverment for these very difficult situations

Fair enough Mark, I'm just wondering if you think the government would bother going to war with Syria for humanitarian reasons?

I don't know

 

[Ducado]

Well unless you can come up with any real evidence it's the only one we have got the rest is just opinion

The rest is opinion? Well there is no fact that Assad used chemical weapons? Unless you know something I don't.

I'm asking a question, do you REALLY believe they are going into Syria for humanitarian reasons? Do you believe that?

????????

Sorry I have a life outside of here!

I have no other reason not to beleive it, that there might be other motives may be to try and speed up the end of the civil war I have no doubt, civil wars in the Levant tend to be long and bloody, and the longer they go on the more players are sucked in, now the Europe and the whole of the Middle East needs this over with before the Lebanon goes up again (it's smouldering)

Syria straddles the two neighbourhoods of the Middle East and Europe a reasonably stable Syria suits everyone, it would also be a body blow to Iran (which would suit the Gulf Arab states and the Israelis) it might even speed up the prospects of a peace deal in the region who knows, I certainly don't go along with all the wild conspiracy theories.

Of course there is the the risk of the outcome not being very favourable, however the risks of an ever escalating civil war are worse in my opinion, the genie has been let out of the box and there is no going back

 

[lust overlord]

Well unless you can come up with any real evidence it's the only one we have got the rest is just opinion

He's posted the Britam emails. It's also stretching logic to believe that a red line has been crossed when 335 civilians die because of gas, but it appears 100,000 have died in Syria at the hands of both sides, and suddenly we now have to act. Not when 1,000 died, or 10,000 died, or 50,000 died, but when 335 die after 100,000 already died. It's looking more and more like a false flag every single day.

Almost certainly false flag IMO.

 

[East Level 2]

it will be interesting the see the UN report, assuming they can publish before Cameron and his mates do something daft.
I assume the UN inspectors can be trusted; can't they?

 

[Josh Blue]

The rest is opinion? Well there is no fact that Assad used chemical weapons? Unless you know something I don't.

I'm asking a question, do you REALLY believe they are going into Syria for humanitarian reasons? Do you believe that?

????????

Sorry I have a life outside of here!

I have no other reason not to beleive it, that there might be other motives may be to try and speed up the end of the civil war I have no doubt, civil wars in the Levant tend to be long and bloody, and the longer they go on the more players are sucked in, now the Europe and the whole of the Middle East needs this over with before the Lebanon goes up again (it's smouldering)

Syria straddles the two neighbourhoods of the Middle East and Europe a reasonably stable Syria suits everyone, it would also be a body blow to Iran (which would suit the Gulf Arab states and the Israelis) it might even speed up the prospects of a peace deal in the region who knows, I certainly don't go along with all the wild conspiracy theories.

Of course there is the the risk of the outcome not being very favourable, however the risks of an ever escalating civil war are worse in my opinion, the genie has been let out of the box and there is no going back

Sorry I don't have a life outside bluemoon my bad.

Yes all of those WILD conspiracy theories like.......?

 

[lust overlord]

it will be interesting the see the UN report, assuming they can publish before Cameron and his mates do something daft.
I assume the UN inspectors can be trusted; can't they?

I,for one,will be amazed if the U.S and our govt wait for the U.N report.
Iraq,Libya,Syria ......which country will be next?

 

[Skashion]

Sorry I have a life outside of here!

I have no other reason not to beleive it, that there might be other motives may be to try and speed up the end of the civil war I have no doubt, civil wars in the Levant tend to be long and bloody, and the longer they go on the more players are sucked in, now the Europe and the whole of the Middle East needs this over with before the Lebanon goes up again (it's smouldering)

Syria straddles the two neighbourhoods of the Middle East and Europe a reasonably stable Syria suits everyone, it would also be a body blow to Iran (which would suit the Gulf Arab states and the Israelis) it might even speed up the prospects of a peace deal in the region who knows, I certainly don't go along with all the wild conspiracy theories.

Of course there is the the risk of the outcome not being very favourable, however the risks of an ever escalating civil war are worse in my opinion, the genie has been let out of the box and there is no going back

Other than it being illogical? Other than the Britam emails? Other than the history of governments lying to take us to war? No, taking military action is what's going to prolong the civil war. Assad was gaining the upperhand by the day since Hezbollah's official entry into the conflict, that's what's prompted this, Assad was winning. Civilian casualties were perfectly acceptable until Assad started to gain the upperhand. Any action against Assad is going to see the balance turn back the other way and back to stalemate, back to people being killed with no end any closer. Anyway, even, IF Assad is removed. It isn't going to stop there. You think Al Nusra are not going to go after the Shiites, Christians and Kurds? They're already doing so and threatening escalation! Give them power and the targeted massacres against non-Sunni minorities will expand in direct correlation to their power. Syria was stable before all this bollocks and its best chance is an Assad victory, not an Al Qaeda one. The Syrian people agree with that assessment according to the data NATO gathered using various NGOs on the ground in Syria.

Indeed, Assad going down would be favoured by most of the Middle East. Most of the Middle East is Arab Sunni Muslim and isn't that concerned with the fate of Shiites, Christians and Kurds, nor Persian Shiite Muslims in Iran either. Doesn't make the aggression towards Iran any less morally abhorrent. Peace deal? There will never be any deal as long as it is framed in terms of 'peace'. It isn't about peace. It's about justice for the Palestinian people robbed of their land and right to self-determination. If it was about peace there'd be peace. Not that Israel is interested in peace anymore. That's why Israel is becoming more extreme right-wing almost every single election with disgusting people like Lieberman growing in influence. War is too easy for peace to be worth what it would cost. I tell you now, there will not be deal in your lifetime. What you will see will be the continuing annexation of would-be Palestinian lands. More settlement building. More settler violence with the IDF turning more blind eyes. You will also see the forced deportation of Israeli Arabs as population growth threatens Israel internally. However, you've hit on the right reason at least. This isn't about all about Syria, desirable though Assad's ousting would be to the least free country in the Arab world in Saudi Arabia with its despicable governance and its pursuit of pushing Wahabism throughout the rest of the peninsula and Levant. It's about weakening Iran, the "aggressor" who hasn't invaded anyone in over three hundred years. Let's pick on the Persian Shiites. Oh yes. That's good isn't it. Minorities are scum.

 

[Ducado]

Sorry I have a life outside of here!

I have no other reason not to beleive it, that there might be other motives may be to try and speed up the end of the civil war I have no doubt, civil wars in the Levant tend to be long and bloody, and the longer they go on the more players are sucked in, now the Europe and the whole of the Middle East needs this over with before the Lebanon goes up again (it's smouldering)

Syria straddles the two neighbourhoods of the Middle East and Europe a reasonably stable Syria suits everyone, it would also be a body blow to Iran (which would suit the Gulf Arab states and the Israelis) it might even speed up the prospects of a peace deal in the region who knows, I certainly don't go along with all the wild conspiracy theories.

Of course there is the the risk of the outcome not being very favourable, however the risks of an ever escalating civil war are worse in my opinion, the genie has been let out of the box and there is no going back

Other than it being illogical? Other than the Britam emails? Other than the history of governments lying to take us to war? No, taking military action is what's going to prolong the civil war. Assad was gaining the upperhand by the day since Hezbollah's official entry into the conflict, that's what's prompted this, Assad was winning. Civilian casualties were perfectly acceptable until Assad started to gain the upperhand. Any action against Assad is going to see the balance turn back the other way and back to stalemate, back to people being killed with no end any closer. Anyway, even, IF Assad is removed. It isn't going to stop there. You think Al Nusra are not going to go after the Shiites, Christians and Kurds? They're already doing so and threatening escalation! Give them power and the targeted massacres against non-Sunni minorities will expand in direct correlation to their power. Syria was stable before all this bollocks and its best chance is an Assad victory, not an Al Qaeda one. The Syrian people agree with that assessment according to the data NATO gathered using various NGOs on the ground in Syria.

Indeed, Assad going down would be favoured by most of the Middle East. Most of the Middle East is Arab Sunni Muslim and isn't that concerned with the fate of Shiites, Christians and Kurds, nor Persian Shiite Muslims in Iran either. Doesn't make the aggression towards Iran any less morally abhorrent. Peace deal? There will never be any deal as long as it is framed in terms of 'peace'. It isn't about peace. It's about justice for the Palestinian people robbed of their land and right to self-determination. If it was about peace there'd be peace. Not that Israel is interested in peace anymore. That's why Israel is becoming more extreme right-wing almost every single election with disgusting people like Lieberman growing in influence. War is too easy for peace to be worth what it would cost. I tell you now, there will not be deal in your lifetime. What you will see will be the continuing annexation of would-be Palestinian lands. More settlement building. More settler violence with the IDF turning more blind eyes. You will also see the forced deportation of Israeli Arabs as population growth threatens Israel internally. However, you've hit on the right reason at least. This isn't about all about Syria, desirable though Assad's ousting would be to the least free country in the Arab world in Saudi Arabia with its despicable governance and its pursuit of pushing Wahabism throughout the rest of the peninsula and Levant. It's about weakening Iran, the "aggressor" who hasn't invaded anyone in over three hundred years. Let's pick on the Persian Shiites. Oh yes. That's good isn't it. Minorities are scum.

I think the best thing to do is wait and see how things pan out, there is a new Middle East in creation, no one knows what the final outcome is going to be, but things are changing

You are treading on very dangerous territory especially in the Middle East when you hold on to being right, things are a lot more complex than first meets the eye.

 

[Skashion]

I think the best thing to do is wait and see how things pan out, there is a new Middle East in creation, no one knows what the final outcome is going to be, but things are changing

You are treading on very dangerous territory especially in the Middle East when you hold on to being right, things are a lot more complex than first meets the eye.

What do you mean wait and see? Do you support military action or not?

If the new Middle East involves the subjugation of everyone who isn't a Sunni (apart from Israel of course). If it sees the threatened massacres (already happening) against Syria's 35% Shiite, Christian and Kurdish populations (that's SEVEN million people). I want no part of it. A secular democratic Middle East with respect for human rights is what I want. It would have been a hell of a lot more likely without western interference as well. There was a time when it was moving in that direction, of course, it was also a time when the region was more interested in socialism and self-determination and telling the west to fuck off because Arabs and Persians could run their own affairs. No, the Nile is ours says Nasser. No, the oil is ours says Mossadegh. Both removed and ultimately replaced by western puppets who would play ball. Every time the west butts its nose in the region, it gets a little bit worse.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Josh, question for you and touching what I was earlier saying, why do you chose that going into war is a bad thing purely from what you chose to believe ?

You was against the Iraq war from only what you read on the Internet, but there is loads on there to say that it was the right decision


<a class="postlink" href="http://theprogressive.typepad.com/the_progressive/2007/02/22_reasons_why_.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://theprogressive.typepad.com/the_p ... _why_.html</a>


<a class="postlink" href="http://officersclub.blogspot.co.uk/2007/03/why-george-bush-was-right-to-invade.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://officersclub.blogspot.co.uk/2007 ... nvade.html</a>


<a class="postlink" href="http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2008/09/a-better-country.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_tru ... untry.html</a>


<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/davidaaronovitch/article3694379.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/c ... 694379.ece</a>

 

[Ducado]

I think the best thing to do is wait and see how things pan out, there is a new Middle East in creation, no one knows what the final outcome is going to be, but things are changing

You are treading on very dangerous territory especially in the Middle East when you hold on to being right, things are a lot more complex than first meets the eye.

What do you mean wait and see? Do you support military action or not?

If the new Middle East involves the subjugation of everyone who isn't a Sunni (apart from Israel of course). If it sees the threatened massacres (already happening) against Syria's 35% Shiite, Christian and Kurdish populations (that's SEVEN million people). I want no part of it. A secular democratic Middle East with respect for human rights is what I want. It would have been a hell of a lot more likely without western interference as well. There was a time when it was moving in that direction, of course, it was also a time when the region was more interested in socialism and self-determination and telling the west to fuck off because Arabs and Persians could run their own affairs. No, the Nile is ours says Nasser. No, the oil is ours says Mossadegh. Both removed and ultimately replaced by western puppets who would play ball. Every time the west butts its nose in the region, it gets a little bit worse.

Hmmmmmmmmmm again rather simplistic, your right there were a plethora of left wing terrorist groups, they all tended to implode with the collapse of the Soviet Union, the hijackings and kidnappings and spectacular terrorist actions got them precisely where? So they were replaced with a plethora of Islamic groups.

 

[Josh Blue]

Josh, question for you and touching what I was earlier saying, why do you chose that going into war is a bad thing purely from what you chose to believe ?

You was against the Iraq war from only what you read on the Internet, but there is loads on there to say that it was the right decision


<a class="postlink" href="http://theprogressive.typepad.com/the_progressive/2007/02/22_reasons_why_.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://theprogressive.typepad.com/the_p ... _why_.html</a>


<a class="postlink" href="http://officersclub.blogspot.co.uk/2007/03/why-george-bush-was-right-to-invade.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://officersclub.blogspot.co.uk/2007 ... nvade.html</a>


<a class="postlink" href="http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2008/09/a-better-country.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_tru ... untry.html</a>


<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/davidaaronovitch/article3694379.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/c ... 694379.ece</a>

Oh my fucking god!!! Mark I don't want to be rude mate because I know you mean well but these links are a joke man!

The third one is arguing 'Iraq is a better place'. 50 people died today in the suburbs due to car bombs! 100s of people are dying a week pal, depleated uranium was used in the war and the babys are being born deformed and with massive tumors (I take it you haven't seen the pictures). I can't believe anyone would try and say it was a good idea to invade, let alone a better fucking country.

7. Then came 9/11 which underlined the world-wide terrorist threat and highlighted how failing anti-West states could be used as sanctuaries and attack bases for jihadists.

That's a quote from the first link!?!? WTF! Iraq had fuck all to do with 9/11. Saddam Hussein was very strict on terrorists and allowed none to operate in the country as he seen them as a threat.

In fact the whole list on that website is laughable? I can't actually believe you posted it. I'm sure we have spoken about iraq before so I shan't waste more time explaining the history of Saddam and the west to you.

I really can believe you've posted these links.