The Conservative Party

Sleaze ain't going away Tory boys- defend that

tomorrowspapers.co.uk/daily-mirror-front-page-2021-11-11/





How many people care about it?

I know we are on here disgusted with it all, but it's the teflon tories and they are masters of deflection.

It will all be forgotten about in a few weeks when the real enemy of the UK, the EUSSR, take centre stage and they exact their revenge on us.

The tories need an enemy at the moment to boost their ratings because an election is looming before the real effects of their 'build back better' brexit is laid bare for all to see when import controls have to be implemented.

Geoffrey Cox, a QC and former Lord Chancellor, the loudest voice in the House of Commons during the brexit debates, had to take legal advice from the chief whip so he could swan off to his sunny island and earn his money. Really?

He covered his back, and that's the only reason he asked him.

They are all bent as a nine bob note, there are countless breaches of the ministerial code from all and sundry running our country at the moment, and it doesn't mean a jot to them because no one really gives a damm about it.

They lie and cheat because they know they can get away with it.

Tory boys- defend that?

They don't give a shit, and they won't even try.
 
How short is thy memory - the 2009 cash for influence scandal ring any bells?

There are around 15 former union leaders also sitting in the lords having donated millions to the Labour Party. Along with business men/women who have also donated millions to the Labour Party. All appointed in last 20 years.

In summary I don’t think anyone can claim the moral high ground. Certainly not the tories or labour
And that is also disgusting.

Money should not be able to buy political appointments.

This current lot though are way above anything i have ever seen.
 
As to my post, I was merely correcting @Rascal whom is toiling under some misapprehensions about corruption being an exclusively Tory thing. It isn’t.
It is however an overwhelming majority this particular Government thing.

There has always been bad apples, this Government has a full orchard.
 
You want to give Boris a quarter of a million a year for being shit? Fuck that they get enough.
Indeed. The idea that 80-odd grand isn't enough so we'll need to pay them to avoid them having second jobs is a piss take. They should be banned from having second jobs anyway. They should also be banned from taking money for campaigning above a certain (low) value from any single organisation or business, and banned from taking jobs at any organisation that might represent a conflict of interest for a significant period of time after they leave office to prevent favours for jobs. Anyone who does this should be investigated for corruption. They should also be banned from appointing people to the House of Lords if they have been legitimately voted out in an election. It's ridiculous that the electorate can vote someone out and the party can turn around and say "fuck you, you're having them anyway." (In reality an unelected HoL shouldn't exist anyway, but that's another story).

The MP salary is there to ensure that all members of society can become an MP without any financial penalty. It is already more than enough of an incentive for working class people and middle class people to consider it a very prestigious job. It's the same as a consultant doctor ffs, and much more when you take into account all of the bonuses involved. The only people who seem to have a problem with the salary are toffs who were expecting a six-figure salary to do fuck all at daddy's friend's company the second they left university.

There's this idea that paying people more removes corruption. No, harsh legal penalties get rid of corruption. It amazes me that Owen Paterson isn't able to be legally prosecuted for what he did, for example, and it's just a matter of breaking parliamentary rules.
 
It is however an overwhelming majority this particular Government thing.

There has always been bad apples, this Government has a full orchard.
And that is the point of these stories have been bubbling under for months. I remember the Byline Times reporting on the Coz story months ago but now that the sleaze has gathered momentum the avalanche starts and I guarantee there's more to come.

Its funny how Metal never mentions the fact that Starmer did some legal work whilst being an MP for FREE and it was relating the death penalty.
 
How many people care about it?

I know we are on here disgusted with it all, but it's the teflon tories and they are masters of deflection.

It will all be forgotten about in a few weeks when the real enemy of the UK, the EUSSR, take centre stage and they exact their revenge on us.

The tories need an enemy at the moment to boost their ratings because an election is looming before the real effects of their 'build back better' brexit is laid bare for all to see when import controls have to be implemented.

Geoffrey Cox, a QC and former Lord Chancellor, the loudest voice in the House of Commons during the brexit debates, had to take legal advice from the chief whip so he could swan off to his sunny island and earn his money. Really?

He covered his back, and that's the only reason he asked him.

They are all bent as a nine bob note, there are countless breaches of the ministerial code from all and sundry running our country at the moment, and it doesn't mean a jot to them because no one really gives a damm about it.

They lie and cheat because they know they can get away with it.

Tory boys- defend that?

They don't give a shit, and they won't even try.
No it starts off only people in these sort of threads care, then there is a tipping point there is a drip drip effect, and once it gets into a constant flow the general floating voter starts to care, this feels like one of those to me . Tha's what brings governments down.
 
How many people care about it?

I know we are on here disgusted with it all, but it's the teflon tories and they are masters of deflection.

It will all be forgotten about in a few weeks when the real enemy of the UK, the EUSSR, take centre stage and they exact their revenge on us.

The tories need an enemy at the moment to boost their ratings because an election is looming before the real effects of their 'build back better' brexit is laid bare for all to see when import controls have to be implemented.

Geoffrey Cox, a QC and former Lord Chancellor, the loudest voice in the House of Commons during the brexit debates, had to take legal advice from the chief whip so he could swan off to his sunny island and earn his money. Really?

He covered his back, and that's the only reason he asked him.

They are all bent as a nine bob note, there are countless breaches of the ministerial code from all and sundry running our country at the moment, and it doesn't mean a jot to them because no one really gives a damm about it.

They lie and cheat because they know they can get away with it.

Tory boys- defend that?

They don't give a shit, and they won't even try.
A great many do care and care enough not to vote for them. Many more are needed though before they are kicked out.
 
Nothing to see here....


you really could not make it up.

Sorry, Orwell did:

“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”

“The masses never revolt of their own accord, and they never revolt merely because they are oppressed. Indeed, so long as they are not permitted to have standards of comparison, they never even become aware that they are oppressed.”
 
anybody got any figures on who actually benefitted from 11 years of austerity? I have seen that wages flat lined and in real terms went down but every service seems to have been reduced in that period
 
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Nice try. Name them. But in any case you mean their unions may have donated millions to the Labour party, not their individual donations (so not cash for honours). Nice try, though.

The idiotic contortions people come up with to justify their support of a pile shit is incredible. Anything rather than take a good look at themselves and their motivations. Truly pathetic.
 
And that is the point of these stories have been bubbling under for months. I remember the Byline Times reporting on the Coz story months ago but now that the sleaze has gathered momentum the avalanche starts and I guarantee there's more to come.

Its funny how Metal never mentions the fact that Starmer did some legal work whilst being an MP for FREE and it was relating the death penalty.

I’ve quoted your post Mike but I’ll also address Russ’s posts here as well.

@Rascal , I do agree with you. There is an element of brazenness about this government that needs to be sorted out. We have real issues that need real solutions not them spending time defending or denying shit like this. We don’t pay them to be on the take and we don’t pay them to spend their time defending it.

I’m not blinkered. There is good and bad in all our politics irrespective of them being “left” or “right”, that’s good people and good policies. I doubt any of us can look at the parties we vote for and say yeah I agree 100% with everything and they’ve not missed anything off the list. I certainly can’t and it makes the case for proportional representation (to be fair I voted against that but do regret not considering it more robustly now).

So let’s agree that their are bad apples in politics - naturally the light falls primarily on the tories and labour as the largest parties over the years but I bet if we went digging we’d find others including the SNP. But these bad apples are breeching the rules - they know what they are doing is wrong they just hope they don’t get caught. Perhaps MPs and members of the Lords should be forced to open their bank accounts to scrutiny so any payments must be seen - and it should carry a custodial sentence if they hide anything. Right now they seem to get what a 30 day ban? which is a joke of a deterrent and really says to me they’ve never been serious about fixing the problem.

Next (and the story currently breaking) is those that earn (sometimes vast amounts) doing something they are (they claim) entitled to do under the rules. This is much harder, should Teresa May not be able to earn £80k a speech? Should Jess Phillips not have earned well in excess of £100k for two books? Let’s face it neither of these two would be earning that if they were regular folk - no one would be interested in what they had to say or write; so the fact they are a politician and former PM has allowed them to earn more. Then we look at the murky world of “consultancy” - again these people are only being employed for 2 reasons, firstly (and most likely) to give some guidance on how to get things done to business (again nothing wrong with this) and secondly for kudos. On the first point is there much wrong with this? I muted putting in an application for an extension, I was matey with one of the guys on the planning committee and I happened to mention it when they were round one night (just for conversation - honestly). He then told me the sort of things I need to include to have any chance of success. In the end I didn’t go ahead and it a bit of a grey area in my mind. It’s not like he said bung me £5k and I’ll get it sorted but he did provide advice that I’d not have known about otherwise. There is of course the third option of influencing policy which is much rarer but that goes back to my earlier point that it should be a criminal offence with time in the big house. Of course the focus is going to be on Cox because of the vast sums involved - good I say, scrutinise him.

So what can we do? If we decide to put a blanket ban on having any outside paid work then that stops Kier Starmer being able to claim fair expenses for the free work he has done, or the doctor needing to keep her registration up. To allow it they’ll create loopholes in the legislation and that will be exploited by people who will say “but I’ve not broken the rules” and we are back to square one.

Expenses are still a scandal in my eyes. Just looking at Jess Philips again (and only because I’d found this when looking for her book earnings, I will easily be able to find similar for any number of MPs). She employs her husband on a chunky salary, a year or so ago was claiming she can’t afford a printer and so puts in £4K of travel expenses which will include going to her mother in laws to print stuff because that is where the printer is she uses. I mean come on!!! Like I say it’s not a bash Jess day it’s that despite the furore on expenses some are still up to their necks in it.

We deserve better and there are good MPs out there or do everything by the book so we don’t need to throw the baby out with the bath water we just need them to get their own houses in order - hopefully we will shine a light on it all and some real/ meaningful change will happen not the lip service we’ve had in the past. I won’t hold my breath mind, the tories will hope this will all go away so will dither and there will be some notable silence from the opposition benches.

And in the meantime, on here, it will continue be tories this and tories that like theirs is the only shit that smells.
 
people saying ooooohhh what about the Blairs years..............neatly leapfrogging the Greensill/Cameron years - the people who are Tories only are to enrich themselves not for their forelock tugging followers
 
fraudster


Think that’s a given :)

Sunak’s problem is that he is a prisoner of the Tories own strategy. The economy is underperforming and Frost with his self proclaimed ’cultural war’ with the EU and threats to trigger A16 are acting as a depressant. If we do trigger A16, then Sunak’s budget will be redundant overnight if the EU retaliate.

Sunak is as much a helpless passenger on the bus driven by Johnson as anyone.

New GDP figures this morning just out - a blow to the Chancellor. Less than expected growth of just 1.3% in the 3rd quarter and 0.6% in September. Significance is first full quarter without any covid restrictions for 18 months, so economy was expected to bounce back strongly.

ONS say that adds up to annualised GDP growth of 5.1%. That's well down from the OBR's revision up to 6.5% for this year at the Budget only two weeks ago. That means less tax takings for Rishi Sunak, so either spending cuts on his plans... or more tax rises.’
 
I’ve quoted your post Mike but I’ll also address Russ’s posts here as well.

@Rascal , I do agree with you. There is an element of brazenness about this government that needs to be sorted out. We have real issues that need real solutions not them spending time defending or denying shit like this. We don’t pay them to be on the take and we don’t pay them to spend their time defending it.

I’m not blinkered. There is good and bad in all our politics irrespective of them being “left” or “right”, that’s good people and good policies. I doubt any of us can look at the parties we vote for and say yeah I agree 100% with everything and they’ve not missed anything off the list. I certainly can’t and it makes the case for proportional representation (to be fair I voted against that but do regret not considering it more robustly now).

So let’s agree that their are bad apples in politics - naturally the light falls primarily on the tories and labour as the largest parties over the years but I bet if we went digging we’d find others including the SNP. But these bad apples are breeching the rules - they know what they are doing is wrong they just hope they don’t get caught. Perhaps MPs and members of the Lords should be forced to open their bank accounts to scrutiny so any payments must be seen - and it should carry a custodial sentence if they hide anything. Right now they seem to get what a 30 day ban? which is a joke of a deterrent and really says to me they’ve never been serious about fixing the problem.

Next (and the story currently breaking) is those that earn (sometimes vast amounts) doing something they are (they claim) entitled to do under the rules. This is much harder, should Teresa May not be able to earn £80k a speech? Should Jess Phillips not have earned well in excess of £100k for two books? Let’s face it neither of these two would be earning that if they were regular folk - no one would be interested in what they had to say or write; so the fact they are a politician and former PM has allowed them to earn more. Then we look at the murky world of “consultancy” - again these people are only being employed for 2 reasons, firstly (and most likely) to give some guidance on how to get things done to business (again nothing wrong with this) and secondly for kudos. On the first point is there much wrong with this? I muted putting in an application for an extension, I was matey with one of the guys on the planning committee and I happened to mention it when they were round one night (just for conversation - honestly). He then told me the sort of things I need to include to have any chance of success. In the end I didn’t go ahead and it a bit of a grey area in my mind. It’s not like he said bung me £5k and I’ll get it sorted but he did provide advice that I’d not have known about otherwise. There is of course the third option of influencing policy which is much rarer but that goes back to my earlier point that it should be a criminal offence with time in the big house. Of course the focus is going to be on Cox because of the vast sums involved - good I say, scrutinise him.

So what can we do? If we decide to put a blanket ban on having any outside paid work then that stops Kier Starmer being able to claim fair expenses for the free work he has done, or the doctor needing to keep her registration up. To allow it they’ll create loopholes in the legislation and that will be exploited by people who will say “but I’ve not broken the rules” and we are back to square one.

Expenses are still a scandal in my eyes. Just looking at Jess Philips again (and only because I’d found this when looking for her book earnings, I will easily be able to find similar for any number of MPs). She employs her husband on a chunky salary, a year or so ago was claiming she can’t afford a printer and so puts in £4K of travel expenses which will include going to her mother in laws to print stuff because that is where the printer is she uses. I mean come on!!! Like I say it’s not a bash Jess day it’s that despite the furore on expenses some are still up to their necks in it.

We deserve better and there are good MPs out there or do everything by the book so we don’t need to throw the baby out with the bath water we just need them to get their own houses in order - hopefully we will shine a light on it all and some real/ meaningful change will happen not the lip service we’ve had in the past. I won’t hold my breath mind, the tories will hope this will all go away so will dither and there will be some notable silence from the opposition benches.

And in the meantime, on here, it will continue be tories this and tories that like theirs is the only shit that smells.
Fair comment, but the matter of scale and influence needs to be taken into account.
Comparing Phillips making a few grand writing a book in her spare time whose sales benefit from her position is not really comparable to government departments handing massive contracts worth hundreds of millions to the minister's mates because they've bunged a few million at them for "consultancy" work.

They're both wrong but it's like comparing murder to parking on double yellows.
 

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