The General Election Thread

[Damocles]

Finally those of us who are opposed to the creation of a European superstate and are disillusioned by the state of politics in general in this country have someone to vote for. The three main parties basically stuck two fingers up at the majority of British people who were uncomfortable with the direction of travel of the EU, and gave away more and more sovereignty without our consent, due to the fact that they knew we had no anti-EU party to vote for. How they chuckled as they congratulated themselves with their smug superiority, well they're not laughing now, and I predict they won't be laughing after the next General Election.

Apart from UKIP, Liberty, the Communist Party, the Greens, the Tories and the BNP.

And the Government can't do anything "without our consent". They're elected fucking leaders!!

 

[hilts]

They remind me of NSDAPs cuddly nationalism of the late 1920s early 1930s. Give them power and who knows what the nutjobs will do. They are Nationalists and and isolationists. Many in the party have links to far right movements such as the EDL and BNP as Skashion proved many times on here.


How anybody with a modicum of sanity thinks that voting UKIP will be a kick in the bollocks to the established parties is in my opinion totally missing the point. A vote for UKIP is a vote for a far right wing party not a protest against anyone. It does appear that some turkeys will vote for christmas.

Why is it not a protest against anyone?, your logic seems strange at best, are you saying a protest vote can only be done by the insane or stupid?

We must learn the lessons of history as history has this ability to keep repeating itself.

Voting for extreme parties to protest is in my opinion idiotic and damaging to any democracy. Does it not speak volumes that i would rather everyone in the country vote Tory than 1 person vote UKIP

Why would i voting UKIP be damaging to democracy? you speak ideals and not realities

My stance and i would appreciate your view on it is this

I do not want Labour in on any circumstance so it leaves me with the Tories by default

I believe we are headed for a hung parliament so my vote will go to the party who i think will finish third

I would prefer a Tory/Lib Dem coalition but the Liberals looked doomed otherwise i would vote Liberal

Therefore i might vote UKIP if it looks like they could get enough MP's to form a coalition

 

[Damocles]

Here's their policies on the economy:

– UKIP will increase personal allowance to the level of full-time minimum wage earnings (approx £13,500 by next election).

Question to all from one with a genuine interest in politics, but no idea of economics!

How can any party expect to have enough in the coffers by raising the threshold of the personal allowance? Many people are currently paid less than a living wage, yet are supposed to be grateful for even having a job. As a part-time worker on a shite salary, I wonder if I'll ever see the day when I earn enough to pay tax. Raising the threshold will mean I have more money for myself, but how can the country earn enough?

Mainfestos are legendary for vastly overestimating revenue from policies which they then funnel into potential costs.

 

[Damocles]

Why would i voting UKIP be damaging to democracy? you speak ideals and not realities

My stance and i would appreciate your view on it is this

I do not want Labour in on any circumstance so it leaves me with the Tories by default

I believe we are headed for a hung parliament so my vote will go to the party who i think will finish third

I would prefer a Tory/Lib Dem coalition but the Liberals looked doomed otherwise i would vote Liberal

Therefore i might vote UKIP if it looks like they could get enough MP's to form a coalition

UKIP will have nowhere near enough MPs to form a coalition. They wouldn't even have half that if best estimates are met.

 

[TGR]

I am interested in what way UKIP is a Fascist party? They are certainley a right wing populist party but not a Fascist party it's a word often banded about by the left normally meaning anyone who is more right wing than the Tories , can the left wing posters educate me on this

That's not what he said, he said that they were borderline fascists not that they are a fascist party.

You could claim that they have a nationalist and isolationist streak within them, as well as a strong military commitment and a desire to become economically self sufficient - all tenets of fascism

Bang on.
Or they could just be patriotic. I know its very unfashionable for the English to do this (Whilst it's more than OK for the SNP & others to do it)
and it is simply not on the agenda for the left of centre parties & voters.
However the policies of UKIP as a party are starting to chime with the electorate as whole.
Just watch the Tories & Labour up the anti on immigration starting any time very soon now their arses could be on the line.
That's the problem with the left wingers anything remotely centre or to the right is immediately tagged as 'fascists'
Not so long ago they were labelled as 'idiots' 'nutjobs' 'loonies' now they are winning votes they are being labelled as 'fascists'.
Ignore them at your peril.

 

[hilts]

Why would i voting UKIP be damaging to democracy? you speak ideals and not realities

My stance and i would appreciate your view on it is this

I do not want Labour in on any circumstance so it leaves me with the Tories by default

I believe we are headed for a hung parliament so my vote will go to the party who i think will finish third

I would prefer a Tory/Lib Dem coalition but the Liberals looked doomed otherwise i would vote Liberal

Therefore i might vote UKIP if it looks like they could get enough MP's to form a coalition

UKIP will have nowhere near enough MPs to form a coalition. They wouldn't even have half that if best estimates are met.

May is a long way off and you have no idea how many would be needed

 

[hilts]

Finally those of us who are opposed to the creation of a European superstate and are disillusioned by the state of politics in general in this country have someone to vote for. The three main parties basically stuck two fingers up at the majority of British people who were uncomfortable with the direction of travel of the EU, and gave away more and more sovereignty without our consent, due to the fact that they knew we had no anti-EU party to vote for. How they chuckled as they congratulated themselves with their smug superiority, well they're not laughing now, and I predict they won't be laughing after the next General Election.

Apart from UKIP, Liberty, the Communist Party, the Greens, the Tories and the BNP.

And the Government can't do anything "without our consent". They're elected fucking leaders!!

Slight problem with this is that five out of those six can't get elected and the other have so far failed to give us an referendum, so the only way some people see to address this problem is to vote elsewhere, the main parties could address the situation and then many decent people wouldn't feel the need to vote for UKIP

It is a sad state of affairs when a n other is becoming a choice for people

 

[Gabriel]

The British voting system traditionally precludes 'extreme' parties from entering Westminster and, when 'extreme' parties do become electorally popular, the Conservative and Labour parties habitually canibalize their policies and assimilate them into their own manifestoes, thereby negating any appeal the 'extreme' parties may have had. It's taken the defection of an enormously popular local MP to break that mould, but even then it's hard to equate UKIP with the extreme historical examples touted here.

It would seem that the overcrowding of the three main parties in the middle has engendered a culture now where anything else appears strangely dangerous, but if people genuinely fear UKIP's potential, then the answer is to study its policies and debate it down.

 

[Rascal]

Finally those of us who are opposed to the creation of a European superstate and are disillusioned by the state of politics in general in this country have someone to vote for. The three main parties basically stuck two fingers up at the majority of British people who were uncomfortable with the direction of travel of the EU, and gave away more and more sovereignty without our consent, due to the fact that they knew we had no anti-EU party to vote for. How they chuckled as they congratulated themselves with their smug superiority, well they're not laughing now, and I predict they won't be laughing after the next General Election.

The Tories are offering an EU referendum. As far as im aware UKIP are not, bizarelly, but perhaps its just presumed.


And how do you quantify that they stuck two fingers up to the "majority" of British people. At the last election fewer than 40% of the vote was for a party that "eurosceptic"

UKIP appeal to anti EU, anti immigration sentiments, but so do the Tories to a degree. No party advocates more integration and more freedom of movement. No party stands for those who see the future as a European State of federal states with a single currency and the scrapping of immigration totally. By that i mean we do not cnsider a Welshman an immigrant if he moves next door do we, so why consider a German or a Pole to be an immigrant??? That no longer makes sense. Have a EU wide social welfare and tax system, with an EU Army and devolve local power to local people on need as we have done with the UK. Why is no party advocating this? I will tell you why, its because even though we have lived in a union for over 300 years racism still exists and people are petty and protective of what they have without imagining the bigger picture of wealth for all.

 

[hgblue]

Finally those of us who are opposed to the creation of a European superstate and are disillusioned by the state of politics in general in this country have someone to vote for. The three main parties basically stuck two fingers up at the majority of British people who were uncomfortable with the direction of travel of the EU, and gave away more and more sovereignty without our consent, due to the fact that they knew we had no anti-EU party to vote for. How they chuckled as they congratulated themselves with their smug superiority, well they're not laughing now, and I predict they won't be laughing after the next General Election.

Apart from UKIP, Liberty, the Communist Party, the Greens, the Tories and the BNP.

And the Government can't do anything "without our consent". They're elected fucking leaders!!

If all 3 main political parties are pro-EU, who are those of us who are opposed to the EU to vote for? Liberty? The Communist Party? The Greens? The BNP? Behave. The Tories? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they actually signed up to the biggest transfer of power to Brussels since the EC was formed? They are actually a pro-EU party, who have grudgingly offered a referendum, but will campaign in favour. So no, I don't believe the British people support the creation of a European superstate, but we've been landed with one regardless by our self serving politicians who don't actually give a toss what the people of this country want, except when they are forced to pay attention by the prospect of their snouts being removed from the trough by the emergence of a new party that gives these people a voice.

 

[Gabriel]

Finally those of us who are opposed to the creation of a European superstate and are disillusioned by the state of politics in general in this country have someone to vote for. The three main parties basically stuck two fingers up at the majority of British people who were uncomfortable with the direction of travel of the EU, and gave away more and more sovereignty without our consent, due to the fact that they knew we had no anti-EU party to vote for. How they chuckled as they congratulated themselves with their smug superiority, well they're not laughing now, and I predict they won't be laughing after the next General Election.

The Tories are offering an EU referendum. As far as im aware UKIP are not, bizarelly, but perhaps its just presumed.


And how do you quantify that they stuck two fingers up to the "majority" of British people. At the last election fewer than 40% of the vote was for a party that "eurosceptic"

UKIP appeal to anti EU, anti immigration sentiments, but so do the Tories to a degree. No party advocates more integration and more freedom of movement. No party stands for those who see the future as a European State of federal states with a single currency and the scrapping of immigration totally. By that i mean we do not cnsider a Welshman an immigrant if he moves next door do we, so why consider a German or a Pole to be an immigrant??? That no longer makes sense. Have a EU wide social welfare and tax system, with an EU Army and devolve local power to local people on need as we have done with the UK. Why is no party advocating this? I will tell you why, its because even though we have lived in a union for over 300 years racism still exists and people are petty and protective of what they have without imagining the bigger picture of wealth for all.

Cameron wants to use the threat of a referendum- proposed for 2017- to renegotiate the UK's position within the EU. Farage, with no hope of forming a government but a faint possibility of forming a potential balance of power, wants any referendum to be held before August 2015.

 

[urban genie]

For some reason the coverage of a minor party that UKIP are (or have been) by the media for no apparent reason but because Farage and his mates caused titilation amongst Journo's has helped elevate them into becoming a possible major factor in the elections, compare that to the coverage of the green party who have had a sitting MP since the last election, but as they are not sensationalist or absurb at times that they are ignored in the main with no coverage given to them.

This makes me think to the Waldo Factor episode of black mirror.

I understand the appeal of UKIP in their populist soundbites but dig deaper and you can find a extremely right wing party that will not be the answer to this countries ills.

 

[Damocles]

Bang on.
Or they could just be patriotic. I know its very unfashionable for the English to do this (Whilst it's more than OK for the SNP & others to do it)
and it is simply not on the agenda for the left of centre parties & voters.
However the policies of UKIP as a party are starting to chime with the electorate as whole.
Just watch the Tories & Labour up the anti on immigration starting any time very soon now their arses could be on the line.
That's the problem with the left wingers anything remotely centre or to the right is immediately tagged as 'fascists'
Not so long ago they were labelled as 'idiots' 'nutjobs' 'loonies' now they are winning votes they are being labelled as 'fascists'.
Ignore them at your peril.

Err...no. That's just some of the recognised tenets of fascism. If you have issue with this you should take it up with the dictionary, as that is just what the word means.

 

[Damocles]

May is a long way off and you have no idea how many would be needed

What part of the word "estimates" threw you exactly?

 

[Damocles]

Finally those of us who are opposed to the creation of a European superstate and are disillusioned by the state of politics in general in this country have someone to vote for. The three main parties basically stuck two fingers up at the majority of British people who were uncomfortable with the direction of travel of the EU, and gave away more and more sovereignty without our consent, due to the fact that they knew we had no anti-EU party to vote for. How they chuckled as they congratulated themselves with their smug superiority, well they're not laughing now, and I predict they won't be laughing after the next General Election.

Apart from UKIP, Liberty, the Communist Party, the Greens, the Tories and the BNP.

And the Government can't do anything "without our consent". They're elected fucking leaders!!

If all 3 main political parties are pro-EU, who are those of us who are opposed to the EU to vote for? Liberty? The Communist Party? The Greens? The BNP? Behave. The Tories? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they actually signed up to the biggest transfer of power to Brussels since the EC was formed? They are actually a pro-EU party, who have grudgingly offered a referendum, but will campaign in favour. So no, I don't believe the British people support the creation of a European superstate, but we've been landed with one regardless by our self serving politicians who don't actually give a toss what the people of this country want, except when they are forced to pay attention by the prospect of their snouts being removed from the trough by the emergence of a new party that gives these people a voice.

So what you mean is not that you didn't have anyone to vote for, but that you didn't have anyone to vote for that met some criteria you have outside of their EU policy?

And what specifically do MPs gain from being a member of the EU that has you so appalled? Not broad strokes that sound like they were written by Wolfie Smith but specific examples.

 

[hilts]

May is a long way off and you have no idea how many would be needed

What part of the word "estimates" threw you exactly?

I didn't throw me in any way, come May i will look at the polls, it was you looking into the future based on best estimates, last week a "best estimate" would have been Labour would safely hang on to Middleton and Clacton would have been close

The main parties have caused all this shit

 

[Damocles]

May is a long way off and you have no idea how many would be needed

What part of the word "estimates" threw you exactly?

I didn't throw me in any way, come May i will look at the polls, it was you looking into the future based on best estimates, last week a "best estimate" would have been Labour would safely hang on to Middleton and Clacton would have been close

The main parties have caused all this shit

So if you admit that polls held only a few days before an election can be inaccurate, why are you looking at the polls next May to determine your vote?

 

[law74]

Here's their policies on the economy:

– UKIP will increase personal allowance to the level of full-time minimum wage earnings (approx £13,500 by next election).

Question to all from one with a genuine interest in politics, but no idea of economics!

How can any party expect to have enough in the coffers by raising the threshold of the personal allowance? Many people are currently paid less than a living wage, yet are supposed to be grateful for even having a job. As a part-time worker on a shite salary, I wonder if I'll ever see the day when I earn enough to pay tax. Raising the threshold will mean I have more money for myself, but how can the country earn enough?

The country has enough money to raise the basic rate of tax and still pay a living wage, fund the NHS and education, but to do so would require them to tackle the tax evasion of the wealthy that may or may not donate large sums of cash to political parties, and if forced to contribute to the society they rely on for their profits, they might decide not to donate to their pet political poodle.

 

[Rascal]

Bang on.
Or they could just be patriotic. I know its very unfashionable for the English to do this (Whilst it's more than OK for the SNP & others to do it)
.

I am a Patriotic Englishman, im proud to be English, Im more proud to be a Mancunian mind. But im also proud to be an Internationalist.

Patriotism is not a weapon that should be used to justify anti immigration, anti EU rhetoric. That patriotism is nationalistic and divisive. Nationalism by defination excludes people, patriotism should never divide it should unite.

 

[cibaman]

I reckon it will end up something like:

Labour 285
Tories 290
Lib Dem 29
SNP 19
UKIP 5
Others 22

A lot of UKIP's support will ebb away during the general election campaign as they find that Farage cant be everywhere and his minnions contradict each other and make a series of gaffes. They might poll higher than the Lib Dems but their support will be spread too thinly to pick up many seats

The Lib Dems will lose 75% of their vote but will still hang on to half of their seats.

The SNP will take seats off Labour and Lib Dems.

We'll end up with a minority Labour government with the SNP and Lib Dems agreeing to prop them up in return for some electoral reform and devo max+