The Boxing thread

Fat Chance said:
Any champion who cant lay a glove on a smiling opponent will be in bad shape in thier career, biting iron mike and no mas roberto will lay testament to that. Though once their range is found with a more suitable opponent then their shape returns, least that's what history tells us.
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From the BBC on the fight with AJ.

"He looked a different fighter to the one beaten by Fury, and markedly better than in his latest points win over Bryant Jennings, but the size of his task was huge.

He was the underdog with bookmakers, with only George Foreman having won a recognised world title past the age of 40."

You can talk up Fury all you like but he beat an old and out of shape Klitschko and Wilder was poor in both fights. Beyond that he has beaten a load of Bums.
 
Paddypower had klitch betting fave with hrs to fight.....
Lennox Lewis: "I don't see where Tyson Fury has boxed anybody of Wladimir's calibre to be able to get in the ring with Wladimir and do well.
Klitsh fight pre fury he didnt break sweat
 
Gaudion M said:
I think we are all agreeing that the quality of heavyweight fighters has tailed off over the last 20 years. The last era of greats was Tyson / Holyfield / Lewis who all had numerous massive title fights. Lewis beat an old M Tyson toward the end of his career 2002 ish having had 3 massive fights with Holyfield who had in turn beaten prime Tyson - they all had their moments of brilliance and you can trace back through great fighters fighting each other from that era backwards. From when the Klischkos domination started there has been nothing comparable. The Klitschkos beat practically everyone in front of them but it was nothing like the kind of stand out brawls with greats v's greats of the previous eras.

TF beating WK and AJ beating Wk does not compare - he was old then. TF beating Wilder does not compare - Wilder is not a great fighter. I dont see any sign of things changing - unless AJ and TF fight each other fairly soon.
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the 3 you mention Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield were in their primes great champions but at the times they met both Holyfield and Tyson were past their best
People may rate Holyfield and Lewis over Tyson because they beat him but Tyson was a ghost of his former self
My feeling is all at the best it’s 60/40 in his favour ( I can still see how a case is made for a Holyfield win )
But I think I 86-89 Rooney Trained Tyson knocks Lewis out



if nothing this Fury fight has got people talking about heavyweight boxing :)
 
bluemc1 said:
the 3 you mention Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield were in their primes great champions but at the times they met both Holyfield and Tyson were past their best
People may rate Holyfield and Lewis over Tyson because they beat him but Tyson was a ghost of his former self
My feeling is all at the best it’s 60/40 in his favour ( I can still see how a case is made for a Holyfield win )
But I think I 86-89 Rooney Trained Tyson knocks Lewis out



if nothing this Fury fight has got people talking about heavyweight boxing :)
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Agree - i guess my point was those 3 greats were at there best around 85 to 2000. A 15 year span with loads of great fights / fighters. From Lewis retiring to now I can't think of many great heavyweight title fights - and i include all of Tyson Fury's fights in that assessment.
 
Tyson was unbeatable in his prime, the best ever IMO. Then he fell to bits with his wife Robin whatever eating him from the inside his mentor dying and people twisting him all ways but up. He went all Islamic and talking about eating babies in the same breath, a complete fruitcake but as I said, what a boxer.
 
mexico1970 said:
Tyson was unbeatable in his prime, the best ever IMO. Then he fell to bits with his wife Robin whatever eating him from the inside his mentor dying and people twisting him all ways but up. He went all Islamic and talking about eating babies in the same breath, a complete fruitcake but as I said, what a boxer.
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i think Ali beats Tyson, wouldn’t be scared and much more mentally strong, Tyson get frustrated and stopped on his feet in 11 with both eyes shut
My verdict:)

what I do argue is when people debating this say that foreman punched as hard as Tyson and was just as intimidating at the time, I don’t believe in a million years Ali’s rope a dope would’ve worked v a PRIME Tyson. Tyson’s speed, variety and power in either hand would’ve made sitting on the ropes impossible
 
mexico1970 said:
Tyson was unbeatable in his prime, the best ever IMO. Then he fell to bits with his wife Robin whatever eating him from the inside his mentor dying and people twisting him all ways but up. He went all Islamic and talking about eating babies in the same breath, a complete fruitcake but as I said, what a boxer.
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He was real box office too. Always watched his fights. Cus D'amato passing away and that woman visiting his room at 3 in the morning for tiffin really fucked him up. He really went off the rails after that rape conviction which many people including me was trumped up to get compo
 
bluemc1 said:
i think Ali beats Tyson, wouldn’t be scared and much more mentally strong, Tyson get frustrated and stopped on his feet in 11 with both eyes shut
My verdict:)

what I do argue is when people debating this say that foreman punched as hard as Tyson and was just as intimidating at the time, I don’t believe in a million years Ali’s rope a dope would’ve worked v a PRIME Tyson. Tyson’s speed, variety and power in either hand would’ve made sitting on the ropes impossible
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Foremans power was in his uppercut (only), leaning back off the ropes negates said uppercut.
Ali predicted 10th rd stoppage v tyson when askedhow he'd fight him, 6 month prior to douglas stopping him in the tenth. Any opponent not scared of iron mike beat him, douglas employed the olde lead foot slap/dummy that kirkland laing used to defeat duran...a simple trick to undo a matchppwer fighter....like fury says heavys are shit
 
I don't think anyone is daft enough to compare today's heavyweight scene vs the 60s and 70s. Regarding Ali, people forget that he was exiled for 4 years in what would have been his prime years. So you can't make that excuse for Tyson and not Ali, for not seeing their absolute peak. I've never considered Tyson the best heavyweight personally, maybe the most entertaining at his best but that was more because he was an animal in the ring. He made boxing mainstream again and his legacy will live on, long after he's gone though, which is a testament of his greatness.

As for today, the top 10 has some good fighters in it currently. Outside of that it might not be so great for the most part. It's not comparable to the golden era but it's better than it has been for a long time.

https://www.ringtv.com/ratings/?weightclass=272

I really don't understand how Ortiz has such a high ranking though. The only times he faced a top ranked fighter he got beat, twice. I'd place him down near the bottom of that list personally. It's about time Kownacki faced one of the top guys, but he's a PBC fighter, so I wouldn't hold my breath. There are some other fighters not in that top 10 worth mentioning too, Usyk and Dubois obviously. I'm also hearing good things about Hrgovic and Tony Yoka. Some are hoping for Joe Joyce to break into the top 10 mix too.

It's not nearly as bad as some make out. What is true, is not enough of them are facing each other and the networks and the promotional/management companies play a part in that(PBC especially).
 
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Gaudion M said:
Agree - i guess my point was those 3 greats were at there best around 85 to 2000. A 15 year span with loads of great fights / fighters. From Lewis retiring to now I can't think of many great heavyweight title fights - and i include all of Tyson Fury's fights in that assessment.
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Agree with that
 
Just seen some slowed down highlights of the Fury Wilder rematch and it shows Fury’s knuckle area of the glove ( the main padded area ) flapping about loose when he was punching and showing how Fury had put his fist where the palm is

it’s doing the rounds so should be able to see it if you like
 
bluemc1 said:
Just seen some slowed down highlights of the Fury Wilder rematch and it shows Fury’s knuckle area of the glove ( the main padded area ) flapping about loose when he was punching and showing how Fury had put his fist where the palm is

it’s doing the rounds so should be able to see it if you like
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Are you sure the footage is from the rematch? I got linked to a video before claiming about this and the footage was from the first fight where Fury had "Pillows for fists"
 
ell said:
Are you sure the footage is from the rematch? I got linked to a video before claiming about this and the footage was from the first fight where Fury had "Pillows for fists"
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You’re right, I went to look at some more footage and saw Wilder had Black gloves on in rematch and they are Gold on the clip
Must be the first fight
 
bluemc1 said:
You’re right, I went to look at some more footage and saw Wilder had Black gloves on in rematch and they are Gold on the clip
Must be the first fight
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Think its just more sore arse crying from Wilders lot, the ref also checks the gloves when the fighter gets in the ring so it would mean he is part of a conspiracy theory too. But that said it does go on, see Margarito with his plaster cast and even Canelo stacking his wraps. There was a great article about gloves and the padding in boxing news about two weeks ago, it might be online now.
 
ell said:
Think its just more sore arse crying from Wilders lot, the ref also checks the gloves when the fighter gets in the ring so it would mean he is part of a conspiracy theory too. But that said it does go on, see Margarito with his plaster cast and even Canelo stacking his wraps. There was a great article about gloves and the padding in boxing news about two weeks ago, it might be online now.
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It's an issue that raises it's head a lot. It could easily be put to bed by enforcing tighter rules and controls and having better refs / more transparency etc. But this is Boxing right, none of that will be done. They will carry on muddling along.
 
The gloves don't even go home with the fighters either, they are approved by the sanctioning bodies and then they keep them before and after the fight as far as I'm aware. This is what Wilder fans are like though, because they don't know what they are talking about, they self destruct with their own arguments, time and time again.

We also have the fact that Wilder is claiming Fury didn't hurt him, his legs were just gone before he got in the ring because of the costume weight, is the excuse they've gone with.

If they wanted to make a conspiracy, it should have been the wraps. However I think these days even those are both inspected before the gloves go on by the commission and handed to them after the fight and placed in sealed bags(certainly stated in the WBC rules). Also both teams overlooked the wraps being done on their opponent before the fight. If the wraps have been overlooked, you can be pretty sure it's a bullshit claim these days(unless it's called out before the fight), after Margarito got caught out. As was the stacking Canelo claim IMO because they were stood watching(needle marks too, bullshit claim), the tape Canelo was using was not plain white either but black and white(that was the only tape seen in the footage) which would make it easy to distinguish between gauze and tape.

Plus most people are unaware, it's not even against Nevada rules because the advantage it gives is not as severe as plaster wraps. I'm pretty sure in Vegas fights, if a team complains, the ref will just ask the wraps to be redone, just so everybody is happy. Lots of fighters have done it but it's easy to spot and it's down to your own team to call it out at the end of the day. That's the one job the guy watching the wraps has. Stacking is less to do with the thickness of the wraps, than it is to do with layering gauze ontop of the surgical tape. The amount of gauze allowed depends on which belt you are fighting for, it can range from 10-20 yards, with typically 8 feet of tape allowed. Using the full amount is not deemed necessary by most experts(they permit more than you need), a thicker wrap would be more of a choice of extra protection(for a damaged part of the hand) than to give any advantage.

 
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Metalartin said:
The gloves don't even go home with the fighters either, they are approved by the sanctioning bodies and then they keep them before and after the fight as far as I'm aware. This is what Wilder fans are like though, because they don't know what they are talking about, they self destruct with their own arguments, time and time again.

We also have the fact that Wilder is claiming Fury didn't hurt him, his legs were just gone before he got in the ring because of the costume weight, is the excuse they've gone with.

If they wanted to make a conspiracy, it should have been the wraps, which the fighters do get to keep. However both teams overlooked the wraps being done on their opponent before the fight. If the wraps have been overlooked, you can be pretty sure it's a bullshit claim these days(unless it's called out before the fight, instead of an excuse after), after Margarito got caught out. As was the stacking Canelo claim IMO because they were stood watching(needle marks too, bullshit claim by sore losers), plus most are unaware, it's not even against Nevada rules anyway because the advantage it gives is nothing like plaster wraps. Lots of fighters have done it but it's easy to spot and it's down to your own team to call it out at the end of the day, if you think it's that much of an advantage(I suppose it would have to be in the contract for Vegas fights). That's the one job the guy watching the wraps has. Stacking is less to do with the thickness of the wraps, than it is to do with layering gauze ontop of the surgical tape.

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Regarding the gloves, years ago Billy Collins fought a kid called Luis Resto. Collins got busted up bad, at the end of the fight his corner checked Restos gloves and realised his team had removed padding so he was landing concrete punches. Think he was banned for some time.

Theres a clip of Freddie Rosch setting his stall out before doing the wraps, cant remember the fighter but an interesting watch.
 
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