Tevez and Ireland in a 4-5-1

[Braggster]

Stevie would fit in superbly at Arsenal and United (indeed, he is exactly the player the rags lack - a goalscoring midfielder*) and it is essential we keep hold of him. We MUST NOT sell him. The other academy graduates I am more ambivalent about.

*Given the pitiful number of goals we managed from midfield this season - unless you count Bellers as a midfielder, which I don't - he is exactly the player we lack, too...

 

[redmizzle]

Do you reckon we could play how the rags have set up in recent times with rooney the fulcrom of their attacks and holding up play on his own?

Think Tevez could do this job and would see him coming deep less.

It would also enable Ireland to slot into a 5 man midfield and act as the creative force in the middle.

Something like:

----------------------Tevez----------------------
Bellamy------------------------------------Johnson
---------------------Ireland-----------------------
-----------------Barry------De Jong---------------


The biggest plus I think is it will discourage this long ball shit we are playing to Ade all of the time when we are in trouble, the ball simply keeps on coming back and is not being held up by Ade who despite his size seems to be quite poor in the air when collecting the ball.

Obviously players will come and go over the summer but Tevez looks to be here almost certainly so I really think that we can get the best out of him (a la Chelsea away) and Ireland in this system....

so what you're saying in summary is 'ade is shite and we should play like the rags'

 

[m27]

Stevie would fit in superbly at Arsenal and United (indeed, he is exactly the player the rags lack - a goalscoring midfielder*) and it is essential we keep hold of him. We MUST NOT sell him. The other academy graduates I am more ambivalent about.

*Given the pitiful number of goals we managed from midfield this season - unless you count Bellers as a midfielder, which I don't - he is exactly the player we lack, too...

This is my take on it; Stevie, like Tevez, gives the impression that he is a lad that isn't really great at taking managerial orders on board. He plays on instinct and does what comes naturally. This was great before Tevez came to the club because he was able to roam and do what he does best.

When he was playing the season just gone, I honestly got the impression that he had to think twice before doing things and he suffered badly for it. He had to play a role which was not natural to him. I think it's reasonable to say he didn't adapt to these roles well.

We can send Tevez on the pitch to do what he wants but not Ireland as well. If he can start to become more disciplined and work on the things that don't come naturally (not bombing forward at every oppoprtunity, knowing when to occupy the middle third etc) then we may be able to play them both.

Like I keep saying though, Ireland's got to adapt to make this possible.

 

[Braggster]

Agree with a lot of that, m27. As I said earlier in the thread, I believe he has the qualities to be a Modric type midfielder as well as a Gerrard type. (Gerrard, incidentally, is another player who doesn't take much heed of managerial instruction and just does what comes naturally.)

This is where the skill of the manager comes in - it's up to him to mould Ireland's footballing personality appropriately (though I am obviously not saying Ireland has no responsibility for this himself - that would be ridiculous as he has to buy into the idea - but there are much harder players to coach than Stevie, IMO)

 

[kiiiki]

As for the fergie and wenger think he's a good player, they'd say that about most players if asked about them, would either jump at the chance to sign him if given the chance? I ver much doubt it.

I believe both to be very interested in signing him.

With regards to your "superiority" charge, I make no apology for saying that the majority of football fans know very little about the game.

As a neautral I see Ireland as a nice little player, he is good player, but not good enough to make difference in any top team. he doesnt have anything that sticks out and make him dangerous, he doesnt have the best shots, not the quickest, strongest, the best dribbler. I dont think neither Arsenal or man U would go for him if he was available. He wouldnt get in neither team, and Arsenal has plenty of attacking midfielders. You have Nasri and Cesc there, add Ramsey to it and Wilshere who is getting better and better, why would they have Ireland?

 

[m27]

Agree with a lot of that, m27. As I said earlier in the thread, I believe he has the qualities to be a Modric type midfielder as well as a Gerrard type. (Gerrard, incidentally, is another player who doesn't take much heed of managerial instruction and just does what comes naturally.)

This is where the skill of the manager comes in - it's up to him to mould Ireland's footballing personality appropriately (though I am obviously not saying Ireland has no responsibility for this himself - that would be ridiculous as he has to buy into the idea - but there are much harder players to coach than Stevie, IMO)

I don't disagree with any of that. I've used Alonso as my example before because although he's a playmaker, he also does a defensive job picking up second balls and putting his foot in, there's is no reason why Ireland couldn't do this or the box to box role.

As I posted earlier, it depends what Stevie wants to do - if he is saying, 'this is me, take me or leave me' then he may have to move on, but if he buys into the idea that he has to adapt then we're in business.

This could all relate to Mancini's recent comment about Ireland getting his 'head right'. With all the will and managerial skill in the world, Ireland can only adapt if he wants to.

 

[ST Coleridge]

For all his stamina, his tackles usually result in him bouncing off the opposing player. For this reason, he'll never be a deep-lying Alonso type, and he lacks that sort of passing-range.

The Modric comparison is probably the most fitting, though Stevie needs to play 'in the hole', as part of a 451, 4231, 4312, whatever.

I'm actually really excited to see how we line up next season. It's clear the 442 was abject shite. I didn't ever think we'd ever be able to keep two up front, have a solid base and link midfield and attack, because we had too many good wingers to suddenly change to a 4312. Now it looks like Bellamy, Sweep and Petrov could be off, so we might see a Chelsea-ish diamond next season.

Anyway, it's good to be versatile - there's a nice article on zonalmarking.net (great site for the tactically-interested) regarding the success of Ancelloti's adaptability.

 

[Da_Blu_Moona]

Mancini thinks he's a top class midfielder then he will get the best out of Ireland. We need one quality player in each position, we have Tevez up front, Kompany at the back, Ireland needs to be that man in the middle for us. Just has to be.

 

[simon23]

the video of the match vs barca show how and why SI has suffered since a change in tactics......in that game (which i know was a friendly etc) he played in the hole where he is best and can be a very destrucitve force.....the pass for the first goal was sublime and the one for bellamy at the end equally as good

the football being played in that match, and by the team back then in general was fast smooth flowing football played at pace....this suits ireland and the other creative players

mancini has brought (in orcer to shore up the defence) a much stricter controlled way of playing....he has played a strict 4-4-2 and plays in a very basic manner.....side to side up and down the wings etc.....he did this to stop us leaking goals

now what Mancini needs to do is strike a better balance.....the likes of chelski and utd show that you can have a very solid defence but also play creative attacking football instead ofe can the way mancini has been playing.....yes we do need to bring in c ertai type of player to do that but SI can fit into this system

also in europe, where SI may get more space ad time i think we will see him played in his prefered role as well....

it is a necessity that the club keep him....we are going to have a lot of games next year (possibly close onto 60 games if we do well in the europa league).....we need to keep players of the quality of ireland to help keep the squad fresh to maintain challenges on all fronts

I hope to see a change in the way we play our attacking football at the start of next season...hopefully RM will get his transfer targets and get a better balance to his team.

 

[the old abbey]

are we talking about 1 season in 4 ireland? get real you empty heads hes bobbins.