The General Election Thread

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Damocles said:
TangerineSteve17 said:
I struggle with this a bit. I assume you mean the UK, but still.. you try to consider everything in it's entirety or you're a bigot. It's one of things I cant understand. What is best for where I happen to live or best for the world? no matter how minuscule the scale. Basically why I can't stand right wing politics, because it's selfish really, exploitative. there are about 7 billion of us, all conscious.
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Think of it this way. I want a Government that is across the entire world that directly controls decision making and will own all public infrastructure, healthcare and the like of rather than having little fiefdoms in imaginary lines on a map suggest that their part is special. I want this because I believe that it will free up private industry focused on products and non-infrastructure services, believe that that human life is sacred and deserves a social safety net, will raise academic/educational standards across the entire world and provide free healthcare to those who need it the most. In addition, it will add transport and other infrastructure links that can be further used to grow economic development indexes in part of the world that need it. Central to this would be unionisation of workers by trade on a global instead of national basis which means the worker in Britain gets economic protectionism but the worker in Thailand gets social protectionism to meet in the middle. Not to mention that a world budget would mean a single world currency and would totally eliminate the notion of rich people "running off to different countries because of too high taxes" which seems to be a major objection some have about corporation tax. Where they going to go? Mars? They could also better distribute raw resources and material management around the world if as I predict robotics has the same effect on the world's economy that industrialisation did.

This is what I believe is best for the human race as a whole. I also think that any party that stood on those ground might get about six votes across the country and three of them would be from people ticking the wrong boxes. In addition, if by some miracle this was adopted in all countries simultaneously then the world's economy would collapse overnight and probably end up in World War 3. You can't just flick a switch and make things like that happen.

So instead you look at where the country is now and what's important. For example, I wouldn't like to go out of Europe because I want MORE federalisation and not less so UKIP is probably off the radar for me unless they made some really attractive promises in their other policies. Outside of that one thing because it's the one concession you make towards your own utopia, you make a judgement call based on the rest of the parties.

I believe that the choice between Tory, Labour and Lib Dems boils down essentially to how you want your money managed in balance to the services that are provided. Looking around the country, or at least in my local areas, I see economic growth and investment starting to come back though the cost of this in a human scale was quite high. Austerity is fine and good but people need a break if only a temporary one. Other people's experience may vary but I understand the idea of voting Labour now to secure the NHS and refund social welfare then bringing back the Tories if necessary in 5 years. My local Labour candidate broke a promise that he made to my face and thus I went with Lib Dem as many of what I think the country needs in the next 5 years are shared by their policies but I'm in an ultra safe Labour seat (~40% majority) so nobody cares what I voted.

Basically there's a difference between person belief and common sense. People should choose which of their deeply held beliefs they are willing to die on a hill for and then compromise on the rest towards the middle, resulting in an equitable result for all concerned. This means not picking a party in advance but instead picking a party based on the changing circumstances as you see them and wrapping up your ego within the membership of this party to the point where you feel people who don't also vote that way are somehow beneath you or are rich people ruining the country. Those forms of narrative are useless and are why people disengage with politics.
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I was actually agreeing with you in an non-obvious way. I have read you are a globalist. To me there is no other possible goal. In essence I want a fair world (as you do presumably) and not wanting the UK to be a better place to live than some other country. Have you watched Hamburger Hill recently or something? :) I don't want to spoil anything as this isn't a philosophy topic, but i don't really give a shit about myself/nations in these terms. If the best was we all lived in huts without electric I would vote for it, That's how I see things.

You probably have a better understanding of progress and doing what is right at the right time.

And your last part about ego and superiority.. this is a sad fact of our psychology it seems. Don't wanna quote REM really, but everybody hurts. People have different values because of a corrupt game. I see no party that wants to unite the world. (it's too big with too many minds and bodies anyway) - Needless to say I am pro EU/immigration because I don't seriously believe in borders. We either make it together, or we don't make it together.

(No real "guts" to this reply. Read it back and it's rhetoric.
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned but I understand the cons want to give people in housing association properties the right to buy. I really cannot understand this at all. At a time when there aren't enough properties about for people to rent at a reasonable rate.

Also if they sell off these properties then what happens to the staff who work for these companies?

This doesn't seem like a way of helping people get on the property ladder just the people at the top been given a green light to make more and more money.
 
Never really cared less about an election if I'm honest my Granddad was staunch Labour fought against Mosleys Blackshirts outside Bellevue, my Dad less so but still a Labour voter as he had to work for a living, it seemed clearer when I was younger too worked in Industry vote Labour for the most part, Alas today who represents me if you're in the middle its not the Tories you're their cash cow but neither is it Labour so its decision time when I finish work tomorrow and vote. hmmm tough one.
 
I've enjoyed this Election , expected it to be boring and bland , highlights were Paxman and the BBC Question time debate which had the best format, especially Ed the Red getting a kicking off the audience and when the Krankie begged for power in one of the others.

Downside from the Tories was the personal attacks on Ed the Red , whether they are true or not I don't deem them necessary .

Downside from the Socialists has been turning an Election into a copy of Hello magazine with the highlight being Beaker begging Brand for his 10m Twitter followers and the #edstone which will be used for Beakers political headstone.

Nick Clegg said a couple of weeks ago a vote for LD means Tories with a heart and Socialists with a brain , a very clever sound bite , I expect them to do better than predicted .

UKIP will not get a single MP.

Whilst hoping for a majority Tory win ,they will get the most seats , it ain't going to happen , a CON/LD coalition would be a reflection of where the Country is Politically , Tories with a heart.

As others have said , Politicians love apathy , so whoever you vote for , make sure you use your vote.
 
In the surprising absence of a Revolutionary Communist Party candidate here in Tatton, I shall be voting Lib Dem.

Come on you middle of the roaders.
 
Lib Dem for me too. Made my mind up a few weeks back and nothing has been said since to change it.
 
It is a pity that this thread has been so tribal. We arrive on election day with very little enlightenment from those that have dominated this discussion with snipping and point scoring. The irony is that the country has moved on from party fandom and personal attacks, we want real policy direction and action. Given that we may well have another election in just a few months perhaps we could have a separate thread for serious discussion of issues and leave the egos to themselves.
 
Johnsonontheleft said:
Interesting bit on Newsnight about Miliband's dad - who adored Karl Marx & wanted capitalism destroyed.
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Were they describing how he, after fleeing the Nazis and arriving in Britain, he went down to the recruiting office and joined the British forces? How he risked his life, like many others, for three years in the North Atlantic, defending Britains shores in i's darkets hour?

Or was't there time for that, what with the piece about how Call me Daves dad got a sick note so he didn't have to serve but still managed to play competitive tennis in to his forties?
 
whatever everyone's political leanings, make sure you vote if you can, this is one of your only chances to make a difference
however little you think that maybe
 
tonea2003 said:
whatever everyone's political leanings, make sure you vote if you can, this is one of your only chances to make a difference
however little you think that maybe
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All a bunch of wankers with no morals, any party will join with any other for a bit if power.

I'm 'spoiling' my paper.

If we all did that it still wouldn't make a difference.

I normally voted Labour but as they went more and more wet moved to further left minor parties to vote.....now they're all one big slimy mess.
 
Harold Jonathan Esmond Vere Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere has non-domicile tax status and owns his media businesses through a complex structure of offshore holdings and trusts which entail him paying almost no UK tax on his income, investments or wealth.

I hope Ed taxes the bastard until he physically bleeds and then taxes him some more thereafter.
 
tonea2003 said:
whatever everyone's political leanings, make sure you vote if you can, this is one of your only chances to make a difference
however little you think that maybe
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Having read all the parties manifestos at Local and National level i've not found one politician or party worth voting for. Not even got a tactical vote to fall back on.
After the Grandson's gone home and i finish work i'm going straight to the boozer.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Harold Jonathan Esmond Vere Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere has non-domicile tax status and owns his media businesses through a complex structure of offshore holdings and trusts which entail him paying almost no UK tax on his income, investments or wealth.

I hope Ed taxes the bastard until he physically bleeds and then taxes him some more thereafter.
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Lots exploit the tax loopholes that exist

Question, Have you ever bought anything from Amazon?

Be honest
 
The perfect fumble said:
Harold Jonathan Esmond Vere Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere has non-domicile tax status and owns his media businesses through a complex structure of offshore holdings and trusts which entail him paying almost no UK tax on his income, investments or wealth.

I hope Ed taxes the bastard until he physically bleeds and then taxes him some more thereafter.
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When you say 'almost no tax', I would wager that he still pays more tax than the vast majority of people.
 
I hope Ed taxes the bastard until he physically bleeds and then taxes him some more thereafter.[/quote]

Very Dennis Healey. That approach resulted in a begging bowl to the IMF, and why Labour is clueless about the economy.
 
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