The General Election Thread

[denislawsbackheel]

The UKIPS also have some wheezes planned for the NHS.
How about paying to jump waiting lists.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.gmbnorthwest.com/GMB-Trade-Union/GMB/Trade-Union/Union/news/ukips-latest-nhs-policy-charging-skip-ae-waiting-times" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.gmbnorthwest.com/GMB-Trade-U ... ting-times</a>

 

[denislawsbackheel]

I predict the election debates will not happen.
The top 3 parties will not countenance the UKIPs being in on it and other one trick ponies like the Greens and Respect will mount legal challenges to be included. If the UKIPs are allowed in why not them?

 

[BlueHammer85]

A view from a UKIP'er i know -

In some ways the damage has already been done which is why all those of the right vehemently opposed Labour, immigration should be a POSITIVE force inriching society creating a wider employment range creating jobs and grow economy, but in true Labour fashion it was all about ignorance and completely open borders to anyone without any understanding or control, now we have a situation of strained public services a country with hostile communities in in closed areas, and the government fighting against it, the first thing to do is to get out of Europe which is costing billions to a corrupt and inefficient EU, STOP free flow of people where we have no control of what and who is coming in, next to work closely with communities understanding them and providing tougher laws on any HATE led organization including EDP! And Muslim extremists. You wouldn't have free movement into your home in fact you shut the door and restrict it, the same goes for your nation, in order to have a healthy society with good public services, stable economy and a united community you simply HAVE to AT LEAST restrict what comes in, points based system is used by many nations and is shown to be effective, but we can't since the EU is mainly left led government that wants to restrict Britain and make it take the burden to create an equal Europe.

It is the very reason left wing governments never work, their philosophy is tax anyone that works hard to fund the safety net with the result being a society that is state dependent which stagnates growth in the individual since their is little reward and much to fall back on, knowing that people from poorer countries will obviously vote for these policies large scale immigration is introduced to create a large voting pool to keep them in power, it is the very reason the Tory's are giving much devolution to Scotland it will take away Labours stronghold....all Parties do it and in 12 years of Labour government they engineered this society, and finally the answer to all problems is use this high tax to throw money at any issues thinking this will make the problem better, while insome ways it does it creates beurocracy and ultimately inefficiency as they try as a traditional left policy to control the state put in ridiculous targets and middle management which the public are left baffled with

 

[Gabriel]

Tristram Hunt
Appropriate rhyming slang

Talk about fiddling while Rome burns!

However I won't vote for a party that advocates flat rate tax, privatising the NHS and allows rich benefactors to buy a cabinet position.

Ukip are a joke.

Are those UKIP policies? Just looked on its site and that doesn't seem to be the case, and does it have cabinet positions? Where did you see this?

Jesus wept!
Flat rate tax is one of their few definite policies.

As for buying positions this is a cut and paste of the Times of Oct 10th.
Can't put the link cos it's a pay site.

Ukip members have accused the party of allowing donors to buy their way into top positions after the latest businessman to donate money was awarded a parliamentary seat to fight.
Since Arron Banks pledged to give £1 million to Ukip last week, after a dramatic switch of his allegiance from the Conservatives, it has emerged that the insurance tycoon intends to contest a Westminster seat next May.
This week, another donor, Paul Sykes, the Yorkshire businessman who has donated more than £4 million to the party, was made Ukip’s chairman of campaigns. His appointment to the influential post has caused consternation among party members.
A senior Ukip party figure, who asked not to be named, said: “Why on earth has Paul Sykes been appointed to run campaigns? What does he know about campaigning? One stint in 1997 for Jimmy Goldsmith’s Referendum party isn’t good enough.”
A third donor, Alan Bown, who has donated more than £1.3 million in cash and services to the party since 2003, also wields substantial influence in the party, sitting on its national executive committee.
Mr Bown, a retired bookmaker and businessman, has conducted polling for the party and been an integral figure in developing Ukip’s campaign strategy.
Caven Vines, a Ukip councillor in Rotherham and the party’s parliamentary candidate for Wentworth and Dearne, said: “If you’ve got a big enough chequebook, anyone listens to you. It’s not right,” he said, but added “life’s not right”. When he travels to London this week, he said, “I dare say I’ll be asking a few questions” about the issue.
Another parliamentary candidate for Ukip, who asked not to be named, said: “It’s really not good that donors can just rise up in the party because they give money. And it makes you wonder. We’re campaigning along one line, but then it seems we’re becoming just like the rest of them.”
Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, told The Times yesterday that Mr Banks had “been in touch a lot” since his announcement of a £1 million donation last week.
Mr Farage said: “He wants to go ahead as a candidate but he also wants to talk about fundraising for us. He’s very interested in political polling and issues like that but things have been rather busy lately and we haven’t had time to discuss that.”
At last week’s press conference, Mr Banks said that, like other donors, he would be stipulating where his money went. “I think it will be directly to the party but it will be for specific purposes — the election campaign.”
Asked about the idea that he could get involved with directing certain aspects of the election campaign, such as market research, he said: “There’s a whole package of things we might do for Ukip and that might be one of them.”

Sorry you felt the need for profanity, and my points still stand. Farage claimed yesterday on BBC that the flat rate was not a UKIP policy, it has no intention of privatising the NHS, and it has no cabinet positions. I looked on the UKIP website to see if there was mention of such policies and there is not, hence my asking you to say where you had seen this. Moreover, being in a position of influence is not the same thing as having a cabinet position. The power of individuals and the trade unions is something which is wrong with UK politics in general, I agree, as is the sale of peerages and titles, but it is not the preserve of UKIP. Perhaps the country might be better served by having parties paid for by the general public.

Again, my apologies if these points irritate you, but I wish to debate and defeat UKIP with evidence and fact. Hope we can agree on that. :-)

 

[Rascal]

The far right is no worse than the far left you advocate. Socialism is a failed doctrine it cannot work as the people making the decisions become just the same as the far right leaders when they are making the decisions. money and power corrupt

Miliband bangs on about social justice and yet he is a millionaire and he will only become richer I don't see him standing up and saying he and other MPs are paid too much.

He will say or do anything to gain power however at the moment he and is party are not picking up the mood of the masses.
whether you like it or not people can be patriotic without being a fascist or a racist and the looney left just don't get that and that in itself is enough to ensure they will not be in power for a long time to come.

The left have damaged modern English society and they paid the price for that at the last election. Normal working class people have had enough and would sooner vote for a right wing party than the nut jobs who run the Labour party, who in the past were their party of choice.

The left wing bang on about the right but they should look at their own poor policies and crap Mp's, who have gone way over the top placating minorities in order to get elected in areas like Blackburn and Bradford, as the main reason the right is in the ascendancy.

the lib dems have blow it and the labour party is about to do the same if they fail to accept the working classes have had enough of open door policies on immigration, you may think that isn't very PC but as the Electorate are proving it is reality.

You have absoloutly no idea of what my left wing views are. So to say its a failed doctine is nonsense.

What does a persons wealth or background have to do with their political beliefs? I think you will find Miliband and all the party leaders are against the MPs pay rise, but MPs pay is not decided by them.


I am a patriotic Mancunian and Englishman proud to be British and European. I know of none of my friends who have similar views feel the same. Why on earth you think different is beyond me.

Milibands job is to lead the Labour party. A Labour party that are currently ahead in the polls. Whilst there is no room for complacency i think when Cruddas review of policy is published i expect some game changers. Cruddas is a deep political thinker of whom i admire.

An MP has to appeal to his constituents to get elected. That is just plain common sense surely.

Again you bring up this PC stuff. You have no idea of what i consider or even think of PC . But we do not have an open door immigration policy. We are part of a free trade agreement that sees free movement of the people of its member states to be a crucial tenet of that agreement. I happen to think that the only way we will ever limit freedom of movement is to leave the EU. And as im undecided of the value of the EU as we never see both sides of the arguement then for now its better the devil i know.


Now please stop making lazy assumptions of what i believe in and how politically correct you think i am, put your knife away and try and learn what left politics is about.

Cheers

 

[Damocles]

Anybody who says "this is what the left/right don't understand" or refer them as a single block are people whose opinion is essentially worthless and politics is just another football team for them to support

 

[Rascal]

A view from a UKIP'er i know -

In some ways the damage has already been done which is why all those of the right vehemently opposed Labour, immigration should be a POSITIVE force inriching society creating a wider employment range creating jobs and grow economy, but in true Labour fashion it was all about ignorance and completely open borders to anyone without any understanding or control, now we have a situation of strained public services a country with hostile communities in in closed areas, and the government fighting against it, the first thing to do is to get out of Europe which is costing billions to a corrupt and inefficient EU, STOP free flow of people where we have no control of what and who is coming in, next to work closely with communities understanding them and providing tougher laws on any HATE led organization including EDP! And Muslim extremists. You wouldn't have free movement into your home in fact you shut the door and restrict it, the same goes for your nation, in order to have a healthy society with good public services, stable economy and a united community you simply HAVE to AT LEAST restrict what comes in, points based system is used by many nations and is shown to be effective, but we can't since the EU is mainly left led government that wants to restrict Britain and make it take the burden to create an equal Europe.

It is the very reason left wing governments never work, their philosophy is tax anyone that works hard to fund the safety net with the result being a society that is state dependent which stagnates growth in the individual since their is little reward and much to fall back on, knowing that people from poorer countries will obviously vote for these policies large scale immigration is introduced to create a large voting pool to keep them in power, it is the very reason the Tory's are giving much devolution to Scotland it will take away Labours stronghold....all Parties do it and in 12 years of Labour government they engineered this society, and finally the answer to all problems is use this high tax to throw money at any issues thinking this will make the problem better, while insome ways it does it creates beurocracy and ultimately inefficiency as they try as a traditional left policy to control the state put in ridiculous targets and middle management which the public are left baffled with

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Tell your UKIP mate he is a fucking crackpot from me. Ta

 

[BlueHammer85]

A view from a UKIP'er i know -

In some ways the damage has already been done which is why all those of the right vehemently opposed Labour, immigration should be a POSITIVE force inriching society creating a wider employment range creating jobs and grow economy, but in true Labour fashion it was all about ignorance and completely open borders to anyone without any understanding or control, now we have a situation of strained public services a country with hostile communities in in closed areas, and the government fighting against it, the first thing to do is to get out of Europe which is costing billions to a corrupt and inefficient EU, STOP free flow of people where we have no control of what and who is coming in, next to work closely with communities understanding them and providing tougher laws on any HATE led organization including EDP! And Muslim extremists. You wouldn't have free movement into your home in fact you shut the door and restrict it, the same goes for your nation, in order to have a healthy society with good public services, stable economy and a united community you simply HAVE to AT LEAST restrict what comes in, points based system is used by many nations and is shown to be effective, but we can't since the EU is mainly left led government that wants to restrict Britain and make it take the burden to create an equal Europe.

It is the very reason left wing governments never work, their philosophy is tax anyone that works hard to fund the safety net with the result being a society that is state dependent which stagnates growth in the individual since their is little reward and much to fall back on, knowing that people from poorer countries will obviously vote for these policies large scale immigration is introduced to create a large voting pool to keep them in power, it is the very reason the Tory's are giving much devolution to Scotland it will take away Labours stronghold....all Parties do it and in 12 years of Labour government they engineered this society, and finally the answer to all problems is use this high tax to throw money at any issues thinking this will make the problem better, while insome ways it does it creates beurocracy and ultimately inefficiency as they try as a traditional left policy to control the state put in ridiculous targets and middle management which the public are left baffled with

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Tell your UKIP mate he is a fucking crackpot from me. Ta

I'd prefer to give him reasons why

 

[hilts]

A view from a UKIP'er i know -

In some ways the damage has already been done which is why all those of the right vehemently opposed Labour, immigration should be a POSITIVE force inriching society creating a wider employment range creating jobs and grow economy, but in true Labour fashion it was all about ignorance and completely open borders to anyone without any understanding or control, now we have a situation of strained public services a country with hostile communities in in closed areas, and the government fighting against it, the first thing to do is to get out of Europe which is costing billions to a corrupt and inefficient EU, STOP free flow of people where we have no control of what and who is coming in, next to work closely with communities understanding them and providing tougher laws on any HATE led organization including EDP! And Muslim extremists. You wouldn't have free movement into your home in fact you shut the door and restrict it, the same goes for your nation, in order to have a healthy society with good public services, stable economy and a united community you simply HAVE to AT LEAST restrict what comes in, points based system is used by many nations and is shown to be effective, but we can't since the EU is mainly left led government that wants to restrict Britain and make it take the burden to create an equal Europe.

It is the very reason left wing governments never work, their philosophy is tax anyone that works hard to fund the safety net with the result being a society that is state dependent which stagnates growth in the individual since their is little reward and much to fall back on, knowing that people from poorer countries will obviously vote for these policies large scale immigration is introduced to create a large voting pool to keep them in power, it is the very reason the Tory's are giving much devolution to Scotland it will take away Labours stronghold....all Parties do it and in 12 years of Labour government they engineered this society, and finally the answer to all problems is use this high tax to throw money at any issues thinking this will make the problem better, while insome ways it does it creates beurocracy and ultimately inefficiency as they try as a traditional left policy to control the state put in ridiculous targets and middle management which the public are left baffled with

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Tell your UKIP mate he is a fucking crackpot from me. Ta

I'd prefer to give him reasons why

Just call him a black shirt wearing borderline fascist who wants to blow up rusholme, or you could dismiss him as insane, a working class sell out or anything you want really, he must be a truly horrible human being

 

[Damocles]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Tell your UKIP mate he is a fucking crackpot from me. Ta

I'd prefer to give him reasons why

Just call him a brown shirt wearing borderline fascist who wants to blow up rusholme, or you could dismiss him as insane, a working class sell out or anything you want really, he must be a truly horrible human being

Alternatively, build a massive strawman and hope nobody has constantly noticed you doing this

 

[Ronnie the Rep]

How many have actually read their manifesto on their website? I had a quick look this morning and I can see why ordinary, regular voters are looking to them in the next election. Most of their policies offer solutions to the issues most of us scream at the TV about. I am not saying they are right but the current crop of MP's are so divorced from what the public think as to be almost aliens from another planet.

For example, in what possible version of fair is it right to take a 10% increase yourself and then give NHS workers 1%?

BTW, for those that don't know, I am a Tory

 

[BlueHammer85]

I'd prefer to give him reasons why

Just call him a brown shirt wearing borderline fascist who wants to blow up rusholme, or you could dismiss him as insane, a working class sell out or anything you want really, he must be a truly horrible human being

Alternatively, build a massive strawman and hope nobody has constantly noticed you doing this

As in there actually my views ?

Because if they were i really wouldnt give a crap about posting that. Its a forum - people are free to discuss whatever views they wish.

Im more leftie nature, i welcome immigration and want it to work, believe we should live in a fairer society and believe cooperations and corrupt MPs should be held to account etc, could go on. But like to see both sides of any debate.

 

[Rascal]

How many have actually read their manifesto on their website? I had a quick look this morning and I can see why ordinary, regular voters are looking to them in the next election. Most of their policies offer solutions to the issues most of us scream at the TV about. I am not saying they are right but the current crop of MP's are so divorced from what the public think as to be almost aliens from another planet.

For example, in what possible version of fair is it right to take a 10% increase yourself and then give NHS workers 1%?

BTW, for those that don't know, I am a Tory

I wonder if the new UKIP MP will take the pay rise. None of the main party leader support the rise, but MPs dont decide there own pay.

I also notice the UKIP mEPs are not afraid of putting there snouts into the EU expenses trough.

 

[Ronnie the Rep]

How many have actually read their manifesto on their website? I had a quick look this morning and I can see why ordinary, regular voters are looking to them in the next election. Most of their policies offer solutions to the issues most of us scream at the TV about. I am not saying they are right but the current crop of MP's are so divorced from what the public think as to be almost aliens from another planet.

For example, in what possible version of fair is it right to take a 10% increase yourself and then give NHS workers 1%?

BTW, for those that don't know, I am a Tory

I wonder if the new UKIP MP will take the pay rise. None of the main party leader support the rise, but MPs dont decide there own pay.

I also notice the UKIP mEPs are not afraid of putting there snouts into the EU expenses trough.

I am sure he will but the perception of the main career politicians is still the same. Out of touch,greedy, arrogant etc. Farage is a credible threat to them even as a protest vote in non-marginal constituencies.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Not as bad as 37% or so of voters saying they will vote for those millionaire socialists that is the labour party. any clown who votes for that twat Milliband should be stabbed in the face

Ah! Debating skills of the far right. Stab someone in the face for having a political opinion thats of the left.

Nice touch pal.

The far right is no worse than the far left you advocate. Socialism is a failed doctrine it cannot work as the people making the decisions become just the same as the far right leaders when they are making the decisions. money and power corrupt

Miliband bangs on about social justice and yet he is a millionaire and he will only become richer I don't see him standing up and saying he and other MPs are paid too much.

He will say or do anything to gain power however at the moment he and is party are not picking up the mood of the masses.
whether you like it or not people can be patriotic without being a fascist or a racist and the looney left just don't get that and that in itself is enough to ensure they will not be in power for a long time to come.

The left have damaged modern English society and they paid the price for that at the last election. Normal working class people have had enough and would sooner vote for a right wing party than the nut jobs who run the Labour party, who in the past were their party of choice.

The left wing bang on about the right but they should look at their own poor policies and crap Mp's, who have gone way over the top placating minorities in order to get elected in areas like Blackburn and Bradford, as the main reason the right is in the ascendancy.

the lib dems have blow it and the labour party is about to do the same if they fail to accept the working classes have had enough of open door policies on immigration, you may think that isn't very PC but as the Electorate are proving it is reality.

Once again you confuse Socialism with Communism......they are miles apart. Look to Norway, Sweden and Denmark for examples of Social democracy

 

[Gabriel]

How many have actually read their manifesto on their website? I had a quick look this morning and I can see why ordinary, regular voters are looking to them in the next election. Most of their policies offer solutions to the issues most of us scream at the TV about. I am not saying they are right but the current crop of MP's are so divorced from what the public think as to be almost aliens from another planet.

For example, in what possible version of fair is it right to take a 10% increase yourself and then give NHS workers 1%?

BTW, for those that don't know, I am a Tory

I wonder if the new UKIP MP will take the pay rise. None of the main party leader support the rise, but MPs dont decide there own pay.

I also notice the UKIP mEPs are not afraid of putting there snouts into the EU expenses trough.

As do all other MEPs from the UK, to be fair. It is, after all, a very large trough.

I've no problem with MPs being awarded a 9% pay increase, but I would like to see them prohibited from holding all other positions whilst serving, prohibited from employing family members and friends, having to rent out rooms in their publicly funded London addresses, if they have one, and, if ousted at the polls, be open to investigation in the span of the following parliament to see whether or not they have exploited their previous position to feather their nest. Last one would be harder to achieve, granted, but there should be some form of regulation.

 

[Len Rum]

How many have actually read their manifesto on their website? I had a quick look this morning and I can see why ordinary, regular voters are looking to them in the next election. Most of their policies offer solutions to the issues most of us scream at the TV about. I am not saying they are right but the current crop of MP's are so divorced from what the public think as to be almost aliens from another planet.

For example, in what possible version of fair is it right to take a 10% increase yourself and then give NHS workers 1%?

BTW, for those that don't know, I am a Tory

Being a bit patronising aren't we Ron?
UKIP are offering solutions which according to you aren't right (and therefore presumably you are not voting for them), but you then state you can understand why "ordinary,regular voters" are looking to them. I assume you don't put yourself in this category of voters?

 

[Rascal]

How many have actually read their manifesto on their website? I had a quick look this morning and I can see why ordinary, regular voters are looking to them in the next election. Most of their policies offer solutions to the issues most of us scream at the TV about. I am not saying they are right but the current crop of MP's are so divorced from what the public think as to be almost aliens from another planet.

For example, in what possible version of fair is it right to take a 10% increase yourself and then give NHS workers 1%?

BTW, for those that don't know, I am a Tory

I wonder if the new UKIP MP will take the pay rise. None of the main party leader support the rise, but MPs dont decide there own pay.

I also notice the UKIP mEPs are not afraid of putting there snouts into the EU expenses trough.

As do all other MEPs from the UK, to be fair. It is, after all, a very large trough.

I've no problem with MPs being awarded a 9% pay increase, but I would like to see them prohibited from holding all other positions whilst serving, prohibited from employing family members and friends, having to rent out rooms in their publicly funded London addresses, if they have one, and, if ousted at the polls, be open to investigation in the span of the following parliament to see whether or not they have exploited their previous position to feather their nest. Last one would be harder to achieve, granted, but there should be some form of regulation.

I agree. I would like to see our MPs paid properly.An attractive salary may make politics a choice for a wider spectrum of people than the current batch of carearists. I believe they are not paid enough. If they are well paid then they would have no need for any expenses at all and they could then employ who they wanted at their own expense. and no need for 2nd jobs which i would ban. They should serve the people not themselves.

I would also turn the Palace of Westminster into a museum and build a new parliament somewhere in the midlands with an attached accommodation block. A new parliament building may reduce the bear pit nature of the HoC which many find a turn off and it could incorporate modern technology in the chamber to make politics more open to the public rather following its current archaic traditions.

 

[Gabriel]

I wonder if the new UKIP MP will take the pay rise. None of the main party leader support the rise, but MPs dont decide there own pay.

I also notice the UKIP mEPs are not afraid of putting there snouts into the EU expenses trough.

As do all other MEPs from the UK, to be fair. It is, after all, a very large trough.

I've no problem with MPs being awarded a 9% pay increase, but I would like to see them prohibited from holding all other positions whilst serving, prohibited from employing family members and friends, having to rent out rooms in their publicly funded London addresses, if they have one, and, if ousted at the polls, be open to investigation in the span of the following parliament to see whether or not they have exploited their previous position to feather their nest. Last one would be harder to achieve, granted, but there should be some form of regulation.

I agree. I would like to see our MPs paid properly.An attractive salary may make politics a choice for a wider spectrum of people than the current batch of carearists. I believe they are not paid enough. If they are well paid then they would have no need for any expenses at all and they could then employ who they wanted at their own expense. and no need for 2nd jobs which i would ban. They should serve the people not themselves.

I would also turn the Palace of Westminster into a museum and build a new parliament somewhere in the midlands with an attached accommodation block. A new parliament building may reduce the bear pit nature of the HoC which many find a turn off and it could incorporate modern technology in the chamber to make politics more open to the public rather following its current archaic traditions.

Would that be the new English Parliament? ;-)

Think there is actually merit in that proposal, though Westminster should still be used as the UK parliament whilst there is still demand for it.

 

[TGR]

A view from a UKIP'er i know -

In some ways the damage has already been done which is why all those of the right vehemently opposed Labour, immigration should be a POSITIVE force inriching society creating a wider employment range creating jobs and grow economy, but in true Labour fashion it was all about ignorance and completely open borders to anyone without any understanding or control, now we have a situation of strained public services a country with hostile communities in in closed areas, and the government fighting against it, the first thing to do is to get out of Europe which is costing billions to a corrupt and inefficient EU, STOP free flow of people where we have no control of what and who is coming in, next to work closely with communities understanding them and providing tougher laws on any HATE led organization including EDP! And Muslim extremists. You wouldn't have free movement into your home in fact you shut the door and restrict it, the same goes for your nation, in order to have a healthy society with good public services, stable economy and a united community you simply HAVE to AT LEAST restrict what comes in, points based system is used by many nations and is shown to be effective, but we can't since the EU is mainly left led government that wants to restrict Britain and make it take the burden to create an equal Europe.

It is the very reason left wing governments never work, their philosophy is tax anyone that works hard to fund the safety net with the result being a society that is state dependent which stagnates growth in the individual since their is little reward and much to fall back on, knowing that people from poorer countries will obviously vote for these policies large scale immigration is introduced to create a large voting pool to keep them in power, it is the very reason the Tory's are giving much devolution to Scotland it will take away Labours stronghold....all Parties do it and in 12 years of Labour government they engineered this society, and finally the answer to all problems is use this high tax to throw money at any issues thinking this will make the problem better, while insome ways it does it creates beurocracy and ultimately inefficiency as they try as a traditional left policy to control the state put in ridiculous targets and middle management which the public are left baffled with

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Tell your UKIP mate he is a fucking crackpot from me. Ta

Excellent, objective, powerful reasoning Rascal (again).
Well done.