The General Election Thread

[Rascal]

You talk some absolute drivel
I was born in Wythenshawe FFS doesn't come much more run down than that I own two Businesses and Employ 40 people when my wife became disabled I sold a much bigger business so I could spend more time at home. So how much opportunity do people need?

And have you got statistics stating how many of those people using food banks smoke or own a pet or a car or drink alcohol? Using a foodbank may just be a means to stretch their money for other reasons. Some people make bad choices why should people who make better choices in life pay for their mistakes?

Well done to you for escaping the poverty trap that is Wythenshawe. I certainly repect that. But because you did it, it does mean others are equally able or were as you say afford the chance of meritocracy in which you believe. Ed Smith wrote a brilliant book about the effect of "luck" on a persons career, worth a read.

As i see it on £63 a week you cant drink, smoke, feed a pet, own a 123" tv and feed yourself. I know i cant and im not that poor thankfully. Now you may see that bollocks, because you did well, but its true, otherwise Wythenshawe and its 200,000 inhabitants would be a hotbed of entreprenurial expansion would it not.

So i ask again, what you advocate to help those who are the poorest in our society?

 

[Metal Biker]

Blimey whu blu, how do you see yourself in relation to these other humans? Obviously not as your equal.

How dare people make bad choices or have bad luck.

How dare you demand that other people have to pay for other people's bad choices and mistakes.

Personal responsibility has been brushed aside these days it seems, but then what else could I expect from the Nanny State Generation way of thinking.

 

[CityStu]

Blimey whu blu, how do you see yourself in relation to these other humans? Obviously not as your equal.

How dare people make bad choices or have bad luck.

Bad choices would mean people haven't made the most of the opportunities they've been given. I'm all for tax money being used to give more people better opportunities to start in life. I'm not so happy if it's used to give those who've thrown chances to succeed away more chances.

Bad luck is what the welfare system should be there to provide for. People who cannot work through no fault of their own (such as some disabilities) or people temporarily in between jobs. It shouldn't be available as a lifestyle choice.

 

[whp.blue]

Blimey whu blu, how do you see yourself in relation to these other humans? Obviously not as your equal.

How dare people make bad choices or have bad luck.

Not really I have made some amazingly bad choices in life but I don't expect other people to pay for piss poor decisions I have made.

I think I am no better than the next man and that's what really pisses me off. If I can make a reasonable success of my life anyone can.

Some people just pick themselves up and carry on others just like to mope around and blame the world for their life. I am obviously in the first camp.

 

[Damocles]

Amazing

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbLGG5UGEKw[/video]

 

[Rascal]

Blimey whu blu, how do you see yourself in relation to these other humans? Obviously not as your equal.

How dare people make bad choices or have bad luck.

How dare you demand that other people have to pay for other people's bad choices and mistakes.

Personal responsibility has been brushed aside these days it seems, but then what else could I expect from the Nanny State Generation way of thinking.

Well you never know when that bad luck or bad choice might affect you. Of course if that happened then you would eschew all help from the nanny state under those circumstances im sure.

 

[TangerineSteve17]

Blimey whu blu, how do you see yourself in relation to these other humans? Obviously not as your equal.

How dare people make bad choices or have bad luck.

Not really I have made some amazingly bad choices in life but I don't expect other people to pay for piss poor decisions I have made.

I think I am no better than the next man and that's what really pisses me off. If I can make a reasonable success of my life anyone can.

Some people just pick themselves up and carry on others just like to mope around and blame the world for their life. I am obviously in the first camp.

That's fine. I make a wage and could support my family (when i had one). People define success in different ways. I just don't expect everyone to have the same standards/ambitions/wit/luck.

We all hate lazy people, that is fine also, although I would bet they suffer more from despondency than laziness. But those who struggle despite doing the best they can? You don't want to even them any help? Someone else's piss poor decision isn't the same as your own, neither to them or anyone else.

 

[whp.blue]

You talk some absolute drivel
I was born in Wythenshawe FFS doesn't come much more run down than that I own two Businesses and Employ 40 people when my wife became disabled I sold a much bigger business so I could spend more time at home. So how much opportunity do people need?

And have you got statistics stating how many of those people using food banks smoke or own a pet or a car or drink alcohol? Using a foodbank may just be a means to stretch their money for other reasons. Some people make bad choices why should people who make better choices in life pay for their mistakes?

Well done to you for escaping the poverty trap that is Wythenshawe. I certainly repect that. But because you did it, it does mean others are equally able or were as you say afford the chance of meritocracy in which you believe. Ed Smith wrote a brilliant book about the effect of "luck" on a persons career, worth a read.

As i see it on £63 a week you cant drink, smoke, feed a pet, own a 123" tv and feed yourself. I know i cant and im not that poor thankfully. Now you may see that bollocks, because you did well, but its true, otherwise Wythenshawe and its 200,000 inhabitants would be a hotbed of entreprenurial expansion would it not.

So i ask again, what you advocate to help those who are the poorest in our society?

I would start by removing the Financial crutch that is Benefits for anyone capable of working and if you think people on £63 per can't smoke etc you need to get your arse down to the Wythenshawe dole office and ask them signing on how they manage to afford their fags,

And lots of people from Wythenshawe have done ok for themselves lots however had made the choice not to work take drugs and knock out kids that the rest of us are expected to pay for.
It is more about attitude than you will ever admit. There is one quite well known Wythensahwe Entrepreneur who left Poundswick hardly able to read or write who has worked ever day doing gardens on the estate he has never claimed a penny in benefits so do you want to tell me how lucky he is? or is having genuine hard work ethic enough?

 

[Rascal]

Amazing

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbLGG5UGEKw[/video]

That is that scary it could actually be true :))

 

[Metal Biker]

Blimey whu blu, how do you see yourself in relation to these other humans? Obviously not as your equal.

How dare people make bad choices or have bad luck.

How dare you demand that other people have to pay for other people's bad choices and mistakes.

Personal responsibility has been brushed aside these days it seems, but then what else could I expect from the Nanny State Generation way of thinking.

Well you never know when that bad luck or bad choice might affect you. Of course if that happened then you would eschew all help from the nanny state under those circumstances im sure.

It has happened to me. I walked out of a well paying job thinking I could walk right into another one and the result? I spent one year on benefits but found it achievable to live thanks to the way benefits were under a Labour Government. As a result I became one right lazy bastard and had no impetus to go out and work. When the NI contributions ran out "the state" stopped trying to help me out and started 'pressuring me' to go and get a job! I know, how barbaric right? There I was, having the time of my life, doing nothing, waking up at midday and all of a sudden i'm being told to go job hunting. Before you ask I'm not being sarcastic nor am I using any tired, lazy stereotypes most people have about people on benefits. I am giving you a genuine account of my 13 months on benefits back in 2007-08 and how my attitude was. I found I could get by without doing any work. Yes, in truth it meant no holidays abroad or any other luxuries, but I could get by. So is that fair on other hardworking people?

Well after being employed in the same job for the past 6 years I've already come to the conclusion, no, it wasn't. And the Labour Government made it far too easy for me to get away with it. Well i'm ashamed of my attitude back then so now I save money, just a few quid here and there to build up an emergency fund in case I ever need it or if "bad luck" happens. Taking responsibility for ones own life and life choices is a skill most refuse to learn. And i'm not ragging on the disabled or unexepectedly injured folks, but the feckless and workshy like I was. I DID eschew all the help from the Labour nanny state and it made me a worse person compared to the responsible one I am now. To rub salt into the wounds, back in 2007, I was firmly a Labour voter, reaping all the benefits (pardon the pun) that the party was offering, and now I can't abide them. Funny old world, innit.

 

[Rascal]

I would start by removing the Financial crutch that is Benefits for anyone capable of working and if you think people on £63 per can't smoke etc you need to get your arse down to the Wythenshawe dole office and ask them signing on how they manage to afford their fags,

And lots of people from Wythenshawe have done ok for themselves lots however had made the choice not to work take drugs and knock out kids that the rest of us are expected to pay for.
It is more about attitude than you will ever admit. There is one quite well known Wythensahwe Entrepreneur who left Poundswick hardly able to read or write who has worked ever day doing gardens on the estate he has never claimed a penny in benefits so do you want to tell me how lucky he is? or is having genuine hard work ethic enough?

The financial crutch as you put it is being removed already in the form of sanctions for any person capable of working who does not achieve DWP standards. This has contributed to the massive rise in foodbanks.

Im sure and know there are people who choose not to work, but to punish the majority for the sins of the minority is surely not the right and proper thing to do. And some people do well, but more dont and the figures that show income inequality to be the highest for nigh on 100 years do not lie. The meritocracy is failing as it is an impossible dream without more redistribution of resources.

Funny thing is Wythenshawe was created by Socialism, it was the garden city to replace the old Mancunian inner city slums. The socialist welfare state,health service and state schools helped you get a start in life and gave you an opportunity to do well, but now you are doing well you disown the system that gave you a chance in life. You have taken plenty out already, do you not think now that you are doing well you perhaps owe a little back?

 

[whp.blue]

How dare you demand that other people have to pay for other people's bad choices and mistakes.

Personal responsibility has been brushed aside these days it seems, but then what else could I expect from the Nanny State Generation way of thinking.

Well you never know when that bad luck or bad choice might affect you. Of course if that happened then you would eschew all help from the nanny state under those circumstances im sure.

It has happened to me. I walked out of a well paying job thinking I could walk right into another one and the result? I spent one year on benefits but found it achievable to live thanks to the way benefits were under a Labour Government. As a result I became one right lazy bastard and had no impetus to go out and work. When the NI contributions ran out "the state" stopped trying to help me out and started 'pressuring me' to go and get a job! I know, how barbaric right? There I was, having the time of my life, doing nothing, waking up at midday and all of a sudden i'm being told to go job hunting. Before you ask I'm not being sarcastic nor am I using any tired, lazy stereotypes most people have about people on benefits. I am giving you a genuine account of my 13 months on benefits back in 2007-08 and how my attitude was. I found I could get by without doing any work. Yes, in truth it meant no holidays abroad or any other luxuries, but I could get by. So is that fair on other hardworking people?

Well after being employed in the same job for the past 6 years I've already come to the conclusion, no, it wasn't. And the Labour Government made it far too easy for me to get away with it. Well i'm ashamed of my attitude back then so now I save money, just a few quid here and there to build up an emergency fund in case I ever need it or if "bad luck" happens. Taking responsibility for ones own life and life choices is a skill most refuse to learn. And i'm not ragging on the disabled or unexepectedly injured folks, but the feckless and workshy like I was. I DID eschew all the help from the Labour nanny state and it made me a worse person compared to the responsible one I am now. To rub salt into the wounds, back in 2007, I was firmly a Labour voter, reaping all the benefits (pardon the pun) that the party was offering, and now I can't abide them. Funny old world, innit.

I am sure Rascal will be along soon telling you this can't be true backed up with statistics comparing us the the Economy of Vanuatu and even if it is it's not your fault as the Tory Government has let you down or because you never went to Eton this is what you should expect.

 

[Mustard Dave]

Aspiration,contribution and achievement are not mutually producive though, hence the fatal flaw in meritocratic thinking.

Explaining the poor on a failure to understand how a meritocracy works is a total fallacy as it fails in that for a true meritocracy to succeed that has to be equality of opportunity for all. That is clearly not the case in the UK.

So why do we have so many poor people in the 6th richest country on the planet and how would you solve the problem?

Your second point is quite frankly bollocks nothing in this country stops anyone from succeeding every body has enough of an opportunity to better themselves if they are prepared to put some effort in. God we even have companies like Remploy who employ just disabled people so they can get on in life. Everyone in this country gets an equal opportunity to excel just that some people don't take the opportunities given to them. Instead they pine for some sort of easy life under some nannyfied left wing state.

Tories have closed Remploy's down,not many of those disabled workers will get another job

What about the 29 closed down in 2008 (42 planned originally).

 

[Metal Biker]

I would start by removing the Financial crutch that is Benefits for anyone capable of working and if you think people on £63 per can't smoke etc you need to get your arse down to the Wythenshawe dole office and ask them signing on how they manage to afford their fags,

And lots of people from Wythenshawe have done ok for themselves lots however had made the choice not to work take drugs and knock out kids that the rest of us are expected to pay for.
It is more about attitude than you will ever admit. There is one quite well known Wythensahwe Entrepreneur who left Poundswick hardly able to read or write who has worked ever day doing gardens on the estate he has never claimed a penny in benefits so do you want to tell me how lucky he is? or is having genuine hard work ethic enough?

The financial crutch as you put it is being removed already in the form of sanctions for any person capable of working who does not achieve DWP standards. This has contributed to the massive rise in foodbanks.

Im sure and know there are people who choose not to work, but to punish the majority for the sins of the minority is surely not the right and proper thing to do. And some people do well, but more dont and the figures that show income inequality to be the highest for nigh on 100 years do not lie. The meritocracy is failing as it is an impossible dream without more redistribution of resources.

Funny thing is Wythenshawe was created by Socialism, it was the garden city to replace the old Mancunian inner city slums. The socialist welfare state,health service and state schools helped you get a start in life and gave you an opportunity to do well, but now you are doing well you disown the system that gave you a chance in life. You have taken plenty out already, do you not think now that you are doing well you perhaps owe a little back?

Why should he? Why shoudl anyone? He doens't "owe life" anything as his parents like yours and mine all contributed to that system of education and health as have the rest of us when we start going out to work. You seem to be confusing "benefits" with "paying for state services", something few people are against and understand its importance to society. What's your opinion on those people who, after spurning their opportunities in school by voluntarily slacking off, then expect government benefits having never made any contribution to the system you refer to in the first place?
What are they "owed" having never made a single contribution?

 

[Mustard Dave]

There are various schools of thought regarding economic inequality.

1:Marxism favours an eventual society where distribution is based on an individual's needs rather than social class or other such factors.

2:Meritocracy favours an eventual society where an individual's success is a direct function of contribution reflecting an individual's skills and effort, and detrimental (this is a value judgement) inasmuch as it represent inherited or unjustified wealth or opportunities.

3:Classical liberals and libertarians generally do not take a stance on wealth inequality, but believe in equality under the law regardless of whether it leads to unequal wealth distribution.
Arguments based on social justice favour a more equal distribution making claims economic inequality weakens societies, although counter-arguments are made that inequality might benefit societies.

We obviously don't have enough people who understand we live under the second system and think they don't have to contribute in order to be rewarded. and that is why we have so may poor people in a rich Country.
or to put it another way

Britain is a meritocracy, and everyone with skill and imagination and with effort may aspire to reach the highest level

Aspiration,contribution and achievement are not mutually producive though, hence the fatal flaw in meritocratic thinking.

Explaining the poor on a failure to understand how a meritocracy works is a total fallacy as it fails in that for a true meritocracy to succeed that has to be equality of opportunity for all. That is clearly not the case in the UK.

So why do we have so many poor people in the 6th richest country on the planet and how would you solve the problem?

What's your definition of poor? If you're willing to use a global comparison in saying the UK is the 6th richest country in the world, then I'd be willing to argue that the average UK citizen is far better off in terms of personal finance and standard of living than the vast majority of people in the world.

From what the LWNJs say, I think it is anybody who has a telly that is smaller than 60" and only has the basic Sky package.

 

[Metal Biker]

Well you never know when that bad luck or bad choice might affect you. Of course if that happened then you would eschew all help from the nanny state under those circumstances im sure.

It has happened to me. I walked out of a well paying job thinking I could walk right into another one and the result? I spent one year on benefits but found it achievable to live thanks to the way benefits were under a Labour Government. As a result I became one right lazy bastard and had no impetus to go out and work. When the NI contributions ran out "the state" stopped trying to help me out and started 'pressuring me' to go and get a job! I know, how barbaric right? There I was, having the time of my life, doing nothing, waking up at midday and all of a sudden i'm being told to go job hunting. Before you ask I'm not being sarcastic nor am I using any tired, lazy stereotypes most people have about people on benefits. I am giving you a genuine account of my 13 months on benefits back in 2007-08 and how my attitude was. I found I could get by without doing any work. Yes, in truth it meant no holidays abroad or any other luxuries, but I could get by. So is that fair on other hardworking people?

Well after being employed in the same job for the past 6 years I've already come to the conclusion, no, it wasn't. And the Labour Government made it far too easy for me to get away with it. Well i'm ashamed of my attitude back then so now I save money, just a few quid here and there to build up an emergency fund in case I ever need it or if "bad luck" happens. Taking responsibility for ones own life and life choices is a skill most refuse to learn. And i'm not ragging on the disabled or unexepectedly injured folks, but the feckless and workshy like I was. I DID eschew all the help from the Labour nanny state and it made me a worse person compared to the responsible one I am now. To rub salt into the wounds, back in 2007, I was firmly a Labour voter, reaping all the benefits (pardon the pun) that the party was offering, and now I can't abide them. Funny old world, innit.

I am sure Rascal will be along soon telling you this can't be true backed up with statistics comparing us the the Economy of Vanuatu and even if it is it's not your fault as the Tory Government has let you down or because you never went to Eton this is what you should expect.

I consider myself a socialists worst nightmare; a former socialist (now Left Libertarian) who acknowledges that he took advantage of the system and hard working taxpayers contributions like yourself, made easy thanks to the way the Labour Government set out claiming benefits. If anyone said to me how "hard" it was on benefits i'd give a sob story if it meant i'd get more money I didn't have to work for. That was my attitude towards work when on benefits, as was quite a few other people I knew.

This is how my fortnightly interactions went "So, have you been looking for a job in the last two weeks?" "yeah (hands over book with three randomly scribbled job applications)" "Have you heard back from them?" "Nah" "Well here's hoping you have better luck next week, just sign here" Boom, £69 a week, just like that.

 

[Mustard Dave]

At
Straws
Clutching

Not really. Big fuck up, regardless of how you want it painting.

Even if it was a fcuk up ( which it wasn't), the case for this is overwhelming and Ed has scored another victory, hence his lead in the latest polls.
Why should non doms be treated favourably in this way?
Answers on a postcard please.

It was a massive fuck-up. Non-doms do not get favourable treatment. They have to pay tax on UK earnings and on any overseas income brought into the UK. Those that have been here seven years have to pay an additional fee of £30k. George Osborne increased this to £90k for those that have been here for 17 years.

Non-dom tax rules have been in place since Pitt the Younger introduced them - why have none of the Labour governments we have had in between put a stop to it? Because it would be stupid! As I have said, non-doms do pay tax. In addition, they spend shit-loads of cash on expensive items, upon which VAT is charged. Ed Balls-up was right in January - scrapping the rules will cost us. Suddenly saying we will make millions in tax shows what a spectacularly incompetent shower of retards the Labour party are.

 

[whp.blue]

I would start by removing the Financial crutch that is Benefits for anyone capable of working and if you think people on £63 per can't smoke etc you need to get your arse down to the Wythenshawe dole office and ask them signing on how they manage to afford their fags,

And lots of people from Wythenshawe have done ok for themselves lots however had made the choice not to work take drugs and knock out kids that the rest of us are expected to pay for.
It is more about attitude than you will ever admit. There is one quite well known Wythensahwe Entrepreneur who left Poundswick hardly able to read or write who has worked ever day doing gardens on the estate he has never claimed a penny in benefits so do you want to tell me how lucky he is? or is having genuine hard work ethic enough?

The financial crutch as you put it is being removed already in the form of sanctions for any person capable of working who does not achieve DWP standards. This has contributed to the massive rise in foodbanks.

Im sure and know there are people who choose not to work, but to punish the majority for the sins of the minority is surely not the right and proper thing to do. And some people do well, but more dont and the figures that show income inequality to be the highest for nigh on 100 years do not lie. The meritocracy is failing as it is an impossible dream without more redistribution of resources.

Funny thing is Wythenshawe was created by Socialism, it was the garden city to replace the old Mancunian inner city slums. The socialist welfare state,health service and state schools helped you get a start in life and gave you an opportunity to do well, but now you are doing well you disown the system that gave you a chance in life. You have taken plenty out already, do you not think now that you are doing well you perhaps owe a little back?

You are doing it again aren't you talking drivel and jumping to conclusions
I am not really disowning any system I just want a system that is fair to the Majority of people who work hard and try to get on with their lives not a Labour system that makes people better off by not working. And I have certainly put more back in than I have taken out I have paid the higher rates of taxes all my life and have at times had to pay corporation tax etc I have always employed people and given others willing to take it the chance.You have no idea what I have or have not given back.
I can say with almost 100% certainly I have in my working life given more money to various Charities than I have ever taken out of any system and I am as sure I have given more than you so thanks for the lecture but you can go fuck yourself on that one.
It may come as a big shock that people who make a bit of money give some of it away I know that doesn't sit well with your left wing brainwashing or snappy soundbites.

I am not advocating people don't have a right to good education and health care what I am advocating is we stop paying people to scrounge off the working people of this country. We would then have enough money to improve state Education and health care.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

garbage Mustard dave
uninformed garbage

How the fuck can non dom status be inherited by people raised in the UK WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN OUTSIDE?
Because it is.
personally I'd adopt the US tax system whereby a citizen pays tax wherever they earn income and wherever they live in the world.

if they don't like it they have to renounce US citizenship.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

I would start by removing the Financial crutch that is Benefits for anyone capable of working and if you think people on £63 per can't smoke etc you need to get your arse down to the Wythenshawe dole office and ask them signing on how they manage to afford their fags,

And lots of people from Wythenshawe have done ok for themselves lots however had made the choice not to work take drugs and knock out kids that the rest of us are expected to pay for.
It is more about attitude than you will ever admit. There is one quite well known Wythensahwe Entrepreneur who left Poundswick hardly able to read or write who has worked ever day doing gardens on the estate he has never claimed a penny in benefits so do you want to tell me how lucky he is? or is having genuine hard work ethic enough?

The financial crutch as you put it is being removed already in the form of sanctions for any person capable of working who does not achieve DWP standards. This has contributed to the massive rise in foodbanks.

Im sure and know there are people who choose not to work, but to punish the majority for the sins of the minority is surely not the right and proper thing to do. And some people do well, but more dont and the figures that show income inequality to be the highest for nigh on 100 years do not lie. The meritocracy is failing as it is an impossible dream without more redistribution of resources.

Funny thing is Wythenshawe was created by Socialism, it was the garden city to replace the old Mancunian inner city slums. The socialist welfare state,health service and state schools helped you get a start in life and gave you an opportunity to do well, but now you are doing well you disown the system that gave you a chance in life. You have taken plenty out already, do you not think now that you are doing well you perhaps owe a little back?

You are doing it again aren't you talking drivel and jumping to conclusions
I am not really disowning any system I just want a system that is fair to the Majority of people who work hard and try to get on with their lives not a Labour system that makes people better off by not working. And I have certainly put more back in than I have taken out I have paid the higher rates of taxes all my life and have at times had to pay corporation tax etc I have always employed people and given others willing to take it the chance.You have no idea what I have or have not given back.
I can say with almost 100% certainly I have in my working life given more money to various Charities than I have ever taken out of any system and I am as sure I have given more than you so thanks for the lecture but you can go fuck yourself on that one.
It may come as a big shock that people who make a bit of money give some of it away I know that doesn't sit well with your left wing brainwashing or snappy soundbites.

I am not advocating people don't have a right to good education and health care what I am advocating is we stop paying people to scrounge off the working people of this country. We would then have enough money to improve state Education and health care.

Fuck ing hell what a self righteous cu nt you are.