The Conservative Party

[domalino]

Labour are going to need to have a well developed NHS/Healthcare policy platform for next week.

I'm a bit worried how much their lead in the polls is entirely dependent on people hating the tories and not on the feeling that Labour will be better.

They got pretty lucky with the whole Truss/Kwarteng thing because it was so fast moving they were able to keep quiet and no one was asking what their solutions would be (IIRC Gordon Brown is currently researching what Labour's economic policy should be). The BoE ended up being the opposition.

Last weeks immigration mess, and the nurses strike is not going to be the same. They need to have some good policies ready to go to show the difference between the parties and they'll open back up that 30pt lead.

 

[BayernMan]

They have systematically destroyed the very fabric of this nation.

Conservatism has lost its meaning, under Churchill after the defeat to Atlee in 1945 he urged the party to accept the social renewals of the Labour Party and actually embrace them. To be fair One Nation Conservatism did embrace the welfare state and the NHS. They respected these new institutions and to a point built on Atlee's legacy. What followed was the boom years of the 50s and 60s. "Britain has never had it so good" was the mantra espoused in 1957 by the then Tory PM Harold Macmillan who said.

	You will see a state of prosperity such as we have never had in my lifetime - nor indeed in the history of this country	​

Now you can argue why this happened, remember though after WW2 our GDP was running at -256% a figure that today would have the markets in uproar, yet we nationalised industries, created the NHS, Welfare state, built millions of Council houses which surely has to have helped provide the growth we needed. Union power was strong and strong Unions are associated with economic growth. The USA enjoyed its greatest growth when the Unions in the USA were at their most powerful.

Conservatism used to look back at history, it saw that the social cohesion provided by the NHS and the Welfare State was a bulwark against the interests of capital, not anymore. That strand of Conservatism has been slain and the advocates removed from the party on the back of the ERG led Brexit obsession with creating a free-market libertarian utopia. That utopia means nothing is sacred, the NHS is for sale, the Welfare State can be privatised because coin is King.

To achieve this utopia, they are quite prepared to use the language of division, they will happily scapegoat whoever they want, their friends in the media and the multitude of Tufton Street think tanks will defend this approach to the hilt. The modern-day Tory party no longer "conserve" they "disrupt", they aim to destroy institutions rather than conserve them, that scares me.

It's fairly obvious to anyone on here I despise the Tory party, but I always had a grudging admiration of their ability to do the right thing most of the time even if I politically disagreed with them. Now i still despise them but the admiration has gone, they are dangerous, and our country deserves so much better than them.

Dear God.

You could replace Tory for GOP and this would still make sense.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

They have systematically destroyed the very fabric of this nation.

Conservatism has lost its meaning, under Churchill after the defeat to Atlee in 1945 he urged the party to accept the social renewals of the Labour Party and actually embrace them. To be fair One Nation Conservatism did embrace the welfare state and the NHS. They respected these new institutions and to a point built on Atlee's legacy. What followed was the boom years of the 50s and 60s. "Britain has never had it so good" was the mantra espoused in 1957 by the then Tory PM Harold Macmillan who said.

	You will see a state of prosperity such as we have never had in my lifetime - nor indeed in the history of this country	​

Now you can argue why this happened, remember though after WW2 our GDP was running at -256% a figure that today would have the markets in uproar, yet we nationalised industries, created the NHS, Welfare state, built millions of Council houses which surely has to have helped provide the growth we needed. Union power was strong and strong Unions are associated with economic growth. The USA enjoyed its greatest growth when the Unions in the USA were at their most powerful.

Conservatism used to look back at history, it saw that the social cohesion provided by the NHS and the Welfare State was a bulwark against the interests of capital, not anymore. That strand of Conservatism has been slain and the advocates removed from the party on the back of the ERG led Brexit obsession with creating a free-market libertarian utopia. That utopia means nothing is sacred, the NHS is for sale, the Welfare State can be privatised because coin is King.

To achieve this utopia, they are quite prepared to use the language of division, they will happily scapegoat whoever they want, their friends in the media and the multitude of Tufton Street think tanks will defend this approach to the hilt. The modern-day Tory party no longer "conserve" they "disrupt", they aim to destroy institutions rather than conserve them, that scares me.

It's fairly obvious to anyone on here I despise the Tory party, but I always had a grudging admiration of their ability to do the right thing most of the time even if I politically disagreed with them. Now i still despise them but the admiration has gone, they are dangerous, and our country deserves so much better than them.

A great read but all you had to say is that they are a bunch of *****. They have changed, moving from how they should treat the public to how they want to. This is not the Conservative Party that we once knew.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Tory Britain - Tory heartlands - I would recommend you set aside time to watch this

 

[bluethrunthru]

Barwell - fancy being such a **** and having a paddy and sending threatening e-mails to his own chief whip over attending a funeral is disgusting. I can sort it quite easily - put us in a room and I will knock each of them on their arses in short order - job done and then for once we can move on from a Tory crisis

 

[bluethrunthru]

again this is awful



Yet they have to learn why it happens and react accordingly

https://electionresults.parliament.uk/election/2019-12-12/results/Location/County/Cornwall

EU Referendum Results

Up to the minute results for the 2016 EU Referendum from BBC News

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[somapop]

Sir mega ****.

again this is awful



Yet they have to learn why it happens and react accordingly

https://electionresults.parliament.uk/election/2019-12-12/results/Location/County/Cornwall

EU Referendum Results

Up to the minute results for the 2016 EU Referendum from BBC News

www.bbc.co.uk

I’m up a tad too late to watch in full but will set some time aside.

Been going to Cornwall year on year for the past 20 + years & have witnessed the change for yet better & worse.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I’m up a tad too late to watch in full but will set some time aside.

Been going to Cornwall year on year for the past 20 + years & have witnessed the change for yet better & worse.

In the two posts I have made tonight watching videos its good people who deserve much better and have been let down. The earlier Guardian one in Basingstoke shocked me. When I lived down south I occasionally went there and the difference from between say 1995 and now is truly shocking.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Now - that cost of living thing of which you speak........

 

[inbetween]

Labour are going to need to have a well developed NHS/Healthcare policy platform for next week.

I'm a bit worried how much their lead in the polls is entirely dependent on people hating the tories and not on the feeling that Labour will be better.

They got pretty lucky with the whole Truss/Kwarteng thing because it was so fast moving they were able to keep quiet and no one was asking what their solutions would be (IIRC Gordon Brown is currently researching what Labour's economic policy should be). The BoE ended up being the opposition.

Last weeks immigration mess, and the nurses strike is not going to be the same. They need to have some good policies ready to go to show the difference between the parties and they'll open back up that 30pt lead.

It will be interesting to see where they go as they haven't broken cover on any policy yet. As they say don't disturb your enemy whilst he's making a mistake.

I can imagine the problem they'll have is the red wall type seats which are highly migration skeptical and any pro-migration policy could put Labour on a similar ground that Corbyn put them on in the 2019 election with Brexit. It is a big risk for them to go against the grain and suddenly be heavily pro-migration.

I think everyone will be for a change on increasing spending but we'll see have to see where that leaves us on tax. The Tories are promising tax increases AND spending cuts. I just cannot see how Labour cannot restrain spending unless they're going to propose tax increases across the board. These so called windfall taxes and wealth taxes are just not going to raise enough money.

Unfortunately COVID didn't end in 2021 and now suddenly we're back in the economy of 2019. This is 2022 where we've just spent hundreds of billions on propping the country up, the economic situation is pretty dire and high spending/borrowing at a time of high interest rates will be catastrophic. We also can't print money because that devalues the £ even more and inflation will spike even higher than it is now.

Personally I think Starmer will be measured and careful rather than radical, if he does that then he'll win. For many in Labour though measured means Tory-lite and he's going to have a big issue tempering that within the party.