Tax cuts

[Rascal]

Doesn’t the U.K. currently have the highest tax burden that it’s had in 70 years?

Because the proceeds from creating new money go to the banks rather than the taxpayer, and because taxpayers end up paying the cost of financial crises caused by the banks.

Tax has risen as a share of GDP partly because Annual GDP growth averaged 2.0% from 2010-2019, compared with 3.0% from 1997-2007. The International Monetary Fund forecasts British growth in 2024 will be the weakest of any major advanced economy

The highest rate of income tax peaked during WW2 at 99.25%. It was then slightly reduced and was around 90% through the 1950s and 60s. In 1971 the top rate of income tax on earned income was cut to 75%. A surcharge of 15% kept the top rate on investment income at 90%.

While UK taxes are higher than in most other English-speaking developed economies (such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Ireland and the United States), they are considerably lower than in most other western European countries

 

[SWP's back]

Because the proceeds from creating new money go to the banks rather than the taxpayer, and because taxpayers end up paying the cost of financial crises caused by the banks.

Tax has risen as a share of GDP partly because Annual GDP growth averaged 2.0% from 2010-2019, compared with 3.0% from 1997-2007. The International Monetary Fund forecasts British growth in 2024 will be the weakest of any major advanced economy

The highest rate of income tax peaked during WW2 at 99.25%. It was then slightly reduced and was around 90% through the 1950s and 60s. In 1971 the top rate of income tax on earned income was cut to 75%. A surcharge of 15% kept the top rate on investment income at 90%.

While UK taxes are higher than in most other English-speaking developed economies (such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Ireland and the United States), they are considerably lower than in most other western European countries

Isn’t the issue how poorly the government has spent the tax income though, rather than the U.K. population not paying enough tax overall?

But yes I totally agree there should be a higher top rate on the top percent or so, say on income over £x million per year.

 

[Rascal]

Isn’t the issue how poorly the government has spent the tax income though, rather than the U.K. population not paying enough tax overall?

But yes I totally agree there should be a higher top rate on the top percent or so, say on income over £x million per year.

I think it is a mix of both, it is somewhat oxymoronic that we have the highest tax rates for years yet public services are falling apart. I think Starmer in one of his better moments referred to the Tories as employing sticking plaster politics. They plug gaps rather use tax raised for real investment. So much has gone wrong I do not envy the next government, they will have to try and fix it, but with everyone ruling out tax rises, I do not see where the money will come from, borrowing will be tough as we are already in huge debt.UK general government gross debt was £2,720.8 billion at the end of Quarter 4 (Oct to Dec) 2023, equivalent to 101.3% of gross domestic product (GDP). UK general government deficit (or net borrowing) was £40.8 billion in Quarter 4 2023, equivalent to 6.0% of GDP.


Some are doing very well though,the wealth of UK billionaires has increased by 1000% between 1990 and 2022, that totals around £600bn. The number of billionaires rose from 15 in 1990 to 177 this year. Between 2020 and 2022 alone, billionaire wealth increased by almost £150bn. Latest figures from Credit Suisse in 2021 show there are approximately 685,500 Britons in the richest 1%, with a total wealth of $3.4 trillion (£2.8 trillion), you are quite correct therefore there should be a higher rate of tax on these people.

This is an interesting read from OXFAM

Oxfam GB | Richest 1% grab nearly twice as much new wealth as rest of the world put together

The richest 1% have pocketed $26 trillion (£21 trillion) in new wealth since 2020, nearly twice as much as the other 99 per cent of the world’s population, an Oxfam report reveals today.

www.oxfam.org.uk

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Isn’t the issue how poorly the government has spent the tax income though, rather than the U.K. population not paying enough tax overall?

But yes I totally agree there should be a higher top rate on the top percent or so, say on income over £x million per year.

The Tories have just cut my/our NI by 4%, how they could do that without leaving a massive hole in the budget and have to cut services, God only knows. And that’s where they’ve been able to play the ‘Hole’ in Labours plans.

Spending wisely is what the country needs, no shelling out on massive contracts for silly gimmicks such as barges that can only hold a fraction of what’s needed.

I, for one, would be more than happy for the next government to reverse that decision, and take a little more if needed.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

The Tories have just cut my/our NI by 4%, how they could do that without leaving a massive hole in the budget and have to cut services, God only knows. And that’s where they’ve been able to play the ‘Hole’ in Labours plans.

Spending wisely is what the country needs, no shelling out on massive contracts for silly gimmicks such as barges that can only hold a fraction of what’s needed.

I, for one, would be more than happy for the next government to reverse that decision, and take a little more if needed.

The UK government's tax receipts were over 800 billion last year, compared to just over 300 billion at the beginning of the century, and 450 billion when the Tories first came into power. Those figures are 550 billion and 670 billion respectively when adjusted for inflation. This suggests to me that any shortage of funding for public services is very much an ideological choice and that huge amounts of public money are being wasted. The same increase (percentage wise) is there when you look at corporate tax rates, so it's not even like the tax dodgers of the world are having a huge impact overall.

Now obviously a big chunk of that is spent on servicing huge debts caused by covid and the 2008 banking crisis amongst other things, but how much of it is directly a result of the Tories (and the previous Labour government) selling off so many basic government assets that we are forced to rent services from their rich friends? How much of our taxes are going to private landlords' insane rents because we don't have any council houses? How much is going towards subsidizing utility companies' shortcomings while their shareholders still get a dividend? How much is being handed to hotel owners because we don't have a functioning asylum process? The Tories always like to bring up Gordon Brown selling the country's gold, but they have sold off literally everything else and now we're forced to rent them back at massively inflated prices. The irony being that in some cases, these assets that we're now forced to rent are actually owned by foreign governments.

All of this is the culmination of the Tories' insane "the private sector is always more efficient" ideology that they've been plugging away at since the 70s. We're like someone who has sold their house on the cheap and then was surprised that the new owner wanted us to pay rent to continue living in it. And put it up every year. And now it's too expensive to buy it back.

 

[inbetween]

I think it is a mix of both, it is somewhat oxymoronic that we have the highest tax rates for years yet public services are falling apart. I think Starmer in one of his better moments referred to the Tories as employing sticking plaster politics. They plug gaps rather use tax raised for real investment. So much has gone wrong I do not envy the next government, they will have to try and fix it, but with everyone ruling out tax rises, I do not see where the money will come from, borrowing will be tough as we are already in huge debt.UK general government gross debt was £2,720.8 billion at the end of Quarter 4 (Oct to Dec) 2023, equivalent to 101.3% of gross domestic product (GDP). UK general government deficit (or net borrowing) was £40.8 billion in Quarter 4 2023, equivalent to 6.0% of GDP.


Some are doing very well though,the wealth of UK billionaires has increased by 1000% between 1990 and 2022, that totals around £600bn. The number of billionaires rose from 15 in 1990 to 177 this year. Between 2020 and 2022 alone, billionaire wealth increased by almost £150bn. Latest figures from Credit Suisse in 2021 show there are approximately 685,500 Britons in the richest 1%, with a total wealth of $3.4 trillion (£2.8 trillion), you are quite correct therefore there should be a higher rate of tax on these people.

This is an interesting read from OXFAM

Oxfam GB | Richest 1% grab nearly twice as much new wealth as rest of the world put together

The richest 1% have pocketed $26 trillion (£21 trillion) in new wealth since 2020, nearly twice as much as the other 99 per cent of the world’s population, an Oxfam report reveals today.

www.oxfam.org.uk

Which taxes levied upon billionaires and the rich aren't high enough? Capital gains tax is 20%, in Germany it is 25%. Corporation tax is 25%, Germany it's 29%. Income taxes for the rich in Germany are actually lower because the thresholds to hit the higher rate are much higher.

The only single factor that is very different to the rest of Europe is the amount of tax that the general population pays. It is the general population here that has enjoyed historic low tax rates for the last 15 years and not the rich. Those low tax rates have simultaneously been funded by cuts to public services. Unfortunately we need to get real and accept that if we want proper public services then we need to pay for them.

The Nordic countries have amongst the best standards of living anywhere in the world but they don't fund that by taxing the rich more whilst everybody else pays nothing.

 

[inchy14]

They’ll just go and live in another country.

But they won’t, and don’t do they, it’s just a threat. The super rich already have offshore homes, accounts etc so they DON’T pay their fair share.

 

[Rascal]

Which taxes levied upon billionaires and the rich aren't high enough? Capital gains tax is 20%, in Germany it is 25%. Corporation tax is 25%, Germany it's 29%. Income taxes for the rich in Germany are actually lower because the thresholds to hit the higher rate are much higher.

The only single factor that is very different to the rest of Europe is the amount of tax that the general population pays. It is the general population here that has enjoyed historic low tax rates for the last 15 years and not the rich. Those low tax rates have simultaneously been funded by cuts to public services. Unfortunately we need to get real and accept that if we want proper public services then we need to pay for them.

The Nordic countries have amongst the best standards of living anywhere in the world but they don't fund that by taxing the rich more whilst everybody else pays nothing.

When i started working the tax rate was 33%, Thatchers Government cut it, then cut it again and again. I got an extra couple of quid each week, but public services were cut. Corporation tax was 52% now its 25%, we have become a corporatocracy.

The whole system needs rebalancing.

 

[Brewster's millions]

Which taxes levied upon billionaires and the rich aren't high enough? Capital gains tax is 20%, in Germany it is 25%. Corporation tax is 25%, Germany it's 29%. Income taxes for the rich in Germany are actually lower because the thresholds to hit the higher rate are much higher.

The only single factor that is very different to the rest of Europe is the amount of tax that the general population pays. It is the general population here that has enjoyed historic low tax rates for the last 15 years and not the rich. Those low tax rates have simultaneously been funded by cuts to public services. Unfortunately we need to get real and accept that if we want proper public services then we need to pay for them.

The Nordic countries have amongst the best standards of living anywhere in the world but they don't fund that by taxing the rich more whilst everybody else pays nothing.

The inconvenient truth.

 

[inbetween]

When i started working the tax rate was 33%, Thatchers Government cut it, then cut it again and again. I got an extra couple of quid each week, but public services were cut. Corporation tax was 52% now its 25%, we have become a corporatocracy.

The whole system needs rebalancing.

But the argument is that we should level the balance and put us on par with Europe. Not a single country in Europe has a corporation tax rate of 52%. The UK's 25% corporation tax rate is actually above average in Europe, it's actually more than the Nordic countries.

The difference will not be made by how we tax the rich, the difference will be made by how we tax everybody. This makes sense because there are only around 50 billionaires to even tax whereas there are 31 million taxpayers.

These conversations unfortunately require honesty and reality.