Thatcher dead

[Rocket-footed kolarov]

As a matter of interest NF, who have 'we on the left' voted for in general elections since '97? I ask because Labour's share of the vote hasn't really fallen all that much in that time yet every traditional Labour supporter I know supposedly despises the whole 'New Labour' project.

Does this mean that most traditional Labour supporters now don't really go with their true convictions but rather with what they see as the lesser of two evils?

Is there an alternative? The only turnaround is opposition from within; if DM had won the leadership contest Labour would have gone back to the right, the hope is that Ed represents something different; and Labour (even if it must be a gradual process) moves away from the third way.

Milibland has some radical policies which are so radical he doesn't want to tell anybody. What a vote winner.....

Read between the lines of what I wrote, he is obviously to left of Blair and his brother, a move towards the left if it is to have any chance of happening is going to have to be gradual; Ed Miliband might not be the man to bring the change, but he might just be the one to set it in motion.

 

[Ducado]

Is there an alternative? The only turnaround is opposition from within; if DM had won the leadership contest Labour would have gone back to the right, the hope is that Ed represents something different; and Labour (even if it must be a gradual process) moves away from the third way.

Milibland has some radical policies which are so radical he doesn't want to tell anybody. What a vote winner.....

Read between the lines of what I wrote, he is obviously to left of Blair and his brother, a move towards the left if it is to have any chance of happening is going to have to be gradual; Ed Miliband might not be the man to bring the change, but he might just be the one to set it in motion.

So what you are saying is that, they can't actually tell anyone that they are moving to the left because most people won't vote for a party of the left?

So they can bring in policies that no one wants

Genius

 

[BluePurgatory]

The last time this country had a leftie government we all know how it ended and what followed and its haunted the left ever since!

 

[Rocket-footed kolarov]

Milibland has some radical policies which are so radical he doesn't want to tell anybody. What a vote winner.....

Read between the lines of what I wrote, he is obviously to left of Blair and his brother, a move towards the left if it is to have any chance of happening is going to have to be gradual; Ed Miliband might not be the man to bring the change, but he might just be the one to set it in motion.

So what you are saying is that, they can't actually tell anyone that they are moving to the left because most people won't vote for a party of the left?

So they can bring in policies that no one wants

Genius

No, I did n't say that, but there is a ring of truth in it, do you think that the Tories would n't do the same, use a "centre-right" figure like a "call me dave" or the appearance of a "centre-right" and then move towards the right with the gained credibility. I did n't say the change would come within one term, perhaps they would be upfront about the change at the subsequent election and then gain mandate or fall on their sword, or perhaps as you say cynically keep it under wraps and then do it anyway.

Do you think that the bit in bold does n't happen anyway, we currently have a coalition government, which means that policy becomes a bargaining tool, even more cynically than usual.

 

[mancityvstoke]

The last time this country had a leftie government we all know how it ended and what followed and its haunted the left ever since!

You could say that about any fucking Government

 

[BluePurgatory]

The last time this country had a leftie government we all know how it ended and what followed and its haunted the left ever since!

You could say that about any fucking Government

No you cant. Harold Wilson could not even see through a full term, so the reigns were handed over to middle of the road Jim who made a bigger mess and I am talking of the lefts nightmare being Mrs Thatcher!

 

[yerwot?]

nulabour was created by the sun. Mail telegraph and times readers were/are permanently tory, the sun is bought by the less entrenched but easily swayed.
blair/brown were terrified of the ability of the press to form opinions, and so became tory in all but name, to further their own careers and in so doing buried the labour party.
Both sides have a hard-core support that will never cross, in fact according to research by the tory back office, 4% of the electorate elects the next government. Whatever the reason this is not democracy.The winners will say it is of course. And the cycle will continue. And for most of the population the the future will get grimmer

 

[Cheesy]

nulabour was created by the sun. Mail telegraph and times readers were/are permanently tory, the sun is bought by the less entrenched but easily swayed.
blair/brown were terrified of the ability of the press to form opinions, and so became tory in all but name, to further their own careers and in so doing buried the labour party.
Both sides have a hard-core support that will never cross, in fact according to research by the tory back office, 4% of the electorate elects the next government. Whatever the reason this is not democracy.The winners will say it is of course. And the cycle will continue. And for most of the population the the future will get grimmer

Agree with most of your post and glad to say I'm in the 4%.

However, New Labour was created by the Labour party itself after recognising that if they carried on as they were they were going to remain unelectable. Labour used 'new' as early as 94 in its own slogan, though the utlimate spinner that is Alistair Campbell really 'popularised' it.

 

[yerwot?]

nulabour was created by the sun. Mail telegraph and times readers were/are permanently tory, the sun is bought by the less entrenched but easily swayed.
blair/brown were terrified of the ability of the press to form opinions, and so became tory in all but name, to further their own careers and in so doing buried the labour party.
Both sides have a hard-core support that will never cross, in fact according to research by the tory back office, 4% of the electorate elects the next government. Whatever the reason this is not democracy.The winners will say it is of course. And the cycle will continue. And for most of the population the the future will get grimmer

Agree with most of your post and glad to say I'm in the 4%.

However, New Labour was created by the Labour party itself after recognising that if they carried on as they were they were going to remain unelectable. Labour used 'new' as early as 94 in its own slogan, though the utlimate spinner that is Alistair Campbell really 'popularised' it.

the point i laboured to make was they were forced to adopt the name, by their fear of the press. The 4% is only in certain constituences, "swing seats" . where there is no history of one party dominating, Watch out for splinters : )

 

[mancityvstoke]

The last time this country had a leftie government we all know how it ended and what followed and its haunted the left ever since!

You could say that about any fucking Government

No you cant. Harold Wilson could not even see through a full term, so the reigns were handed over to middle of the road Jim who made a bigger mess and I am talking of the lefts nightmare being Mrs Thatcher!

and Thatcher did a fab job.