The Conservative Party

[mosssideblue]

I am impressed I left such an impression on you.
I must admit it wouldn’t be difficult to remember me as any one not on the left gets such a hard time by the baying mob on here, they don’t bother posting.
For the record, I didn’t borrow from the family.
For those family members who didn’t want to RISK their money, (risk is that thing you have to do if you want to get on in life and not rely on others to give you a living), I GAVE them the money and we shared the gain.
A win win situation for both of us. I then built up a cash surplus through hard work in MY business and RISKED some of the surplus with my wife’s backing who had full confidence in me, on the Stock Market.
There is an old saying fortune favours the brave.
Those not prepared to take risks, plod along and rely on others to take risks for them are always the first ones to moan about an unfair Society.
You get out of life what you put in and no politician from whatever persuasion is going to make any significant difference to your life.
Hence I don’t really give a shit who ever gets in power.

what about those facing eviction from their homes or those struggling to feed the family. Is there no blame on the Government for that?

 

[bluethrunthru]

Coffey is literally stealing a good living off us all

 

[mosssideblue]

Coffey is literally stealing a good living off us all

she's not qualified to be a politician, nevermind one with authority

 

[threespires]

I am impressed I left such an impression on you.
I must admit it wouldn’t be difficult to remember me as any one not on the left gets such a hard time by the baying mob on here, they don’t bother posting.
For the record, I didn’t borrow from the family.
For those family members who didn’t want to RISK their money, (risk is that thing you have to do if you want to get on in life and not rely on others to give you a living), I GAVE them the money and we shared the gain.
A win win situation for both of us. I then built up a cash surplus through hard work in MY business and RISKED some of the surplus with my wife’s backing who had full confidence in me, on the Stock Market.
There is an old saying fortune favours the brave.
Those not prepared to take risks, plod along and rely on others to take risks for them are always the first ones to moan about an unfair Society.
You get out of life what you put in and no politician from whatever persuasion is going to make any significant difference to your life.
Hence I don’t really give a shit who ever gets in power.

Maybe it's rude of me to butt in on your discussion with West Dids but I feel compelled to comment on this.

I don't know your background so I wouldn't dream of suggesting which category you fall into but my experience of well off / wealthy people is they are one of three types.

1. Exceptional people who despite their backgrounds have overcome multiple obstacles to be successful.
2. Sociopaths who by being completely amoral have managed to exploit opportunities and people that most people would baulk at doing so.
3. People who through accident of birth carry a significant amount of capital (social and/or financial) into their adulthoods which they are able to exploit to their benefit. Not necessarily a single large piece of capital but lots of smaller pieces that add up to a significant whole.

My experience is that there are not that many of the first two types, the vast majority are of the third type. Of the third type there are a proportion who understand the advantages conferred on them but a much bigger group simply have no concept of the often small cumulative privileges they have been the beneficiary of and simply assume it is down to their abilities, hard work and appetite for risk. They don't do this maliciously it's simply a function of their lived experience. I have no issue with this however when people are presented with evidence to support this hypothesis their reaction is telling.

With respect I think your conception of how risk appetite works and it's role in success is hugely selective in its view. I say this as someone who built up a surplus in his own business and has reinvested it in a high risk/reward project albeit one where wealth creation wasn't the only end game.

Everyone has their own values systems of the ways in which it is or isn't acceptable to make money and what is an acceptable level of risk. I think these things vary wildly depending on your circumstances and your experience of the world to date.

 

[halfmist]

Just checked our previous discussion and it would appear you benefitted hugely from the government’s bailout of RBS, so in reality you gambled family money and won some government bailout money. You’ve not actually created value in anything. Fair play to you for doing it that way. I’ve no problem with anyone doing that but it doesn’t make you some sort of entrepreneur that people should admire. You’re effectively a lottery winner who boasts about his win after borrowing the money to buy a ticket.

You seem to forget one vital ingredient in your thesis. I had to put myself in a position to be able to gamble vast quantities of money on the stock market and enjoy life at the same time. It’s called running a successful business. I have never sold anything but knowledge and advice.. Amazingly I had 23 successful lottery wins in 23 attempts On the Stock market.I was obviously very lucky at gambling.

 

[metalblue]

Just checked our previous discussion and it would appear you benefitted hugely from the government’s bailout of RBS, so in reality you gambled family money and won some government bailout money. You’ve not actually created value in anything. Fair play to you for doing it that way. I’ve no problem with anyone doing that but it doesn’t make you some sort of entrepreneur that people should admire. You’re effectively a lottery winner who boasts about his win after borrowing the money to buy a ticket.

I wasn’t privy to that conversation but for anyone making a fortune off RBS they would have caught the proverbial falling knife. He’s stepping on that leaking ship when the institutional folk are in the lifeboat. Takes balls that trade so fair play to @halfmist on that front.

One other point you do know that investing is a zero sum game right for the average punter? All trading requires an element of luck but good traders know how to stack those odds in their favour, so in your lottery analogy it’s like already knowing 4 or 5 of the 6 numbers before the draw is made.

 

[metalblue]

Maybe it's rude of me to butt in on your discussion with West Dids but I feel compelled to comment on this.

I don't know your background so I wouldn't dream of suggesting which category you fall into but my experience of well off / wealthy people is they are one of three types.

1. Exceptional people who despite their backgrounds have overcome multiple obstacles to be successful.
2. Sociopaths who by being completely amoral have managed to exploit opportunities and people that most people would baulk at doing so.
3. People who through accident of birth carry a significant amount of capital (social and/or financial) into their adulthoods which they are able to exploit to their benefit. Not necessarily a single large piece of capital but lots of smaller pieces that add up to a significant whole.

My experience is that there are not that many of the first two types, the vast majority are of the third type. Of the third type there are a proportion who understand the advantages conferred on them but a much bigger group simply have no concept of the often small cumulative privileges they have been the beneficiary of and simply assume it is down to their abilities, hard work and appetite for risk. They don't do this maliciously it's simply a function of their lived experience. I have no issue with this however when people are presented with evidence to support this hypothesis their reaction is telling.

With respect I think your conception of how risk appetite works and it's role in success is hugely selective in its view. I say this as someone who built up a surplus in his own business and has reinvested it in a high risk/reward project albeit one where wealth creation wasn't the only end game.

Everyone has their own values systems of the ways in which it is or isn't acceptable to make money and what is an acceptable level of risk. I think these things vary wildly depending on your circumstances and your experience of the world to date.

Unless you define “wealthy” your characterisations are meaningless. What is wealthy to you?

 

[west didsblue]

I wasn’t privy to that conversation but for anyone making a fortune off RBS they would have caught the proverbial falling knife. He’s stepping on that leaking ship when the institutional folk are in the lifeboat. Takes balls that trade so fair play to @halfmist on that front.

One other point you do know that investing is a zero sum game right for the average punter? All trading requires an element of luck but good traders know how to stack those odds in their favour, so in your lottery analogy it’s like already knowing 4 or 5 of the 6 numbers before the draw is made.

Fully agree with what you say about investing in general, and I have done quite well over the last 30 years myself. However I was talking specifically about a certain trade that bore more relationship to a lottery type gamble and paid out thanks to the government pumping in loads of liquidity. Like I said, I have absolutely no problem with anyone who did that. It’s not unlike Soros cashing in on Black Wednesday in 1992. However, due to his “win” he never stops belittling the less fortunate which is not a great personality trait imo.

 

[metalblue]

what about those facing eviction from their homes or those struggling to feed the family. Is there no blame on the Government for that?

Half of it IMHO.

Cost of living is outside this governments control - same will be true of the incoming Labour government, not something they can solve. Yes Labour will make political capital out of it now but that’s just politicians being politicians. Interest rates the government (and incoming one) are screwed because of inflation, no one will lend this country money to get less back once the original capital and interest has been realised - although the neat trick all governments play is that they only return £99.50 of every £100 borrowed (numbers made up for illustration purposes) so debt erodes with time.

Food banks is by and large the fault of the universal credit system, the sanctions especially, that the government is at fault for as it’s their policy. I appreciate these ships take a long time to turn around but has Labour articulated a plan to abolish it? (Not cheap point scoring here, I don’t recall hearing them say they would - the biggest problem Labour have right now is no one knows their policies mostly - but they may have).

 

[threespires]

Unless you define “wealthy” your characterisations are meaningless. What is wealthy to you?

Not sure I agree with your statement but broadly I was referring to those with household wealth north of £3m.