The 2016 Brexit debate in a nutshell............ oh wait sorry its how did WW1 start lol

[hilts]

The she same with Horrible Histories. Aimed at kids and to be educational but also enjoyed by adults.

Saying that my grandkid likes dancing around in a gestapo uniform

Thank you very much Mel Brookes.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Boom, boom, boom
Boom, boom, boom, boom
etc
The German Guns
Classic.

The ending still brings a tear to my eye.

 

[Vic]

No, because of it an entire generation believes a lie about one of the most momentous events in our history.

It's funny so we excuse it, in a way we'd never excuse GB News if it peddled such a whopper, but Blackadder Goes Forth's lasting legacy is the perpetuation of a lie.

The men who fought in that war didn't see it that way....




Condemned by the poets and then by the comics, in a way they didn't or wouldn't with Dads Army.

2nd World War good, 1st World War bad, we're turning in to a nation of morons.

You've lost me. What lie?

 

[patrickkinney]

No, because of it an entire generation believes a lie about one of the most momentous events in our history.

It's funny so we excuse it, in a way we'd never excuse GB News if it peddled such a whopper, but Blackadder Goes Forth's lasting legacy is the perpetuation of a lie.

The men who fought in that war didn't see it that way....




Condemned by the poets and then by the comics, in a way they didn't or wouldn't with Dads Army.

2nd World War good, 1st World War bad, we're turning in to a nation of morons.

I'm sorry, but this is all wrong...unless I have totally misread your meaning.

First of all, when I first saw this op, I wasn't quite sure what Blackadder IV* had to do with Brexit and furthermore, as was predicted, I assumed it would be merged pronto, but it hasn't and it seems to have upset you.

You are perhaps unaware that in the British Armed forces there is a long history of 'black humour' poking fun at authority during conditions of adversity. In fact, in the trenches, some soldiers started an unofficial newspaper called 'The Wipers Times' (Wipers because the soldiers couldn't pronounce Ypres) which took the piss of of how the war was being run. Blackadder is just an extension of that, the pathos and absurdity makes the funny stuff funnier and as has been said, the last episode is both a classic and immensely respectful.

You have seen it? Or did you just watch the clip posted and dismiss the show due to your perception that its making light of something that should not be laughed at - especially when compared to the excellent Peter Jackson film?

Finally, to suggest the idea that we look back with the view: '2nd World War good, 1st World War bad...' is just off-the-scale wrong. Look at the Hiroshima thread if you don't believe me. What I will concede is that due to blitzkrieg in 1940 things never got bogged down like in the hell of the trenches: 1914-1918 but the war on the Home front was significantly worse - Coventry, Dresden in Europe & Tokyo, Hiroshima + Nagasaki in the Pacific to name just 5 terrible events. Then we have the Holocaust and the Japanese death marches and Burma railways and the 26 million Russian lives lost (I think). '2nd World War good, 1st World War bad?' where has that come from?

P.S. I don't think you have got Dad's Army right either. Most of the humour in Dad's Army isn't to do with the war, its a class thing because Captain Mainwaring as the Bank Manager gets to lead the platoon whilst his deputy (at the bank) is Sergeant Wilson. But really Wilson is more officer material and Mainwaring not so much and he knows it. When I was a little kid, I just laughed at the catch-phrases and Jones being out-of step at every parade, but its really about the class system, which is often a source of humour in British comedy - see also Fawlty Towers especially 'Gourmet Night' and the one with Lord Melbury.

*To go full circle - there have been occasional rumours of a Blackadder 5 - unlikely now, Baldrick in particular is getting on a bit. But if they did one, the whole Brexit thing would be a good topic to use. Is that what the op was sort of suggesting? Because if he was just trying to equate Brexit to WWI that would be a bit over-the-top too, in my opinion.

 

[Vic]

I'm sorry, but this is all wrong...unless I have totally misread your meaning.

First of all, when I first saw this op, I wasn't quite sure what Blackadder IV* had to do with Brexit and furthermore, as was predicted, I assumed it would be merged pronto, but it hasn't and it seems to have upset you.

You are perhaps unaware that in the British Armed forces there is a long history of 'black humour' poking fun at authority during conditions of adversity. In fact, in the trenches, some soldiers started an unofficial newspaper called 'The Wipers Times' (Wipers because the soldiers couldn't pronounce Ypres) which took the piss of of how the war was being run. Blackadder is just an extension of that, the pathos and absurdity makes the funny stuff funnier and as has been said, the last episode is both a classic and immensely respectful.

You have seen it? Or did you just watch the clip posted and dismiss the show due to your perception that its making light of something that should not be laughed at - especially when compared to the excellent Peter Jackson film?

Finally, to suggest the idea that we look back with the view: '2nd World War good, 1st World War bad...' is just off-the-scale wrong. Look at the Hiroshima thread if you don't believe me. What I will concede is that due to blitzkrieg in 1940 things never got bogged down like in the hell of the trenches: 1914-1918 but the war on the Home front was significantly worse - Coventry, Dresden in Europe & Tokyo, Hiroshima + Nagasaki in the Pacific to name just 5 terrible events. Then we have the Holocaust and the Japanese death marches and Burma railways and the 26 million Russian lives lost (I think). '2nd World War good, 1st World War bad?' where has that come from?

P.S. I don't think you have got Dad's Army right either. Most of the humour in Dad's Army isn't to do with the war, its a class thing because Captain Mainwaring as the Bank Manager gets to lead the platoon whilst his deputy (at the bank) is Sergeant Wilson. But really Wilson is more officer material and Mainwaring not so much and he knows it. When I was a little kid, I just laughed at the catch-phrases and Jones being out-of step at every parade, but its really about the class system, which is often a source of humour in British comedy - see also Fawlty Towers especially 'Gourmet Night' and the one with Lord Melbury.

*To go full circle - there have been occasional rumours of a Blackadder 5 - unlikely now, Baldrick in particular is getting on a bit. But if they did one, the whole Brexit thing would be a good topic to use. Is that what the op was sort of suggesting? Because if he was just trying to equate Brexit to WWI that would be a bit over-the-top too, in my opinion.

Excellent post.

But I thought the link with Brexit would be more appropriately made with the famous fictional headline:

ARCHDUKE FERDINAND ALIVE:
FIRST WORLD WAR A MISTAKE

 

[Rascal]

No, because of it an entire generation believes a lie about one of the most momentous events in our history.

It's funny so we excuse it, in a way we'd never excuse GB News if it peddled such a whopper, but Blackadder Goes Forth's lasting legacy is the perpetuation of a lie.

The men who fought in that war didn't see it that way....




Condemned by the poets and then by the comics, in a way they didn't or wouldn't with Dads Army.

2nd World War good, 1st World War bad, we're turning in to a nation of morons.

If the population believe Blackadder over actual history it says a lot about our education system.

The line before the one I quoted actually mentions the war was about Imperialism, the punchline was a reference to Germany's colonial possessions. I found it funny, because I know the German Imperial possessions were more than a sausage factory in Tanganyika. If anything it is mocking the need for war, not perpetuating a fallacy.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You are perhaps unaware that in the British Armed forces there is a long history of 'black humour' poking fun at authority during conditions of adversity. In fact, in the trenches, some soldiers started an unofficial newspaper called 'The Wipers Times' (Wipers because the soldiers couldn't pronounce Ypres) which took the piss of of how the war was being run. Blackadder is just an extension of that, the pathos and absurdity makes the funny stuff funnier and as has been said, the last episode is both a classic and immensely respectful.

The Wipers Times is a case in point.

The idea that the army hierarchy would allow an unofficial Wipers Times is simply not true. Scholars who have written about trench journals have long established that they were an important part of the official strategy for the maintenance of troop morale, and actively encouraged.

Wipers was not subversive of authority. Herbert Jenkins (publisher of the first 1918 edition) was an informant to the Official Press Bureau (the government's censorship body) from the beginning of the War. When he applied for a license to publish he assured the OPB that it had been cleared by the censors in France before its original appearance.

It was even published in London for the home market.

So acceptable was it to High Command that it was agreed that General Haig would write the foreword.

Source: Archive of the Official Press Bureau.

Finally, to suggest the idea that we look back with the view: '2nd World War good, 1st World War bad...' is just off-the-scale wrong. Look at the Hiroshima thread if you don't believe me. What I will concede is that due to blitzkrieg in 1940 things never got bogged down like in the hell of the trenches: 1914-1918 but the war on the Home front was significantly worse - Coventry, Dresden in Europe & Tokyo, Hiroshima + Nagasaki in the Pacific to name just 5 terrible events. Then we have the Holocaust and the Japanese death marches and Burma railways and the 26 million Russian lives lost (I think). '2nd World War good, 1st World War bad?' where has that come from?

Listing all the terrible things that happened in the 2nd World War is beside the point, what we're concerned with is how the war is perceived. In the west the 2nd world war is seen as a fight for liberal democracy and the defeat of fascism, right wingers in particular use it as a go to reference point for their idea of freedom against commys and socialists. In the Soviet Union it was used as a triumph of communism against the forces of fascism and capitalism and is now used to bolster the state and as a symbol of Russian nationalism. In the immediate post war world from Africa to the Far East it was seen as the inspiration to shed the remnants of empire and in Germany and Japan it is seen etc, etc, etc.

Given all this noise it is important to try and get to the objective truth, it is almost impossible to do that for the Second World War, it is impossible for the First, the poets, cynics and comics have seen to that.

P.S. I don't think you have got Dad's Army right either. Most of the humour in Dad's Army isn't to do with the war, its a class thing because Captain Mainwaring as the Bank Manager gets to lead the platoon whilst his deputy (at the bank) is Sergeant Wilson. But really Wilson is more officer material and Mainwaring not so much and he knows it. When I was a little kid, I just laughed at the catch-phrases and Jones being out-of step at every parade, but its really about the class system, which is often a source of humour in British comedy - see also Fawlty Towers especially 'Gourmet Night' and the one with Lord Melbury.

Again, what Dad's Army is about is immaterial, a cosy sitcom about class set in the 2nd World War, it's the fact that the writers could set a cosy sitcom about class in the 2nd World War, or the pantomime of 'Allo 'Allo, or the farce of It Ain't Half Hot Mum, because of how we perceive that conflict. And the cynicism of Blackadder Goes Forth works for First World War but would not have worked for the 2nd for that very reason.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You've lost me. What lie?

Precisely.

 

[The perfect fumble]

If the population believe Blackadder over actual history it says a lot about our education system.

The line before the one I quoted actually mentions the war was about Imperialism, the punchline was a reference to Germany's colonial possessions. I found it funny, because I know the German Imperial possessions were more than a sausage factory in Tanganyika. If anything it is mocking the need for war, not perpetuating a fallacy.

If history is a blank page and we can write whatever interpretation we like, free of any objective analysis, the First World War could well be about a sausage factory in Tanganyika just like the Second was about Hitler's missing testicle.

 

[Rascal]

If history is a blank page and we can write whatever interpretation we like, free of any objective analysis, the First World War could well be about a sausage factory in Tanganyika just like the Second was about Hitler's missing testicle.

The interpretation as I read it was the futility of going to war over a sausage factory in Tanganyika. That is the genius of Blackadder, it takes an obviously huge subject and narrows it down to a microcosm.

Its analogous, for sausage factory read Togoland, German South West Africa. Kiribati.