The Album Review Club - Week #127 - (page 1545) - Definitely Maybe - Oasis

[Bill Walker]

My son lives in Melbourne, and I went to the Peter Hook gig with him prior to the FA cup final in the pub
In December I saw Morrissey with him
He reckons there’s a huge retro following of alternative/new wave / britpop underground following in various venues every Fri in Melbourne
And these are driven by students/19, 20 year olds

My son lives in Melbourne too.
His wife is a fan of Morrissey. Me and my son are bewildered by it :)

 

[jonah62]

My son lives in Melbourne too.
His wife is a fan of Morrissey. Me and my son are bewildered by it :)

Sounds like the wife is a keeper!

 

[threespires]

Hmmm, time to bump the average score up I think! There's already been some great reviews and responses to them from benny so I'm not going to revisit those, suffice to say I agree wholeheartedly with the comments about Foxtons basslines. I think their decision early doors to swap instruments was erm instrumental in their distinctive sound.

In polls of best British bands The Jam regularly place well below the likes of Blur, The Stones Roses and The Oxfordshire Voldemort and his crew of musical death eaters. But then so do Joy Division and New Order which to any right minded person would show these list are mostly bollocks :-). Anyway I think The Jam are one of our great bands and Weller is underappreciated. It's like he's always been around and it's a bit too easy to take what he's achieved for granted.

Take this album for instance. Weller was was 20 when it was released, and Foxton and Buckler still in their early twenties, but it was their third album. I mention this because for all the talk of angry young men etc this is actually a remarkably mature album and captures much more than a bit of angriness but without at any point sacrificing the vitality and energy of youth. It's not always that sophisticated musically or lyrically but in terms of it's overall structure and pacing I think it's belies the ages of it's creators. Bimbo mentioned it felt mellow and even safe and though I disagree I can see where he's coming from. For a still very young song writer I think there's a decent amount of light and shade across the album, shifts of pace and mood whilst as a whole still retaining a cohesive sound and identity. That's something that even highly experienced bands struggle to get right to this day

Maybe it's an age thing, but to me it's both very much of it's time whilst still sounding fresh enough today. Though I think there's a couple of better songs on Setting Sons, I think this hangs together better as an album.

Though there are great songs on here I don't really think of it in those terms, I like to listen to this as a whole. It sonically captures the idea of youth brilliantly...full of vibrancy, quite cocksure of itself and sometimes even right, open to new ideas, developing your own world view but still being a bit endearingly gauche at times. It also, in its final track, has two of my top 100 lines in popular music but that's by the by. Whilst other bands are held up as innovators The Jam tend to get bracketed as revivalists but I think that does them a disservice as they are one of the most recognisable and distinctive bands these islands have produced and for me this is up there as a great British album. 9/10

 

[OB1]

I was never a Jam fan; quite the opposite as a kid, when I would normally describe them as a poor man's Who, who I still consdier to be vastly superior; as I do The Kinks.

My biggest problem with The Jam is how Weller sings, and the pity is that he could have been so much better as he prove as a solo artist. I saw him do a short set recently at Roger Daltrey's final Teenage Cancer gig and he was enjoyable, even finished with a Jam song (That's Entertainment).

Thought English Rose was rather sweet. The beginning of It's Too Bad reminded me of She Loves You by the Beatles!

I'll go with 6/10.

 

[The Lightbowne Cowboy]

I was never a Jam fan; quite the opposite as a kid, when I would normally describe them as a poor man's Who, who I still consdier to be vastly superior; as I do The Kinks.

My biggest problem with The Jam is how Weller sings, and the pity is that he could have been so much better as he prove as a solo artist. I saw him do a short set recently at Roger Daltrey's final Teenage Cancer gig and he was enjoyable, even finished with a Jam song (That's Entertainment).

Thought English Rose was rather sweet. The beginning of It's Too Bad reminded me of She Loves You by the Beatles!

I'll go with 6/10.

Bit harsh that OB, The Who and the Kinks are two of the greatest bands of all time(and not just British) to compare the Jam with them two colossals isn't fair in my book. I know Weller was massively influenced by both of these bands and took quite a lot from them both( So much Kinks influence on this album especially) The thing is, Kinks,Who,Beatles etc inspired most bands that followed them, I just think the Jam were brilliant at making their own sound whilst nickin bits of this and that along the way. For me, they were the best British band in that late 70s early 80s era. This album is dynamite! There isn't a weak track. I personally love In the crowd, yes, Weller ripped a massive rift from Johnny Thunder by the Kinks but he did it in style. Mr Clean is Weller at his angriest best and to finish the album on A bomb on Wardour St is to finish in style. A truly majestic album which along with Setting Sons, is in my top 10. The only minor gripe I have with it is David Watts. Now for me,this version is possibly even better than the original(more edgy/angry) but I wish he'd of written one himself instead of(possibly) using a filler..just like Heatwave on Setting sons. Don't come much better in my eyes. 9.5/10.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Hmmm, time to bump the average score up I think! There's already been some great reviews and responses to them from benny so I'm not going to revisit those, suffice to say I agree wholeheartedly with the comments about Foxtons basslines. I think their decision early doors to swap instruments was erm instrumental in their distinctive sound.

In polls of best British bands The Jam regularly place well below the likes of Blur, The Stones Roses and The Oxfordshire Voldemort and his crew of musical death eaters. But then so do Joy Division and New Order which to any right minded person would show these list are mostly bollocks :-). Anyway I think The Jam are one of our great bands and Weller is underappreciated. It's like he's always been around and it's a bit too easy to take what he's achieved for granted.

Take this album for instance. Weller was was 20 when it was released, and Foxton and Buckler still in their early twenties, but it was their third album. I mention this because for all the talk of angry young men etc this is actually a remarkably mature album and captures much more than a bit of angriness but without at any point sacrificing the vitality and energy of youth. It's not always that sophisticated musically or lyrically but in terms of it's overall structure and pacing I think it's belies the ages of it's creators. Bimbo mentioned it felt mellow and even safe and though I disagree I can see where he's coming from. For a still very young song writer I think there's a decent amount of light and shade across the album, shifts of pace and mood whilst as a whole still retaining a cohesive sound and identity. That's something that even highly experienced bands struggle to get right to this day

Maybe it's an age thing, but to me it's both very much of it's time whilst still sounding fresh enough today. Though I think there's a couple of better songs on Setting Sons, I think this hangs together better as an album.

Though there are great songs on here I don't really think of it in those terms, I like to listen to this as a whole. It sonically captures the idea of youth brilliantly...full of vibrancy, quite cocksure of itself and sometimes even right, open to new ideas, developing your own world view but still being a bit endearingly gauche at times. It also, in its final track, has two of my top 100 lines in popular music but that's by the by. Whilst other bands are held up as innovators The Jam tend to get bracketed as revivalists but I think that does them a disservice as they are one of the most recognisable and distinctive bands these islands have produced and for me this is up there as a great British album. 9/10

I assume recency bias is why The Jam (and NO/JD) are ranked below some of those other acts. Ridiculous Blur would be anywhere near the top; Stone Roses too given their output is so limited.

Historic reading suggest the debate about the evolution toward mature songwriting vs. a dissipation of their earlier energy was going on when this was released too. In fact I think AMC is the biggest step-up The Jam made (from TITMW) in maturity.

I completely agree that this hangs together better as a record than SS but there are some better songs on SS -- IMO, Saturday's Kids and Eton Rifles and, especially, Smithers-Jones -- still my favo(u)rite song of theirs.

I've never really thought of them as revivalists though I can see how it'd be easier for English folks to see/feel that. My issue has always been Weller isn't hooky enough, and I still think that, and that every record of theirs is a little uneven song-quality-wise. But if you think in "whole record" terms, as you do here, that makes them even more like The Who, who were also known to include a clunker or two in pursuit of an overall impact.

 

[bennyboy]

I assume recency bias is why The Jam (and NO/JD) are ranked below some of those other acts. Ridiculous Blur would be anywhere near the top; Stone Roses too given their output is so limited.

Historic reading suggest the debate about the evolution toward mature songwriting vs. a dissipation of their earlier energy was going on when this was released too. In fact I think AMC is the biggest step-up The Jam made (from TITMW) in maturity.

I completely agree that this hangs together better as a record than SS but there are some better songs on SS -- IMO, Saturday's Kids and Eton Rifles and, especially, Smithers-Jones -- still my favo(u)rite song of theirs.

I've never really thought of them as revivalists though I can see how it'd be easier for English folks to see/feel that. My issue has always been Weller isn't hooky enough, and I still think that, and that every record of theirs is a little uneven song-quality-wise. But if you think in "whole record" terms, as you do here, that makes them even more like The Who, who were also known to include a clunker or two in pursuit of an overall impact.

I have never liked an Who album the whole way through.
A best off does me.
Usually 4 great songs on each album then I struggle with the rest.

 

[southamptonblue]

Sounds like she's always miserable!

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I have never liked an Who album the whole way through.
A best off does me.
Usually 4 great songs on each album then I struggle with the rest.

And I am the opposite though I typically like more than 4 Jam songs per record. Yet I can deal with the ups and downs of Quadrophenia in deference to the entire concept quite easily; it's one of my favo(u)rite albums and even nudges out Who's Next, which is saying something given my favo(u)rite song of all time is on WN. Meantime I am quite sure I listened to Snap more than any other Jam record when living with my Jam-obsessed college roommate.

 

[journolud]

Seems I'm not as familiar with the Jam's albums as I thought I was, having spent the last week playing them all in chronological order the only one I can really remember is Setting Sons with smatterings of the Gift. Vague memories of finding This is the Modern World a bit dull (my brother had it) and losing interest although something must have reignited it as I did have Setting Sons on vinyl. Possibly a cheapy from Sifters...

You can see the bands developments across all the albums, the first two pretty much the same and then beginnings of trying something else on this one. I would say each album was better than the last as well.

I frequently play the Jam's Compact Snap when I'm looking for something easy for driving and there isn't a bad track across that album, I think I'm right in saying they are all singles. So they were either very good at choosing which tracks to release as singles or they just couldn't sustain any quality across a whole album as on each of the ones I listened to the singles were the best tracks. The other option of course is that familiarity with them has allowed them to embed themselves in my consciousness.

So it is with this album, the singles are far and away the best tracks, yes even David Watts. I liked it then and I like it now.

English Rose I'm sorry to say I think is a bit of a stinker although fair play to him for trying and he developed that side of his songwriting to great effect later in his solo career. You'd have to say his voice matured as well. The Fly suffers from it as well.

There are some other decent middling tracks, In the Crowd and unlike others I didn't mind Billy Hunt.

There is a side to the Jam that I was always a little uncomfortable with, exemplified by Mr Clean and later Smithers-Jones. Maybe just my take to find them mean spirited, understandable given the age of Weller maybe and maybe I knew I'd always grow up to be one of the middle class stiffs that those songs seems to despise. In a similar era XTC for one seemed less barbed in their digs at those who lived on Respectable St and then the likes of Squeeze and Elvis Costello brought more humanity and understanding to the trials and tribulations of well, living ordinary lives.

Was interesting to listen to this and all their albums, I even progressed onto Style Council (nah not really for me thanks) and Wildwood (more of that please) to complement the one Wewller solo album I have in my collection. Yesterday's pick on the song thread suggested he hadn't totally kicked the inconsistency though.

Not a great album but not bad. 6 from me.