thats a bit sweeping. There are plenty 'professionals that have to work similar. Some of financial services are the equivalent of sweat shops. That is in no way intended to diminish the hard out of hours work that teachers have to put in. Just saying many are in the same boat.So more money, less holidays, although 5 weeks is officially a teachers holiday, the rest being 'working'.
Accountants do accountancy. They are not social workers, nurses, therapists, mediators, business managers, takers of parent and child abuse and educators. Teachers are all of these things and more.
Oh...and now structural engineers.
Every teacher I've ever met who has stuck at the job is dedicated to it. You'd have to be, especially with the horror stories I hear day in day out when she finally gets home. In at 7.30...home at 6 ish. Working whilst eating after.
Not sure the other professionals are in the same league.
Probably better not let my daughter read this thread, as she's trying to decide what to study at university next year and is torn between teaching and nursing!
my daughter moved from Banking to nursing and is the happiest I have seen her. She is a specialist dementia nurse having previously specialised in kids with special needs. Nursing really makes a difference to peoples lives, but so does teaching when its done well. Sad to say, I think your daughter could choose easier and better paid paths.
Mate, well done to you but I don’t think we disagree. I simply said there are easier and better paid paths in life. Which there are. Nursing and Teaching are both vocations and are amongst the most crucial roles in society.Have to disagree with you, Saddleworth. She should simply go into it clear-eyed. Nobody goes into teaching or nursing to get rich. Speaking from my own experience, teaching, when it's good, is really good. When you've done a class that's been good, and you know it's been good, and the students have given a lot back to you, you walk out with a feeling of elation. Conversely, of course, when it's bad, it's really bad. I've had some zombie classes in my time — it's like the Night of the Living Dead. But I can honestly say I've virtually never been bored. (Perhaps the lads and lasses have been, not for me to say!).
Now I'm careful about drawing on my experience, because for forty-five years I only taught in universities. I realise that this is in no way comparable to a secondary ‘sink’ school in an inner-city area where teachers can sometimes be threatened by pupils with knives (I've had friends that that's happened to once or twice, so I'm not lifting it from the Daily Mail or something). But there are irritations, none the less — mainly colleagues that you have to work with and who are utter arseholes, and extremely disagreeable relations with the administration, in one or two universities.
As a matter of fact, I retired in 2019 at sixty-five, went through the two Covid years, took stock, and found that I was missing it. So after two years I have come out of retirement to do a few hours per week at a local university. I shall have had an Indian summer of three years (you've got to go at seventy, and that actually seems reasonable to me), and it has been downright glorious. It's also been a bit handy to have that bit of money to beef up my pension at the end of the month.
It so happens that I was the first and only person in my family — on either side of it, maternal and paternal — to be a teacher. I did do other jobs before it for a few years — both labouring, and office jobs. There was no future in the labouring jobs, obviously, and the office job I was in for a couple of years was just a way of frittering my life away. The only thing that really kept me going during that couple of years was going up to Maine Rd on the Euston special.
Only person in my family to be a teacher, and proud of it. Would not have chosen any other profession.
Have to disagree with you, Saddleworth. She should simply go into it clear-eyed. Nobody goes into teaching or nursing to get rich. Speaking from my own experience, teaching, when it's good, is really good. When you've done a class that's been good, and you know it's been good, and the students have given a lot back to you, you walk out with a feeling of elation. Conversely, of course, when it's bad, it's really bad. I've had some zombie classes in my time — it's like the Night of the Living Dead. But I can honestly say I've virtually never been bored. (Perhaps the lads and lasses have been, not for me to say!).
Now I'm careful about drawing on my experience, because for forty-five years I only taught in universities. I realise that this is in no way comparable to a secondary ‘sink’ school in an inner-city area where teachers can sometimes be threatened by pupils with knives (I've had friends that that's happened to once or twice, so I'm not lifting it from the Daily Mail or something). But there are irritations, none the less — mainly colleagues that you have to work with and who are utter arseholes, and extremely disagreeable relations with the administration, in one or two universities.
As a matter of fact, I retired in 2019 at sixty-five, went through the two Covid years, took stock, and found that I was missing it. So after two years I have come out of retirement to do a few hours per week at a local university. I shall have had an Indian summer of three years (you've got to go at seventy, and that actually seems reasonable to me), and it has been downright glorious. It's also been a bit handy to have that bit of money to beef up my pension at the end of the month.
It so happens that I was the first and only person in my family — on either side of it, maternal and paternal — to be a teacher. I did do other jobs before it for a few years — both labouring, and office jobs. There was no future in the labouring jobs, obviously, and the office job I was in for a couple of years was just a way of frittering my life away. The only thing that really kept me going during that couple of years was going up to Maine Rd on the Euston special.
Only person in my family to be a teacher, and proud of it. Would not have chosen any other profession.
Yes, she could and I must admit I was partly hoping she would choose an easier/better paid path but she knows her own mind and has decided on teaching or nursing (probably slightly favouring children's nursing at present).my daughter moved from Banking to nursing and is the happiest I have seen her. She is a specialist dementia nurse having previously specialised in kids with special needs. Nursing really makes a difference to peoples lives, but so does teaching when its done well. Sad to say, I think your daughter could choose easier and better paid paths.
Actually or should I say factually, teachers contracts are 39 weeks per year as stipulated in the Burgundy Book (terms and conditions handbook for all leaders other than voluntary aided and private schools). Pay is determined by dividing the annual salary by 365 1/4 with guidance how to sort out pays rates for part time teachers, this aids reductions for unpaid leave of absence and other reasons for non payment.This is a myth actually (even though it's not technically defined - they have a complex system of 'direct time' and 'undirected time'). It was tested in court when a local authority tried to dock 1/260th of teachers' pay for a strike arguing that they were only paid for weekdays, so only weekdays should count. They lost and the court rules that they should be docked 1/365th of their pay. If it was really only 10 months, then it'd be, well I can't do the maths, but you get the idea.
But also effectively you're right. Their level of pay reflects the fact that they get long holidays. You could reduce them to 6 weeks, but they'd rightly expect salaries to increase accordingly.
It's also quite revealing that when this sort of thing is suggested or moaned about, it's never on the grounds that it's better for their kids' education, it's on the grounds that they see the school as a free babysitter for their kids while they're at work. And don't get me wrong, I know it's annoying as fuck to have to change everything when the schools are closed, but do you genuinely think it would benefit your child's education for them to have 6 weeks holidays instead of 13?
Where?Actually or should I say factually, teachers contracts are 39 weeks per year as stipulated in the Burgundy Book (terms and conditions handbook for all leaders other than voluntary aided and private schools). Pay is determined by dividing the annual salary by 365 1/4 with guidance how to sort out pays rates for part time teachers, this aids reductions for unpaid leave of absence and other reasons for non payment.
Astonishing that nursing and teaching cost anything to study, to be honest. And then they wonder why there's a shortage. If you're going to force people to pay out of their own pockets, they're going to choose courses that have a clear ROI.Yes, she could and I must admit I was partly hoping she would choose an easier/better paid path but she knows her own mind and has decided on teaching or nursing (probably slightly favouring children's nursing at present).
Her elder sister is currently about to start her last year of her adult nursing degree. I'm proud of both of them as they could have used their (very expensive!) education to go for a more lucrative career option but they have stuck to what is important to them.
Sorry not sure which where you mean
Nursing degree students (and on a few other NHS related courses) do get a bursary which does help but certainly doesn't anywhere near cover the cost of the course. I don't think students on teaching degrees receive any help at all.Astonishing that nursing and teaching cost anything to study, to be honest. And then they wonder why there's a shortage. If you're going to force people to pay out of their own pockets, they're going to choose courses that have a clear ROI.