The Boxing thread

[Txiki Vimto]

This just made me laugh.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwrHC-zecV0[/youtube]

Bare in mind there's 80k+ in the crowd the commentator says: "Joe Humphreys, one of the greatest ring announcers of all time. He won't use the loud speaker system, he says thats for sissies.' (22 seconds).

 

[Santiago Street]

Any of you lads box ?

As long as you aren't too good you might earn a few quid in September, Floyd COWARD Mayweather won't fight the winner of Trout/Canelo presumably on the basis that they would stand a chance of beating him so throw your name into the hat - you'll probably be a more credible opponent than whomever he ends up fighting

 

[Combat Carl]

Any of you lads box ?

As long as you aren't too good you might earn a few quid in September, Floyd COWARD Mayweather won't fight the winner of Trout/Canelo presumably on the basis that they would stand a chance of beating him so throw your name into the hat - you'll probably be a more credible opponent than whomever he ends up fighting

He's fighting Guerrero, a four weight world champion for his next fight, Floyd says he's 100 % committed to this fight and won't look to Canelo or Trout till after this fight. Name one fighter who Floyd has ducked?

 

[Santiago Street]

Any of you lads box ?

As long as you aren't too good you might earn a few quid in September, Floyd COWARD Mayweather won't fight the winner of Trout/Canelo presumably on the basis that they would stand a chance of beating him so throw your name into the hat - you'll probably be a more credible opponent than whomever he ends up fighting

He's fighting Guerrero, a four weight world champion for his next fight, Floyd says he's 100 % committed to this fight and won't look to Canelo or Trout till after this fight. Name one fighter who Floyd has ducked?

It's not as black and white as that though. Extend your question to which fighters in their prime or at their normal weight Floyd has ducked and it's a long list. Guerrero won't give him half as much trouble as any of these guys would have done were they given the opportunity imo.

Paul Williams

Vernon Forrest

Sugar Shane

Cotto

Margarito

Pacman

Martinez

Guerrero can't hurt Floyd. He's an overmatched lightweight at best who's fought nobody serious at 147 and he gets cherry picked for his style and lack of concussive power in front of guys like JMM or Pacman or Martinez or Canelo.

He gives boxing a bad name

 

[bluemc1]

Any of you lads box ?

As long as you aren't too good you might earn a few quid in September, Floyd COWARD Mayweather won't fight the winner of Trout/Canelo presumably on the basis that they would stand a chance of beating him so throw your name into the hat - you'll probably be a more credible opponent than whomever he ends up fighting

He's fighting Guerrero, a four weight world champion for his next fight, Floyd says he's 100 % committed to this fight and won't look to Canelo or Trout till after this fight. Name one fighter who Floyd has ducked?

It's not as black and white as that though. Extend your question to which fighters in their prime or at their normal weight Floyd has ducked and it's a long list. Guerrero won't give him half as much trouble as any of these guys would have done were they given the opportunity imo.

Paul Williams

Vernon Forrest

Sugar Shane

Cotto

Margarito

Pacman

Martinez

Guerrero can't hurt Floyd. He's an overmatched lightweight at best who's fought nobody serious at 147 and he gets cherry picked for his style and lack of concussive power in front of guys like JMM or Pacman or Martinez or Canelo.

He gives boxing a bad name

when he fought Corrales he was undefeated and knocking everone he faced out, before they boxed the bookies had them at both at 5/6 i know this as i backed mayweather and he gave him a boxing lesson, also Manfredy, please look no further than the only man to make JMM someone you mention like a club fighter<br /><br />-- Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:09 pm --<br /><br />

He's fighting Guerrero, a four weight world champion for his next fight, Floyd says he's 100 % committed to this fight and won't look to Canelo or Trout till after this fight. Name one fighter who Floyd has ducked?

It's not as black and white as that though. Extend your question to which fighters in their prime or at their normal weight Floyd has ducked and it's a long list. Guerrero won't give him half as much trouble as any of these guys would have done were they given the opportunity imo.

Paul Williams

Vernon Forrest

Sugar Shane

Cotto

Margarito

Pacman

Martinez

Guerrero can't hurt Floyd. He's an overmatched lightweight at best who's fought nobody serious at 147 and he gets cherry picked for his style and lack of concussive power in front of guys like JMM or Pacman or Martinez or Canelo.

He gives boxing a bad name

when he fought Corrales he was undefeated and knocking everone he faced out, before they boxed the bookies had them at both at 5/6 i know this as i backed mayweather and he gave him a boxing lesson, also Manfredy, please look no further than the only man to make JMM someone you mention like a club fighter

also everyone on your list has lost to fighters they were expected to beat, Mayweather hasn't .

 

[conormcfc]

also everyone on your list has lost to fighters they were expected to beat, Mayweather hasn't .

All the greats have. It's called taking on live threats.

Don't fight the best, don't lose. Is Sven Ottke the greatest super-middleweight of all time?

 

[bluemc1]

also everyone on your list has lost to fighters they were expected to beat, Mayweather hasn't .

All the greats have. It's called taking on live threats.

Don't fight the best, don't lose. Is Sven Ottke the greatest super-middleweight of all time?

Nope but he never fought Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, Castillo, Gatti, Judah, De La hoya, Hatton, JMM, Mosley, Cotto....... i think history will say they were all live threats,

 

[conormcfc]

also everyone on your list has lost to fighters they were expected to beat, Mayweather hasn't .

All the greats have. It's called taking on live threats.

Don't fight the best, don't lose. Is Sven Ottke the greatest super-middleweight of all time?

Nope but he never fought Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, Castillo, Gatti, Judah, De La hoya, Hatton, JMM, Mosley, Cotto....... i think history will say they were all live threats,

The only live threats there are Corrales, Castillo and possibly Mosley which I would give him credit for as Mosley was coming off the Margarito win and was a genuine top 2 welterweight at the time. Floyd was a beast at featherweight/lightweight, I wouldn't argue that, but in the last 8/9 or so years he has avoided a lot of the threats.

The rest are either 'decent' wins (Gatti/Judah/Cotto), fighters on their last legs (De La Hoya), a fighter who was never a threat in Hatton (put Baldomir in here too), or someone who had to go up 17 pounds in weight from his previous fight in JMM.

A decent resume, nothing worthy of the greats. Even if you compare his resume to other top fighters from his generation (De La Hoya, Mosley, Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins, Jones Jr). To be great you fight the greats, that resume isn't the makings of great legacy.<br /><br />-- 28 Feb 2013, 21:54 --<br /><br />It really isn't even a debate that needs to be had, considering the fact that every time he has been questioned about his inability to fight the best, his response has always been something along the lines of:

"Legacy don't pay the bills"

He willfully acknowledges that he isn't arsed about becoming an all time great.

 

[bluemc1]

All the greats have. It's called taking on live threats.

Don't fight the best, don't lose. Is Sven Ottke the greatest super-middleweight of all time?

Nope but he never fought Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, Castillo, Gatti, Judah, De La hoya, Hatton, JMM, Mosley, Cotto....... i think history will say they were all live threats,

The only live threats there are Corrales, Castillo and possibly Mosley which I would give him credit for as Mosley was coming off the Margarito win and was a genuine top 2 welterweight at the time. Floyd was a beast at featherweight/lightweight, I wouldn't argue that, but in the last 8/9 or so years he has avoided a lot of the threats.

The rest are either 'decent' wins (Gatti/Judah/Cotto), fighters on their last legs (De La Hoya), a fighter who was never a threat in Hatton (put Baldomir in here too), or someone who had to go up 17 pounds in weight from his previous fight in JMM.

A decent resume, nothing worthy of the greats. Even if you compare his resume to other top fighters from his generation (De La Hoya, Mosley, Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins, Jones Jr). To be great you fight the greats, that resume isn't the makings of great legacy.

who is it you would of wanted him to fight that he didn't and what do you think the outcome of that fight would of been, i know written words can sound like an argument so ill just say its a genuine question, for me the most obvious one is Manny and just look at their showings v JMM don't think Mayweather had to get out of second gear to beat him,
think of my list only Gatti wasn't a top 20 P4P fighter when he beat them

 

[conormcfc]

who is it you would of wanted him to fight that he didn't and what do you think the outcome of that fight would of been, i know written words can sound like an argument so ill just say its a genuine question, for me the most obvious one is Manny and just look at their showings v JMM don't think Mayweather had to get out of second gear to beat him,
think of my list only Gatti wasn't a top 20 P4P fighter when he beat them

It would be most of the guys Santiago listed (Cotto fight should've happened 4 years earlier, Mosley 7/8 years earlier, Pacquiao 3/4 years ago.) The point is that is doesn't matter how we THINK the fight would have gone, the point is that he never fought them and PROVED how great he was.

If Sugar Ray Leonard had avoided Duran, Hagler and Hearns would he be as great? People woud've probably favoured SRL on paper, but if he didn't fight them, he doesn't have the legacy. Same thing with Floyd. On PAPER he beats most, but being a great fighter on paper isn't that difficult is it?

If Foreman had never fought Ali, people like you would just say:

"Well look at how many problems Ali had with Frazier, did Foreman even have to get out of 1st gear to beat Frazier? Foreman would batter Ali, Foreman is better than Ali".

Doesn't work like that does it, you fight them and you prove your greatness. Which is why Floyd won't be up there with the greats when all is said and done.

 

[Santiago Street]

From my list I think only Shane, Forrest, Margarito and Cotto would've taken him into the trenches and I couldn't say who would've won. I don't think Canelo will be at his level for maybe 2 years yet and I don't think Martinez would get near him - but the fact that they have some of the tools to trouble him creates a little seed of doubt in Floyd's mind so he walks on by

If I had to put my house on it I probably would've backed Floyd against anyone on my list but that's not the point. The point is we'll never know and while no boxer is obliged to do any more than earn money, the vast majority of the great ones want to find out their place in the pantheon so they fight other great ones to find out.

His unwillingness to do so reflects a flaw in his mentality - self doubt - that shouldn't be in a champ's make up.

 

[conormcfc]

If I had to put my house on it I probably would've backed Floyd against anyone on my list but that's not the point. The point is we'll never know and while no boxer is obliged to do any more than earn money, the vast majority of the great ones want to find out their place in the pantheon so they fight other great ones to find out.

Exactly the point I'm making and all that needs to said about it.

 

[conormcfc]

16:15
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qt89xHHKYY[/youtube]
"Legacy don't pay bills."

1:30
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-5_8af3TiY[/youtube]
"I'ma show you how great I am."

 

[leighton]

The Money debate will go on and on and on and on. Technically Money is the best I have seen box. A great boxer no body cant say this about him no matter what.

His record well theres a great debate in that. He has boxed Gatti who was always a big hitter a live treat and KO'd him or retired him. Beating Ricky Hatton was another good fight. 2 fighters at there peak. Then to retire and in your first fight back to take on Marquez and win wide on the cards was some classy boxing by Money. I thought he would of been in for a hard fight after being out so long. Was a tricky fight.

Yes of course there would of been fights we were robbed of seeing. IF and its a IF we could of seen Money in with Prince Naz and Koysta Tszyu as well as Pacman. In the early years and its a shame it didnt happen. Think a prime Koysta Tszyu would of had a bit too much for Money it was just a shame that in the latter years he was so injury prone. Hatton got him at the right time and beat him. No where near the Tszyu of late 90s and early 00s were he was koing everyone in his way. That was the fight I wanted to see the most. In those early years.

Dont forget back then Pacman was fighting the Morales and Barrera and Marquezs during that time so a fight with him back then would never had happen because those fights back then took a lot out of each fighter when they boxed.

Put it this way with Money he is slowly starting to show a weakness now and with this new deal we are going to see him get tested big time. The winner of the Canelo v Trout fight will be next in line to fight him so even if it is late he is going to be fighting some big hungry young fighters hoping for nothing better than to take Moneys O off him.

 

[bluemc1]

From my list I think only Shane, Forrest, Margarito and Cotto would've taken him into the trenches and I couldn't say who would've won. I don't think Canelo will be at his level for maybe 2 years yet and I don't think Martinez would get near him - but the fact that they have some of the tools to trouble him creates a little seed of doubt in Floyd's mind so he walks on by

If I had to put my house on it I probably would've backed Floyd against anyone on my list but that's not the point. The point is we'll never know and while no boxer is obliged to do any more than earn money, the vast majority of the great ones want to find out their place in the pantheon so they fight other great ones to find out.

His unwillingness to do so reflects a flaw in his mentality - self doubt - that shouldn't be in a champ's make up.

im fine if people dont want to say he's a great its just people go overboard calling him, is there a active fighter with a stronger list of elite fighters, maybe Pac and Froch MAYBE, so for me the boxer with the best record being called a joke to boxing seems silly,
you said his next opponent cherry picked over others fighters and named JMM as one of these well he's already fought him and not lost a round who would want to see that again ? its things like this that make me think people will say anything to call him,
i just feel that to have fought the level of fighters and punchers he has to have never been beaten never been dropped and in some cases not got out of 2nd gear we should just accept we have an awesome fighter who im sure would of given ANY fighter in history a real fight
as for self doubt imo thats not the case and feel he is telling the truth when he says he thinks could beat any fighter out their

 

[leighton]

George Groves to sign a Matchroom contract and be on the undercard of the Froch v Kesslier card is the rumour going around. Also hearing that Kevin Mitchell will also sign a deal with Matchroom leaving Warren for the Hearns.

 

[badmash]

My mate won his 6th pro fight the other night
1st round K.O

Jimmy Kelly Jnr

 

[shevtheblue]

George Groves to sign a Matchroom contract and be on the undercard of the Froch v Kesslier card is the rumour going around. Also hearing that Kevin Mitchell will also sign a deal with Matchroom leaving Warren for the Hearns.

So another reason why warrens boxing channel is fucked.

 

[leighton]

George Groves to sign a Matchroom contract and be on the undercard of the Froch v Kesslier card is the rumour going around. Also hearing that Kevin Mitchell will also sign a deal with Matchroom leaving Warren for the Hearns.

So another reason why warrens boxing channel is fucked.

Warren is up shit creek at the moment. He aint paying fighters is the rumours I am hearing all the time. Boxnation as a concept wont work in the long term. Who remembers the golf channel??? Now that had so many tournaments each week of the year and that fail and there is more golf fans than boxing fans in my opinion.
Rumours going around that Boxnation are hoping to get a deal with the new BT station who have basically taken over ESPN's UK and Ireland's content. So ESPN by July I think goes off our screens and comes back as BT Sport or whatever they are going to call it. So Warren is hoping that BT Sport will take over Boxnation and basically include it in the BT Sports brand. I think the head of BT Sport worked with Warren setting up Boxnation and got the BT Sports job so dont be shocked if Warren ends up on BT Sport. Saying that by the time that happens he may well lose out on his major fighters. I heard Ricky Burns has been talking to Matchroom sport aswell. So it wouldnt shock me to see the best of the British fighters all fighting on Sky under Matchroom. Look how well they have done with the likes of Brook , Frampton , Bellew , Barker and Froch those 5 fighters and fighting in and headlining big venues with 8000 to 12000 fans at those fights. Other fighters would love to do that regularly under Warren if your not Cleverley or Burns your left behind.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

George Groves to sign a Matchroom contract and be on the undercard of the Froch v Kesslier card is the rumour going around. Also hearing that Kevin Mitchell will also sign a deal with Matchroom leaving Warren for the Hearns.

So another reason why warrens boxing channel is fucked.

Warren is up shit creek at the moment. He aint paying fighters is the rumours I am hearing all the time. Boxnation as a concept wont work in the long term. Who remembers the golf channel??? Now that had so many tournaments each week of the year and that fail and there is more golf fans than boxing fans in my opinion.
Rumours going around that Boxnation are hoping to get a deal with the new BT station who have basically taken over ESPN's UK and Ireland's content. So ESPN by July I think goes off our screens and comes back as BT Sport or whatever they are going to call it. So Warren is hoping that BT Sport will take over Boxnation and basically include it in the BT Sports brand. I think the head of BT Sport worked with Warren setting up Boxnation and got the BT Sports job so dont be shocked if Warren ends up on BT Sport. Saying that by the time that happens he may well lose out on his major fighters. I heard Ricky Burns has been talking to Matchroom sport aswell. So it wouldnt shock me to see the best of the British fighters all fighting on Sky under Matchroom. Look how well they have done with the likes of Brook , Frampton , Bellew , Barker and Froch those 5 fighters and fighting in and headlining big venues with 8000 to 12000 fans at those fights. Other fighters would love to do that regularly under Warren if your not Cleverley or Burns your left behind.

Thought this was a good article. It would seem Warren is in a bit of trouble but of course he has been before.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/01/eddie-hearn-frank-warren