The Conservative Party

[west didsblue]

Being English can either mean you are ethnically English or you are born in England.
The definition of Ethnicity is:
"the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition."
To me that means that it is possible to be black English as an ethnicity under the "national" definition; although arguably English is a sub-nationality.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Right, and that’s only that way because of how England do their census. Wales now has Black Welsh on theirs too.

Remember that doesn’t mean anything really apart from they are the tickable categories. People can put other and put black English for example.

Mate, stop, just stop, this way madness lies, see my post above.

Because Lammy says this does not make it so.

This is coming from a party that says trans women are women, from a party we're told that is deeply anti-Semitic, and therefore racist, and profoundly unpatriotic, everybody says so. A party, it is alleged, that has embraced identity politics and cancel culture and abandoned its core supporters, burying them under a mountain of multicultural bullshit (which is a bit odd for a racist party).

A party, we're told, that despises it's traditional working class supporters because they're reactionary and racist and white! Just how stupid are the white working class? White English is primarily civic in nature, David Lammy says so.

Ethnic identity? It's only for minorities.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Lammy was fortunate that LBC caller the other day was racist and stupid with it (even by stupid racist standards). Because while every man and his dog is falling over to pat him on the back, in reality he was talking utter bollocks.

This is ethnicity facts and figure from GOV.UK....

In England and Wales, there are 18 ethnic groups recommended for use by the government when asking for someone’s ethnicity. These are grouped into 5 ethnic groups, each with an ‘Any other’ option where people can write in their ethnicity using their own words. These groups were used in the 2011 Census of England and Wales.

The recommended ethnic groups are:

White​

• English, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Irish or British
• Irish
• Gypsy or Irish Traveller
• Any other White background

Mixed or Multiple ethnic groups​

• White and Black Caribbean
• White and Black African
• White and Asian
• Any other Mixed or Multiple ethnic background

Asian or Asian British​

• Indian
• Pakistani
• Bangladeshi
• Chinese
• Any other Asian background

Black, African, Caribbean or Black British​

• African
• Caribbean
• Any other Black, African or Caribbean background

Other ethnic group​

• Arab
• Any other ethnic group

In Wales, ‘Welsh’ is the first option in the White category.

..................

White English is an ethnicity.

Lammy can be many things, but he can't be white English and neither can Sunak, and there isn't any other variation of English that they fall in to.....British on the other hand is as much theirs as it is mine.

Lammy rambling on about everyone having sex with Normans and Saxons and Irish, and you can throw in the Romans if you like, making English ethnicity so diffuse you can shoehorn all and every ethnicity, including his own, is pure Humpty Dumpty....."Words mean what ever I choose them to mean"

Clearly in Lammy world an ethnic group has to be pure and any evidence of rumpy pumpy with foreigners is an instant plunge in to the melting pot (I thought melting pot was a left wing no no).

Besides, you can't have an ethnic minority without an ethnic majority and if white English is not an ethnicity there's nothing to be a minority to.

Lammy is not English and all those being right on by saying he is are talking out of their arse.

So is Black British.....

I answered that by writing ''European''.....

 

[meltonblue]

Mate, stop, just stop, this way madness lies, see my post above.

Because Lammy says this does not make it so.

This is coming from a party that says trans women are women, from a party we're told that is deeply anti-Semitic, and therefore racist, and profoundly unpatriotic, everybody says so. A party, it is alleged, that has embraced identity politics and cancel culture and abandoned its core supporters, burying them under a mountain of multicultural bullshit (which is a bit odd for a racist party).

A party, we're told, that despises it's traditional working class supporters because they're reactionary and racist and white! Just how stupid are the white working class? White English is primarily civic in nature, David Lammy says so.

Ethnic identity? It's only for minorities.

Because Lammy says what? I’m not arguing his overall point as I haven’t heard it fully to know what it is. All I’m querying is why is black British ok but black English isn’t aside from the fact it’s not on an option on the census? As I don’t get why if people don’t think black English should be on there, why that same logic doesn’t also apply to black British?

I’d disagree completely with it but I’d at least understand the argument. I don’t understand agreeing with one and not the other though, I don’t get the logic.

 

[aguero93:20]

Strictly speaking Lammy is correct in saying he is of English nationality, but not correct in saying he is of English ethnicity

The only ethnicity the English have is of boot lickers Russ :)

 

[The perfect fumble]

Being English can either mean you are ethnically English or you are born in England.
The definition of Ethnicity is:
"the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition."
To me that means that it is possible to be black English as an ethnicity under the "national" definition; although arguably English is a sub-nationality.

Lammy believes we live in a multi-cultural society, we don't. There is a dominant culture in this country, it's difficult to define and it changes over time but it is real and its existence is keenly felt by those outside it. Ask yourself why it is that so many feel alienated from the mainstream, when in a multicultural society there is no mainstream.

To understand Lammy it is important to understand where the Labour party is and its relationship with what was its core vote.

So the basics....

Poor white is the new black.

Poor whites gave us Brexit, poor whites gave us racism, poor whites gave us Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage and UKIP, poor whites voted for Boris Johnson, poor whites don't like immigration, poor whites under perform at school, poor whites don't embrace multiculturalism, poor whites don't embrace globalism, change, BLM, extinction rebellion or green anything and on and on and on....

Poor whites are a problem for Labour and they're a particular problem for Lammy, because it's essential to get them to vote Labour yet it's impossible to embrace them or their concerns! The great unwashed white lumpenproletariat are just so fucking lumpen! They're a big, big problem for Labour, ask mumbling Gordon Brown and his switched on microphone.

Think on this...

David Lammy would never turn round to a UK citizen of Nigerian origin living in the UK and tell him his Nigerian ethnicity was a myth.

Ask yourself why.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Because Lammy says what? I’m not arguing his overall point as I haven’t heard it fully to know what it is. All I’m querying is why is black British ok but black English isn’t aside from the fact it’s not on an option on the census? As I don’t get why if people don’t think black English should be on there, why that same logic doesn’t also apply to black British?

I’d disagree completely with it but I’d at least understand the argument. I don’t understand agreeing with one and not the other though, I don’t get the logic.

British = Citizen
English = Ethnicity

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Mate, stop, just stop, this way madness lies, see my post above.

Because Lammy says this does not make it so.

This is coming from a party that says trans women are women, from a party we're told that is deeply anti-Semitic, and therefore racist, and profoundly unpatriotic, everybody says so. A party, it is alleged, that has embraced identity politics and cancel culture and abandoned its core supporters, burying them under a mountain of multicultural bullshit (which is a bit odd for a racist party).

A party, we're told, that despises it's traditional working class supporters because they're reactionary and racist and white! Just how stupid are the white working class? White English is primarily civic in nature, David Lammy says so.

Ethnic identity? It's only for minorities.

The Equality Act 2010 says women who have undergone transition get the same protections from discrimination as biological women do. If someone were to discriminate against a transwoman during the course of employment, on the assumption that they were a biological woman of child-bearing age it wouldn't matter that it was later revealed that they weren't a biological woman or that they couldn't carry a child. Same as it shouldn't matter if a biological woman can't carry a child or has no plans to were to be face the same kind of discrimination.

____________________________________


There is only one way we can know for certain about the gender demographics, we need to conduct a fullscale involuntary genital examination across the country. Would you like to apply?

Job description below

Inspector Genital
The person in a community who is the chief advocate to ban transgender people from using the bathroom that matches their gender identity, but rather their biological status at birth. This is the self-appointed person who, through their argument, pushes for some form of inspection to make sure peoples genitals match the sign on the bathroom door. This is similar to an Inspector General of a government division.


The Perfect Fumble of Halifax has been fighting so hard to stop transgender people from using intimate facilities that match their gender, he is the Inspector Genital of Halifax.

 

[The perfect fumble]

The Equality Act 2010 says women who have undergone transition get the same protections from discrimination as biological women do. If someone were to discriminate against a transwoman during the course of employment, on the assumption that they were a biological woman of child-bearing age it wouldn't matter that it was later revealed that they weren't a biological woman or that they couldn't carry a child. Same as it shouldn't matter if a biological woman can't carry a child or has no plans to were to be face the same kind of discrimination.

____________________________________


There is only one way we can know for certain about the gender demographics, we need to conduct a fullscale involuntary genital examination across the country. Would you like to apply?

Job description below

Inspector Genital
The person in a community who is the chief advocate to ban transgender people from using the bathroom that matches their gender identity, but rather their biological status at birth. This is the self-appointed person who, through their argument, pushes for some form of inspection to make sure peoples genitals match the sign on the bathroom door. This is similar to an Inspector General of a government division.


The Perfect Fumble of Halifax has been fighting so hard to stop transgender people from using intimate facilities that match their gender, he is the Inspector Genital of Halifax.

Oh dear, for someone so clearly lacking any sense of humour, it must've been tough to raise a smile when the Tories tore up changes to the Gender Recognition Act, particularly as Stonewall had thrown so much money at it.

Oh, don't post your usual lies in reply, you're playing to the gallery nothing more, I don't give a fuck what you think.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Oh dear, for someone so clearly lacking any sense of humour, it must have been tough to raise a smile when the Tories tore up changes to the Gender Recognition Act, particularly as Stonewall had thrown so much money at it.

Oh, don't post your usual lies in reply, you're playing to the gallery nothing more, I don't give a fuck what you think.

I noticed you posted links to Graham Linehan's blog the other day, are you a paid subscriber? (you have to be to comment on his articles).

Somebody who has fucked up his career as a well regarded TV writer and his marriage because of his unhealthy obsession.

I wouldn't expect you to care. You just come across as a bitter old bigot with an increasingly bizarre world view.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Ethnically British would be Celtic.

This is an old fashioned and incorrect view.

Celtic was a culture, not an ethnicity.

Celts were from the north side of the Alps. Their culture spread around Europe but their genes didn’t because they didn’t really move in large numbers from their homeland. It was just that their culture did.

So, while Britons spoke a Brythonic Celtic language and had Celtic art, and the Irish had the same (Gaelic); next to none of them were Celtic. Calling ancient Brits or Irish people ‘Celts’ would be like calling modern Brits or Irish people ‘Americans’ now because we use US social media, watch a lot of US tele and films, listen to a lot of US music, and have seen a lot of Americanisms creep into our language.

Ethnically British would just be Britons.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Some very interesting points, do you not think it depends on how you interpret being English, is it a nationality or is it an ethnicity.

To be English in the dictionary definition means to be relating to England or its people, British in the dictionary definition is relating to, denoting, or characteristic of Britain or any of the natives, citizens, or inhabitants of the United Kingdom. Lammy was born in England and could play for the England team, yet we also have people such as Jofra Archer who was born in Barbados and Raheem Sterling who was born in Jamaica who do play for England. We also had white men like Owen Hargreaves who was born in Canada play for England and Chris Froome who was born in Kenya represent GB at the Olympics. This suggests both are possible.

Strictly speaking Lammy is correct in saying he is of English nationality, but not correct in saying he is of English ethnicity.

To some though to be English you have to be of white English ethnicity and be born in England, whilst being factually correct, it would mean Johnson wasnt English.

I get lost in this argument, because it doesn't matter to me, only because of my status as an adoptee , which means i have no idea of my ethnicity, all I know was I was born in Salford.

Strange all that though..... 'cos for £500,000 you can buy a passport from the Tories (especially if you're Russian) , call yourself British and avail yourself of all the benefits of Citizenship (even get appointed to the House of Lords) .

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Some very interesting points, do you not think it depends on how you interpret being English, is it a nationality or is it an ethnicity.

To be English in the dictionary definition means to be relating to England or its people, British in the dictionary definition is relating to, denoting, or characteristic of Britain or any of the natives, citizens, or inhabitants of the United Kingdom. Lammy was born in England and could play for the England team, yet we also have people such as Jofra Archer who was born in Barbados and Raheem Sterling who was born in Jamaica who do play for England. We also had white men like Owen Hargreaves who was born in Canada play for England and Chris Froome who was born in Kenya represent GB at the Olympics. This suggests both are possible.

Strictly speaking Lammy is correct in saying he is of English nationality, but not correct in saying he is of English ethnicity.

To some though to be English you have to be of white English ethnicity and be born in England, whilst being factually correct, it would mean Johnson wasnt English.

I get lost in this argument, because it doesn't matter to me, only because of my status as an adoptee , which means i have no idea of my ethnicity, all I know was I was born in Salford.

English is a language, not an ethnicity.

English was kind of once an ethnicity. They were from what is now Denmark and were called Angles. They settled in East Anglia, mainly, and other South East areas. But they interbred with the locals and over generations there was no such thing as English genealogically speaking. And especially not now, where almost every person with Angle genes (and Saxon, Jute, Frisian etc.) also have ancient British genes as well.

And there are many modern English people (ie. people who live within the borders of England) with little Anglo-Saxon genes at all. Their lineage has lived in what is now England longer than England has existed going back longer than the Anglo-Saxon migration to Britain and have older Brittonic genes on the whole. This is because there was no great displacement of the Britons when the Anglo-Saxons came; some moved to Wales but most stayed put and were just engulfed into Wessex, Mercia, Northumberland and eventually England.

Unless some East Anglians have managed to only breed with other Anglians who were all part of the same tribes that came from South Denmark in around 600CE, I’d hazard a guess that not a single person in England is ethnically English.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Strange all that though..... 'cos for £500,000 you can buy a passport from the Tories (especially if you're Russian) , call yourself British and avail yourself of all the benefits of Citizenship (even get appointed to the House of Lords) .

Yep, this government's race report emphasises class as the deciding factor in life choices, and class used to be the one thing you couldn't buy, but now, with these gangsters in charge, it seems you can.

Change of sorts, though I wouldn't call it progress.

 

[The perfect fumble]

English is a language, not an ethnicity.

English was kind of once an ethnicity. They were from what is now Denmark and were called Angles. They settled in East Anglia, mainly, and other South East areas. But they interbred with the locals and over generations there was no such thing as English. And especially not now, where almost every person with Angle genes (and Saxon, Jute, Frisian etc.) also have ancient British genes as well.

And there are many modern English people (ie. people who live within the borders of England) with little Anglo-Saxon genes at all. Their lineage has lived in what is now England going back longer than the Anglo-Saxon migration and have older Brittonic genes on the whole. This is because there was no great displacement of the Britons when the Anglo-Saxons came; some moved to Wales but most stayed put and were just engulfed into Wessex, Mercia, Northumberland and eventually England.

Unless some East Anglians have managed to only breed with other Anglians who were all part of the same tribes that came from Situ Denmark in around 600CE, I’d hazard a guess that not a single person in England is ethnically English.

By that token black African is not an ethnicity.

West Africans are very different from East Africans and even in a country like Nigeria, a country rumoured to have been sketched out on the back of a napkin by Lord Lugard, it has over 250 ethnic groups, the most populous and politically influential being Hausa-Fulani 29%, Yoruba 21%, Igbo (Ibo) 18%, Ijaw 10%, Kanuri 4%, Ibibio 3.5%, Tiv 2.5%.

I lived in Nigeria and love the country very much, but I can assure you that if you were to tell an Igbo that he is not a distinct ethnic group, and point to the fact that migration and marriage and time and tide had obliterated his ethnicity, he would not take kindly to it.

My objection to what Lammy said is not that at its core there isn't a kernel of truth, it is that his statement could be applied to every ethnic group anywhere, but that does not obliterate ethnic groups, and it doesn't relegate them to being primarily civic in nature.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

English is a language, not an ethnicity.

English was kind of once an ethnicity. They were from what is now Denmark and were called Angles. They settled in East Anglia, mainly, and other South East areas. But they interbred with the locals and over generations there was no such thing as English genealogically speaking. And especially not now, where almost every person with Angle genes (and Saxon, Jute, Frisian etc.) also have ancient British genes as well.

And there are many modern English people (ie. people who live within the borders of England) with little Anglo-Saxon genes at all. Their lineage has lived in what is now England longer than England has existed going back longer than the Anglo-Saxon migration to Britain and have older Brittonic genes on the whole. This is because there was no great displacement of the Britons when the Anglo-Saxons came; some moved to Wales but most stayed put and were just engulfed into Wessex, Mercia, Northumberland and eventually England.

Unless some East Anglians have managed to only breed with other Anglians who were all part of the same tribes that came from South Denmark in around 600CE, I’d hazard a guess that not a single person in England is ethnically English.

Yep .... I keep buying Brown eggs from the supermarket 'cos people tell me they're better .... but fuck me ... when I crack them open and put them in the frying pan they look exactly the same as a white one. What am I doing wrong?

 

[aguero93:20]

This is an old fashioned and incorrect view.

Celtic was a culture, not an ethnicity.

Celts were from the north side of the Alps. Their culture spread around Europe but their genes didn’t because they didn’t really move in large numbers from their homeland. It was just that their culture did.

So, while Britons spoke a Brythonic Celtic language and had Celtic art, and the Irish had the same (Gaelic); next to none of them were Celtic. Calling ancient Brits or Irish people ‘Celts’ would be like calling modern Brits or Irish people ‘Americans’ now because we use US social media, watch a lot of US tele and films, listen to a lot of US music, and have seen a lot of Americanisms creep into our language.

Ethnically British would just be Britons.

Britons were a Celtic race.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Britons were a Celtic race.

That’s a very mixed up and incorrect sentence. And it’s an outdated and incorrect view which has been historically and genealogically proven to be false.

The word Celtic wasn’t made up until the 1800s and they understood it and used it incorrectly.

Ancient Britons were not Celts

BBC - History - Ancient History in depth: Peoples of Britain

Uncover the fascinating ethnic and cultural history of the peoples of Briton. Assess the impact of the many invaders of Britain's shores.

www.bbc.co.uk

“Calling the British Iron Age 'Celtic' is so misleading that it is best abandoned.”

The Irish aren’t and never were Celts

Redirect Notice

“The secret of Celtic Ireland is that it is all bogus. There never was a Celtic invasion of Ireland or Britain.”

The Brythonic and Gaelic languages were/are Celtic, the art and jewellery and weaponry were Celtic. But neither the ancient nor modern Brits nor Irish were Celtic. What Celtic things they had were the equivalent of modern day cultural appropriation. Celtic culture spread and took hold, their genes did not.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Yep .... I keep buying Brown eggs from the supermarket 'cos people tell me they're better .... but fuck me ... when I crack them open and put them in the frying pan they look exactly the same as a white one. What am I doing wrong?

If the left continues down this path it'll be in opposition forever.

The right wing have built solid support in this country by dog whistling racist bullshit to a specific ethnic group, a group which one or two in here say doesn't exist.

Either ways, a sizeable chunk of something or other doesn't see it that way.

What's the left going to do? Patronise these people? Wait for them to die? That's a winning strategy!

So Labour believes we defeat the problem of ethnic friction, by denying the existence of the largest ethnic group!

How could it possibly go wrong?

 

[Deleted member 77198]

By that token black African is not an ethnicity.

West Africans are very different from East Africans and even in a country like Nigeria, a country rumoured to have been sketched out on the back of a napkin by Lord Lugard, it has over 250 ethnic groups, the most populous and politically influential being Hausa-Fulani 29%, Yoruba 21%, Igbo (Ibo) 18%, Ijaw 10%, Kanuri 4%, Ibibio 3.5%, Tiv 2.5%.

I lived in Nigeria and love the country very much, but I can assure you that if you were to tell an Igbo that he is not a distinct ethnic group, and point to the fact that migration and marriage and time and tide had obliterated his ethnicity, he would not take kindly to it.

My objection to what Lammy said is not that at its core there isn't a kernel of truth, it is that his statement could be applied to every ethnic group anywhere, but that does not obliterate ethnic groups, and it doesn't relegate them to being primarily civic in nature.

Black African is a race not an ethnicity.

All of those ethnicities are different ethnicities within the same race.