west didsblue
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I didn’t say they were but when you look at their legislative agenda that’s the direction they’re heading and the obsession with flag flying fits in with that.
The Conservative Party
- Thread starter dave_blue12
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Deleted member 77198
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No, not a gut feeling at all. Evidence seen through experience, lots of it.
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mat
Guest
BTP officers at work now have their police numbers sewn into a flag on their vests.
Not fascist at all..
Not fascist at all..
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Deleted member 77198
Guest
I think a few of you on this forum would fucking dissolve in frightful panic if you ever really did experience actual fascism (which we will not have to really actually experience in this country, by the way, we’re not heading that way, it’s not already creeping in, it’s literally just a bit more right wing conservatism than we’ve been used to seeing).
Honest to god man, some of you are intelligent fellas, but some of the bollocks spouted on this forum is pure lunacy. Wake up and grow up; your brand of extremist bollocks does nothing but switch people off from the politics you’re trying to get people on board with.
dave_blue12
Well-Known Member
Yeah but you're smarter than all of us !
Or, at least, you seem to think you are.
Grow up you say.......
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mat
Guest
Fair enough.
You don't see any of the hypocrisy taking place when the government attack China for human rights violations or Myanmar for suppression of democratic protests?
The gaslighting of the people is almost complete.
I'm an internationalist. I don't feel the need to be forced to salute a piece of cloth. I'm probably more of a Hippy who believes in peace, love and harmony. Which is sadly lacking in our sociopathic government and being spread throughout the country via their client journalists mouthpieces.
Attacks on the disabled.
Attacks on legitimate protests.
We're now getting primed to hate Johnny Foreigner.
We're so much better than this.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
watching Dominic Sandbrook's excellent documentary series on BBC2 at the moment - plus ca change - laws imposed on people that they don't agree with and didn't vote for end in protests in which the Police react in the only way they know how and Europe tears apart the Tory party - 30 odd years and some in this country still harks back to a time before even then - insane.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Ha ha ha - Dig For Victory - they will finally get what they wanted - 1941
Rascal
El Presidente
Fascism has a friend in apathy. It allows control by stealth.
I have consistently warned that Johnson was dangerous because behind his liberal bonhomie, lurks an authoritarian populist who will go to any length to cement his position in power. He lies with impunity, he has no morals and as such is not governed by normal Tory rules.
Don't take our word for it though measure this Government against Umberto Eco's 14 common features of Fascism
1/ The cult of tradition. ----------- Culture wars , flying of flags as affirmation of historical greatness.
2/ The rejection of modernism --------- Constant harking back to the past.
3/ The cult of action for action’s sake----------- The current police bill, totally unnecessary
4/ Disagreement is treason ----------rejection of experts
5/ Fear of difference ------------Anti immigrant sentiment
6/ Appeal to social frustration ----especially of the middle classes. Their frustration at working class rising above their station.
7/ The obsession with a plot.------Seen with the anti-lockdown fruitcakes, UKQanon, Great replacement theory, Kalergi plan
8/ The enemy is both strong and weak ---------Corbyn was strong and weak and had to be removed.
9/ Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy ----------Aggression in the South China Sea
10/ Contempt for the weak.-------------Anti welfarist politics
11/ Everybody is educated to become a hero ---------- Beatification of hero's like Churchill
12/ Machismo and weaponry. --------- Build big fuck off nukes.
13/ Selective populism.----------The will of the people, claiming popular mandate without actual confirmation
14/ Newspeak.---------Dumbing down of education. Rote learning, no critical thinking.
Fascism is an extreme form of Conservatism, it is authoritarian and it is Nationalist. It also claims to be Patriotic and relies heavily on symbolism. It values the past more than the future.
Fascism is also driven mainly by the middle and upper classes of society who fear that the working class might actually get some of what they consider there's by right and will flock to strongmen who guarantee their elitist status. It is corporatist by nature, but it is also militaristic and whilst you may dismiss it mate, I do believe we should always be on our guard against Governments like we have now, because they are not the one nation Conservatives that most people can live with (even me) they are nasty and vicious and they are corrupt and self serving.
Bragging about our weather might be a step too far even for the fully indoctrinated.
meltonblue
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Does this mean they will dig up Dame Vera too?
Rascal
El Presidente
It is embarrassing, but its playing to a particular audience.
It shows how little even the powers that be understood the drivers behind Brexit, it wasn't a call for Nationalist fervour as they seem to think, for many it was a cry for help, a rally against the elite that brought them poverty and hopelessness.
All this festival does is appeal to a certain element of the leave vote, those consumed with nationalism and false patriotism. I am not a Nationalist, I am an Internationalist, and my idea of patriotism is very different to those who think flying a union jack from window proves you love your country. I love my country when it looks after its people and shows the best part of Britishness, fairness, understanding, empathy. To me it is patriotic to feed your school kids, its not waving a flag and singing Land of Hope and Glory.
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
I would suggest that we are nearly there
- Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. - Enough said this is prevalent everywhere and the Governments instructions that the flag MUST be flown over every Government building reinforces this
- Disdain for - the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc. - Tory party manifesto clearly outlines their plan to rewrite the Human Rights Act of 1998 and Rees Mogg recently said that 'far too many rights were given away in the 90's - 2000s.
- Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.- Tories have been creating these for years aided by the press.
- Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. - Despite years of austerity and not paying our health service staff / disabled / carers etc a living wage the Government are about to spaff billions on renewing Trident and increasing our warhead stock (despite being in breach of the Nuclear Proliferation treaty that we have signed.)
- Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy. - Look no further than Rees Mogg / Marc Francois and Johnson himself.
- Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. - As outlined earlier we all know the papers that 'support' the Tories, and the recent appointment to the head of the BBC and the cancellation of some 'left wing' comedy shows should give you cause for concern.
- Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
- Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
- Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. - Tories have been doing this for years.
- Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed . - This began with Thatcher and union bashing and restriction of their powers is still something the Tories and right wing are focused on . Zero hours contracts are also a good example.
- Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts. - The Government response to the Arts during the pandemic is evidence of this as is their failure to negotiate a special travel arrangement for touring bands and groups during the Brexit negotiation.
- Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations. - See the latest Police and Crime Bill
- Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. - Im not even going to give any examples of this. (theres too many and life is too short)
- Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. - A large part of the Tory manifesto is dedicated to the actions that they will take to suppress the vote from certain parts of the electorate from requiring photographic evidence to vote , continuing to deny 16 -18 years the vote but allowing people who live abroad the right to vote despite the fact that they haven't lived or paid taxes in the UK for the last 15 years, to redrawing the constituency boundaries. With regards to the smear campaigns you only have to look at the campaign against Corbyn for evidence of that.
So, I would argue that we are nearly there with only points 8 and 9 to be completed. Although the recent pandemic laws could be a practice run for point 8.
When facism comes it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a bible - Sinclair Lewis
Ancient Citizen
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Flag shaggers, flag shaggers everywhere!!
Italian flag fornicators
Swedish fit flag shaggers
This should put the fear of god up you all, ex fascist flag shaggers!!
Italian flag fornicators
Swedish fit flag shaggers
This should put the fear of god up you all, ex fascist flag shaggers!!
Rascal
El Presidente
That is desperate AC, very desperate.
It is not the flag, it is how and why the flag is used.
I would not argue against the use of the flag for a great event of state, for St George's day or its other national equivalents or for the Olympics, I will argue against its use when it is used promote a certain ideology and/or it is used to create division and/or certain viewpoints.
How many of those who love to associate themselves with the Union Flag actually know how it should be treated. There is a set standard way of treating the flag, do you think some MP with half a dozen behind him/her appearing on TV actually knows? Because I would bet good money they have no idea, they don't hold it with reverence, they see it as a statement.
Ancient Citizen
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''How and why the flag is used'' is an interpretation by the left to denigrate it. The point of these pics is to prove that the overwhelming majority of the world's populace support and display their country's flag, if you don't think
or believe that, go to France, the US, Spain, Japan, China, Italy, in fact anywhere on earth. The leaders of these countries regularly sit, or stand when making speeches with their country's emblems around them, we are no different.
The sneering at the flag, always accompanied by disparaging comments about its supporters doesn't go unnoticed by the Brits, all those involved in it will then look open jawed at the exit polls at elections, and fail to understand why they're once again, rejected. Nothing is learned however, and the rage and frustration increases in volume, it's wonderful looking at it all on here, to be honest, my amazement is that so called intelligent individuals cannot see the wood for the trees. Starmer, although being completely disingenuous, has at least tried to stymie this Corbynista worldview, but unfortunately for him, and his party, the public isn't buying it, Labour are now even more behind than before, Johnson has actually increased his popularity.
At some point mate, if you want a labour administration a massive change in outlook is required, the party was never like this in its inception.
Rascal
El Presidente
I support the flag, I am not denigrating it, i am denigrating how it is used.
I am not against the political leaders standing in front of a flag making speeches from a rostrum to the nation, i just think it is beyond hilarious that MPs speaking over the internet happen to have a flag behind them in their living room.
How many people on here happen to have a Union flag or any flag for that matter hanging in their living room. Do you have one?
It is the conscious effort to make sure that a flag is in view whilst speaking over the internet that smacks of ridiculousness. It is that it is making the use of a flag that is owned by all the people of the nation that smacks of the sort of divisive symbolism that is associated with Dictatorships. They are attempting to claim the flag as there own and by doing so it is divisive. It is a national symbol, it is not the symbol of a political party.