bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Jesus wept - Chris Philp an actual Govt Minister trying to worm out of any blame for Johnson causing the Starmer protests - cringeworthy
The Conservative Party
- Thread starter dave_blue12
- Start date
The problem with the political climate is it seems people don't want cheap gas bills, instead they want a punitive tax regime which punishes major companies. If we implement a windfall tax then any proceeds will be sent to the treasury to be absorbed in the £2 trillion debt that it currently holds, nothing would change.
Either way, such a tax will make things worse because the energy companies will raise prices to account for it and the customer then pays more. It's like if you go to Mcdonalds and order a full fat coke, they add on something like 20p because of the sugar tax. Any tax like this will be regressive and even if it achieved the desired effect it would potentially cost people their jobs too so it's completely self-defeating.
The real thing we need to do is consider energy long term by considering the feasibility of bringing it under national control. This is following the exact same path as the railways for me, transport should of been about transporting people but it became about the best franchise model for train companies. Energy should be for people too, it shouldn't exist to make certain companies richer.
UK drilled gas should be produced and priced for UK customers but right now it's produced under the control of major corporations who predominately operate beyond borders. The reason we can't influence any of this is because we have no control nor influence over these companies. A windfall tax exerts zero control and it's a completely mad idea if you think about it. We pay a company to get our gas and then we tax them for it, it makes no sense.
It makes even less sense when you consider that we have a huge energy resource on our doorstep but because we can't be arsed to get our hands grubby, we outsource it to companies who sell it back to us. It's great for the FTSE of course and that's what I think most people are focussed on, especially the government. It's silly for example to defend Shell's profit last month because most people will hold pension shares in Shell. However, the fact that we have to rely upon Shell or whoever to supply our energy IS actually the problem.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
My comment about the note wasn’t a dig at Labour but rather being ironic that it’s the Tories who have run up huge debts (as you point out later) by adopting what would be considered a largely socialist agenda. The world has turned on its head in that sense. However I think they did absolutely the right thing - which is what pisses me off most about those out there who defrauded the tax payer - that’s you, I and millions of others - with their bogus claims for covid loans and furlough. Utter cunts.
Just a couple of points of clarity. The government didn’t spend £37bn on an app. I think the app was a “mere” £76m if you include the aborted first effort. It’s still a eye watering amount of cash for something so simple so the tax payer has been ripped off here by the companies whom this project was outsourced to. The rest of £36.9bn budget was to fund the people and the system for 2 years. Now we do know that the rental of testing sites and them tent things they had was let’s say a little lively and again this is down to profiteering by unscrupulous firms. I’d like to go back to an earlier point about windfall tax on energy firms - I personally think we should go after people who made a fortune selling PPE and renting out sites and equipment to track and trace, there are probably others providers of “services” as well. Hit them with a 100% excess profit tax - the chancers.
To you second point about politicians who may have uncomfortably close ties with people who were awarded contracts. My starting point here is that the NHS awarded the contracts and I don’t instantly subscribe to the idea that folk are on the take or the VIP lane was a fiddle (but I do think the VIP lane might have influenced decision making) - however if any, and I mean any, possibly conflicts have arisen they need a full and very independent inquiry. Anyone found on the fiddle should serve prison time.
To the state of the country. There are so many things wrong with our system it needs a bit of a rethink. We are a rich country and the reality is the money isn’t always where it needs to be and that’s down to cause and effect. For example there are two policies that I think are being abused by some firms - the minimum wage and working tax credits. Let me explain my thinking;
We have a crazy situation where the likes of a Tesco have posted, over the last decade, profits of between £3.5 and £4.8bn each year. However the shop workers salaries from Tesco have continued to decline in real terms during the same period - which are then being topped up by tax credits - i.e you, I and millions of others are subsiding Tesco profits - it’s mental (and I’m sure there will be a correlation between profit and decline in real term pay). And it’s the same with the other supermarkets. If I was in power they’d be given 6 months to start paying their staff properly or they’ll be subject to a new tax to cover the cost of their staff being topped up and then some for taking the piss. And if they shove up prices as a consequence they’ll also get whacked with a new tax for being cunts - the **** tax I’ll call it - that’s got a certain je ne sais quoi. This then frees up a bit of extra money that the treasury can spend where it’s needed - such as increasing welfare payments - this generates a bit of extra cash in peoples pockets that will be spent locally and maybe our high streets will start to look alive again (cause and effect). Maybe people won’t go to foodbanks as well - on this topic we’ve taken a step back from society looking after society to a combination of society and charity looking after society and that’s not what our system is about or designed to do.
So IMHO we have two policies that are well meaning and indeed great but being abused by big corporations. I’m sure there are plenty of flaws in my thinking/logic but it annoys the shit out of me. Just pay your staff properly and look after them - and make as much money as you like. Of course there are plenty of examples of government wasting money which would be better in peoples pockets but god knows how you fix stupidity when people live in an echo chamber and think £76m for an app is value for money which was undoubtedly outsourced to India and cost a fraction of what the government was charged. I suppose when assessed against avoiding hospital admissions by avoiding infections it provided “value for money” but come on…£76m? for that? fucking lol.
IMHO we need a new political party - because the current lot just think more of the same and move a couple of deck chairs about to make it look like they’ve got new ideas - but our system is is very restrictive to new parties unless you got funds.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
I have made this point for yonks on here - when they go on about benefits scroungers the real one's are people like Tesco but the direction of people is diverted to the unemployed and the infirm. Imagine going to your bank to get a start up loan for your business and saying you expect that wage costs would exceed projected profits but its alright because you a pretty sure someone else will take up the slack !!?? You'd be laughed off the premises. Any business that relies on the tax payer to meet its workers wage needs has a broken business plan and should not be trading
metalblue
Well-Known Member
I think people do want cheap gas. cheap food. cheap holidays. But they also want someone to pay for it and the climate damage - hence why they want a punitive tax to give them cheap gas.
Once upon a time we charged royalties, we then charged supplementary charges on profits at 32%, since 2016 this has fallen to 10%. Giving it away a bit really aren’t we? At least shell are moving their HQ here…will pay more tax as a result, possibly.
I think people forget that the price of gas is not reflective at the moment of demand, it's only reflective of supply. The actual demand has been falling for years and it'll probably fall again this year, especially compared to 2020/2021 where people were locked down at home.
A good reason for this is indeed climate change, today it's 11°C in February. We haven't got the heating on and I don't think we've turned it on for a few days except for an hour or two at night. I don't think the price of consumer gas is a big problem however electricity is going to become extremely expensive and that's a big problem.
The fault of that isn't due to profit guzzling companies, it's because we have chosen an expensive energy mix which relies upon wind without being backed up by a reliable renewable source like nuclear.
Wind is very good at this time of year however when the wind doesn't blow we have to burn more gas to make up the difference because we don't have any other alternative as we don't burn coal anymore (which is cheap). The net result of having to burn more gas at a time when gas is very expensive is your electricity is more expensive.
National Grid: Live
Shows the live status of Great Britain’s electric power transmission network
grid.iamkate.com
metalblue
Well-Known Member
I think people forget that the price of gas is not reflective at the moment of demand, it's only reflective of supply. The actual demand has been falling for years and it'll probably fall again this year, especially compared to 2020/2021 where people were locked down at home.
A good reason for this is indeed climate change, today it's 11°C in February. We haven't got the heating on and I don't think we've turned it on for a few days except for an hour or two at night. I don't think the price of consumer gas is a big problem however electricity is going to become extremely expensive and that's a big problem.
The fault of that isn't due to profit guzzling companies, it's because we have chosen an expensive energy mix which relies upon wind without being backed up by a reliable renewable source like nuclear.
Wind is very good at this time of year however when the wind doesn't blow we have to burn more gas to make up the difference because we don't have any other alternative as we don't burn coal anymore (which is cheap). The net result of having to burn more gas at a time when gas is very expensive is your electricity is more expensive.
National Grid: Live
Shows the live status of Great Britain’s electric power transmission network
I agree we need (or needed) more nuclear power but no one wants one on their doorstep and I don’t blame them either, who would!?!! Renewables is a great source but as you rightly point out we need a reliable back up source of power for when the wind (or whatever) doesn’t blow.
Ultimately I think we all need to look at ourselves and our energy usage. And this is one of my main gripes with green policy - it tells us we can carry on being as wasteful or selfish as always (and I put myself in that category) because our energy will come from wind etc, we can carry on being parasites because some clever sausage will fix it. We can’t because we can’t produce enough as a nation to do so… unless we keep burning fossil fuels or build more nuclear. Maybe one positive outcome from the current cost crisis is people will think a bit more before putting that light bulb on which will create a new normal way of thinking once this current energy cost spike passes (which it will). I’ve already changed my behaviours a little, checking lights haven’t been left on and the such.
O'Brien got it in one today.
In the years since Starmer was DPP when the CPS did not think there was enough evidence to prosecute Jimmy Savile, why is it only now that a mob has accosted him?
M
M
mat
Guest
Sir Lindsey just gave Boris a bollocking in parliament. It was written on paper and it sounded like he didn't want to fuck his peerage up when reading it mind.
I don't think it's going to make too much difference. We all are using more and more electricity and the green change will increase this dependency even more. If you reduce your energy usage by 50% but then the price of energy goes up 50%, you still aren't any better off and neither is the climate if we are still burning gas to cope with that demand.
A lot of people are now buying electric cars but they don't understand that their electric car is actually mostly powered by natural gas. The only reason to buy one at the moment is because petrol is getting more expensive but if electricity goes up in price then it's a double whammy with the far higher price of buying an electric car.
Another example is we have solar panels on our house which do help to reduce bills but at this time of year they are useless. One thing we could do is buy a battery to store the energy they generate in the summer but the batteries are so expensive that the pay off time is longer than the shelf life of the battery.
Technology is unfortunately 10-15 years behind what is needed and who knows how much things will cost by the time it catches up. Either way, we're all in for a world of pain unfortunately. There is no such thing as a cheap, reliable and vast renewable and it's pointless if we are going to burn just as expensive fossil fuels to account for that downfall.