Saddleworth2
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You have just been added to my list of enemies. :-)
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The Album Review Club - Week #145 - (page 1923) - Tellin' Stories - The Charlatans
- Thread starter RobMCFC
- Start date
Booooo. I'm in agreement with you unless you are actually a master baker in which case I have no interest at all in your lessons learned or your journey but solely the end product of your labours :-)
Not wishing to derail the thread but I'm not sure I would want any additional sound track to a Peter Howson exhibition, I would find an entire exhibition difficult enough (in a good way) without any extras. I didn't get to the Edinburgh retrospective last year, is there something on currently?
It is a fairly current one, an exhibition of his works during covid, with hints of brexit thrown in, from 2020-2024. There is a good mix of his 'sketches' (which is what I enjoy most of his, and have always found interesting and, well, incredible) and a few 'finished' paintings. Which usually do less for me. Don't know if there are touring intentions for it, would imagine so. But as noted, not to derail the thread.
Ultimately, thought it the album would reveal more of itself with that, but it didn't. Good experiement.
I get quite a few thoughts popping upnas I listen to this, and I know come tuesday or wednesday I won't have been able to retain them into one long meaningful bit like a few others here, so for some of them, I'll just throw them out as and when they come.
Paranoid Android. How to make a 6 minute song feel like 20.
This is probably the reason all those years of trying came to nothing, this is where I lose interest in this album and it is almost irretrievable. At least I seem to have gotten to the bottom of that. Skipping this song makes a big difference.
And there are a few more songs like that on this one, but that being the second one in, is where the damage is done for me.
Fog often talks about this being a pink floyd rip-off. And while that is evident, I have always thought there was a bit more to it. I had intended to say this, but in all fairness, Bill has covered it better than I ever would have, so I will just refer to his post.
They have borrowed well. Really well. They haven't tried to hide it, they havent made a big deal of it. Copy from one, it is plagiarism, copy from a few - research. That is probably the biggest success of this album, something for lots to pick up on (or one to pick it all up if you are Bill), without writing it off as being too much of a tribute to anyone in particular. And as a combination, arguably sounding unique enough in its own right. And covering enough, that anyone else trying the same will sound like they have just copied this, rather than similarly borrowed from the source material.
I now get some of Rob's comments about uk indie bands a bit more. And while Radiohead have no doubt launched or at least influenced the careers of many, they have also fucking ruined it for a whole lot. Because they will always be tainted with comparisons to them.
For example I thought (and still do) he was miles off when he described orlando weeks' vocals as 'generic'. They are anything but. However, I can see if Radiohead is your go-to baseline for uk indie, why that comparison might be a touch inevitable.
I will carry on when I have more, a piecemeal review of sorts.
A bit like this album!
Paranoid Android. How to make a 6 minute song feel like 20.
This is probably the reason all those years of trying came to nothing, this is where I lose interest in this album and it is almost irretrievable. At least I seem to have gotten to the bottom of that. Skipping this song makes a big difference.
And there are a few more songs like that on this one, but that being the second one in, is where the damage is done for me.
Fog often talks about this being a pink floyd rip-off. And while that is evident, I have always thought there was a bit more to it. I had intended to say this, but in all fairness, Bill has covered it better than I ever would have, so I will just refer to his post.
They have borrowed well. Really well. They haven't tried to hide it, they havent made a big deal of it. Copy from one, it is plagiarism, copy from a few - research. That is probably the biggest success of this album, something for lots to pick up on (or one to pick it all up if you are Bill), without writing it off as being too much of a tribute to anyone in particular. And as a combination, arguably sounding unique enough in its own right. And covering enough, that anyone else trying the same will sound like they have just copied this, rather than similarly borrowed from the source material.
I now get some of Rob's comments about uk indie bands a bit more. And while Radiohead have no doubt launched or at least influenced the careers of many, they have also fucking ruined it for a whole lot. Because they will always be tainted with comparisons to them.
For example I thought (and still do) he was miles off when he described orlando weeks' vocals as 'generic'. They are anything but. However, I can see if Radiohead is your go-to baseline for uk indie, why that comparison might be a touch inevitable.
I will carry on when I have more, a piecemeal review of sorts.
A bit like this album!
threespires
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All music is derivative of some other music and OK Computer is. I hear elements of certain records from the past cleverly melded into their songs. I must admit to jealousy, as a part time musician and wannabe songwriter (who has sold 400...YES 400 :)) albums. I wish I'd come up with the songs, musical ideas and the harmonically expansive big sellers they did.
I've always thought there is something about Radiohead is extremely British, you can almost hear the Britishness, a sense of gloomy foreboding, an unease of societal issues, the everlasting misery of the climate is inherent, :) and it extols that cold, forever cloudy greyness one grows up with in the long winters. Ray Davies was always very good at this in some of his British flavoured songs like "Dead End Street" & "Shangri-La"
I can tell you first hand ....It's hard to be this miserable in a sunshiny blue sky country !
I see OK Computer as an important album, a much more musically sophisticated album that say, anything by other popular bands of the time, like Oasis for example. Surely there would be no Muse if there hadn't been Radiohead?
Unusual chord sequences and time signatures. The albums longest track "Paranoid Android" seems to me to owe it's formula to The Beatles "Happiness Is A Warm Gun". Not in a sense of melody or even chord structure but more in a sense of 3 (even 4) differing passages that feel as if they belong together. Not many bands seem to be able to fit this many completely disparate components into 1 song. I remember buying The Beatles White Album and thinking that.
Another big nod to The White Album (Specifically the track "Sexy Sadie") comes in the copied chord sequence and direct feel in the track "Karma Police" "This is what you'll get" refrain, melodically slightly different but harmonically exactly the same. I must admit I copped that first time I heard it :)
An inordinate amount of care was taken over the recording of this album, any fool can tell that! Delay & reverb were carefully selected, and I believe natural reverb was used largely in some manor house that probably one of their parents owned :)
I've worked out the harmony structures for all this album and can confirm there are many what I call "deep dives" where the music is kinda tootling along then suddenly - Wham! another atonal heavy guitar laden onslaught down the the minor 3rd chord from the more optimistic major root key. Like in "Sexy Sadie" G-F# (happyish) then Bminor, (hang on, something serious is happening) also plenty of 9th and diminished chord tones .....They do this quite a bit and I must admit it's very effective.
Anyway, I hear a lot of Miles Davis "Bitches Brew" period with the thick sonic layering and unusual appearance of instruments, like the sudden appearance of a tasteful Bass guitar halfway through the verse of "Airbag" and then it suddenly disappears, then re-appears later. Nice touch.
That heavy guitar in "Airbag" is very King Crimsonesque especially their song "Fallen Angel" in fact I think Crimson are a big influence RH, you can hear at the beginning of "Airbag" the distorted guitar doubled up with a cello (an old Crimson thing).
What RH achieved though was similar to Pink Floyd, commercial sales with music that has unusual disparate elements (especially time signatures), Crimson never achieved mainstream popularity like Floyd (and RH) did.
It's an important album though and I really like it. They do borrow but the sound of Radiohead is pretty unique and their sound is their own, this sound was something fresh in the 90's. I personally think "Paranoid Android" is the most inventive and interesting single since "Strawberry Fields Forever" but that's just my opinion and I don't expect anybody to agree with me :)
There are some albums that I think of as representative of that decade (for me) "Dark Side Of The Moon" 70's, Sgt Pepper 60's. "Thriller" 80's..... OK Computer imo is the album of the 90s and a fine phsyc/art rock album it is.
Well done Radiohead, a genuine classic, I'll go for 8/10
Great review with loads of interesting points, some unarguable and others I disagree about but you've also unlocked one of the reasons for the lack of leeway I give this which was staring me in the face but I hadn't joined the dots. One of your points I thought "nice theory but I'm sure I'll think of some counter examples whilst I'm on the bog" but I haven't yet.
Your comment about your units sold has also given me a strategy to try and prise more info out of @Coatigan about his endeavours by offering an information trade about the one album I've played on :-) - (I think I just like people and am interested in them, but others misunderstand me and refer to me as a nosey bastard).
Anyway, I've got to head off and we're all in for a big day. Irrespective of today's outcome my days of things getting messy after big games are fortunately(?) long behind me so I'll be back hopefully tomorrow to witter on more about this.
Brill to see you and Sadd's back on here, so much so I might even bump my score a point!!!
Great review with loads of interesting points, some unarguable and others I disagree about but you've also unlocked one of the reasons for the lack of leeway I give this which was staring me in the face but I hadn't joined the dots. One of your points I thought "nice theory but I'm sure I'll think of some counter examples whilst I'm on the bog" but I haven't yet.
Your comment about your units sold has also given me a strategy to try and prise more info out of @Coatigan about his endeavours by offering an information trade about the one album I've played on :-) - (I think I just like people and am interested in them, but others misunderstand me and refer to me as a nosey bastard).
Anyway, I've got to head off and we're all in for a big day. Irrespective of today's outcome my days of things getting messy after big games are fortunately(?) long behind me so I'll be back hopefully tomorrow to witter on more about this.
Brill to see you and Sadd's back on here, so much so I might even bump my score a point!!!
You know, I think I have for a while been convinced you have some level of musicianship or involvement with music. I think I can validate that now.
Bigger things coming today though, you are right.
threespires
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You know, I think I have for a while been convinced you have some level of musicianship or involvement with music. I think I can validate that now.
Bigger things coming today though, you are right.
I wouldn't quite go that far, if I told you that years ago I went in the garage to find the one copy I still had, only to find the sleeve was covered in mouse piss and faeces. After some very mild upset, I thought fair play as a critique by the mice.
Anyway time to go, see you on the other side blue boys (and girls).
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RobMCFC
Well-Known Member
I’ll be disagreeing about the production in my review and have the evidence to prove it, albeit the producer had a far more talented artist to work with :)Hear, hear to both.
Re. the production, as previously stated I'm on the side of the supposed angels on this, in that I think it's hard to argue against it's qualities and id already costed that in.
I have to accept, obvious at one level though it might be, you've played a blinder here Rob and delivered a really vibrant week. No pressure on whoever's next!
When do you need to get the review of this in Rob? I am probably going to be otherwise engaged the next couple of days :-).
I have enjoyed this week and will return gladly based on one solemn condition.
That foggy never ever ever ever compares her highness Kate Bush to Barry fucking Manilow again. That is my one and only request.
Changeover is Wednesday afternoon so have your Radiohead review on before lunch on that day.
If you want to write-up a nomination for this round, your slot will be 5th June, but be ready for 29th May in case of no-shows.
Bill Walker
Well-Known Member
Roger thinks Thom is a self obsessed narcissistic drippy little prick Hahaha
As I posted initially I came at this quite fresh, not owning nor having ever listened to a whole RH album. I suppose I showed how uncultured I am by actually quite liking Creep.
Airbag.......Got a slight eastern vibe but found Yorke's plaintive bleating didn't do anything for me. I am currently in the middle of Peter Hook's "Substance", so did find myself listening out for the bass a little more which I thought was perhaps the best thing on this one.
Paranoid Android....... Quite liked the song building but once again got lost by the lyrics and vocals
Subterranean....... It was a No, once again.
Exit Music....... Someone previously mentioned Gregorian Chants and for a minute I thought that this was going that way. Also for some reason had ideas that Thom was as tortured and individual as Matt Bellamy but this track just missing out on that Grandeur that Muse would have given this.
Let Down..... Nothing moved me in this and I lamented the fact that I no longer possess a baggy old cardigan to sway wear whilst swaying my arms to this track.
Karma Police..... I think the only track besides Creep that I had actually heard before and thought was half decent
Fitter Happier..... Benni Benassi did it better, or maybe that was the video
Electioneering..... Thought Last Train to Clarkesville was better. Once again just didn't like the vocals
Climbing UP The Walls..... Quite liked the build in the song but not much else.
No Surprises..... Went back to thinking whether Matt Bellamy would have done this better.
Lucky....... Just sort of washed over me by the time I got here
The Tourist.... Just thought they were perhaps trying to be Pink Floyd.
It has been repeated numerous times with so many nominations, that music speaks to a time and a place. Linking things that mean something to us all. Sadly in this case, having not listened to this previously I don't have that, as there is nothing joyous or memorable about listening to this stuck at work these last few nights. Without those connections I'm afraid that it doesn't really do that much for me and I wonder if there is an element of the Emperors new clothes here. Everyone says it is amazing so it must be????
I compared it against other "classic albums" most notably "Astral Weeks" and noted that there was nothing like the reaction to some of the low scores and naysayers then, as to now.
Overall it didn't really do anything for me and I won't be revisiting this. I honestly don't think I have missed anything by waiting until now to give this a listen. I would therefore rank it alongside my previous lowest scoring selection, PJ/Ten.....and its a 4 from the Derry jury.
And of course none of you lot will be reading this until the coffee has kicked in later and your hangovers are a little more manageable...Congrats to City once again and thanks to @Black&White&BlueMoon Town for your thoughts.
.....And as a published author myself (all of 150 copies sold and a Blue Peter badge to show for it) I can appreciate the harshness of critics.
Airbag.......Got a slight eastern vibe but found Yorke's plaintive bleating didn't do anything for me. I am currently in the middle of Peter Hook's "Substance", so did find myself listening out for the bass a little more which I thought was perhaps the best thing on this one.
Paranoid Android....... Quite liked the song building but once again got lost by the lyrics and vocals
Subterranean....... It was a No, once again.
Exit Music....... Someone previously mentioned Gregorian Chants and for a minute I thought that this was going that way. Also for some reason had ideas that Thom was as tortured and individual as Matt Bellamy but this track just missing out on that Grandeur that Muse would have given this.
Let Down..... Nothing moved me in this and I lamented the fact that I no longer possess a baggy old cardigan to sway wear whilst swaying my arms to this track.
Karma Police..... I think the only track besides Creep that I had actually heard before and thought was half decent
Fitter Happier..... Benni Benassi did it better, or maybe that was the video
Electioneering..... Thought Last Train to Clarkesville was better. Once again just didn't like the vocals
Climbing UP The Walls..... Quite liked the build in the song but not much else.
No Surprises..... Went back to thinking whether Matt Bellamy would have done this better.
Lucky....... Just sort of washed over me by the time I got here
The Tourist.... Just thought they were perhaps trying to be Pink Floyd.
It has been repeated numerous times with so many nominations, that music speaks to a time and a place. Linking things that mean something to us all. Sadly in this case, having not listened to this previously I don't have that, as there is nothing joyous or memorable about listening to this stuck at work these last few nights. Without those connections I'm afraid that it doesn't really do that much for me and I wonder if there is an element of the Emperors new clothes here. Everyone says it is amazing so it must be????
I compared it against other "classic albums" most notably "Astral Weeks" and noted that there was nothing like the reaction to some of the low scores and naysayers then, as to now.
Overall it didn't really do anything for me and I won't be revisiting this. I honestly don't think I have missed anything by waiting until now to give this a listen. I would therefore rank it alongside my previous lowest scoring selection, PJ/Ten.....and its a 4 from the Derry jury.
And of course none of you lot will be reading this until the coffee has kicked in later and your hangovers are a little more manageable...Congrats to City once again and thanks to @Black&White&BlueMoon Town for your thoughts.
.....And as a published author myself (all of 150 copies sold and a Blue Peter badge to show for it) I can appreciate the harshness of critics.