The General Election Thread

[malg]

I do wonder if Milliband's utterly ridiculous carved stone gimmick will prove to be his 'Sheffield Rally moment'.

Seriously, who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

I think the idea of having 6 guiding principles that are literally set in stone for your term in Government is a very good idea.

The principles themselves were badly designed but the idea was excellent and every party should do it. Manifestos are essentially broad policy documents detailing views on every issue possible.

The one thing that the Government is absolutely crying out for, are clear and concise pass/failure metrics for their term. 5 years down the line if those policies weren't met then the country kicks them out. At the moment, one of the big issues with politics in general is that all sides can argue all issues because nobody has given specific, measurable goals on what they want to achieve publically.

We should encourage more people to do this, not less.

They all have a manifesto for that. I only saw this tonight, and my initial impression was that it was crass. Even worse was that I read (don't know if true) that he wants to put it in the garden of No10. If that's true, then it's nonsense. The pledges are just dribble as well though. It's like an exercise given to 15 year old students by the teacher - 'come up with pledges you'd make if you were PM'. I've said it already, but the NHS one is so vague that it's laughable.

As for encouraging more to do it, I'm guessing you're on about politicians, well all we're asking for is for them to lie more, but put it in stone. Politics are bad enough, and the one thing it doesn't need is more gimmicks (Ed seems to have gone for a couple now, this silly monolith thingy, and the horrid thing with Brand. At least the Brand thing will give him a lot of exposure to the youth vote).

 

[Damocles]

I do wonder if Milliband's utterly ridiculous carved stone gimmick will prove to be his 'Sheffield Rally moment'.

Seriously, who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

I think the idea of having 6 guiding principles that are literally set in stone for your term in Government is a very good idea.

The principles themselves were badly designed but the idea was excellent and every party should do it. Manifestos are essentially broad policy documents detailing views on every issue possible.

The one thing that the Government is absolutely crying out for, are clear and concise pass/failure metrics for their term. 5 years down the line if those policies weren't met then the country kicks them out. At the moment, one of the big issues with politics in general is that all sides can argue all issues because nobody has given specific, measurable goals on what they want to achieve publically.

We should encourage more people to do this, not less.

They all have a manifesto for that. I only saw this tonight, and my initial impression was that it was crass. Even worse was that I read (don't know if true) that he wants to put it in the garden of No10. If that's true, then it's nonsense. The pledges are just dribble as well though. It's like an exercise given to 15 year old students by the teacher - 'come up with pledges you'd make if you were PM'. I've said it already, but the NHS one is so vague that it's laughable.

As for encouraging more to do it, I'm guessing you're on about politicians, well all we're asking for is for them to lie more, but put it in stone. Politics are bad enough, and the one thing it doesn't need is more gimmicks (Ed seems to have gone for a couple now, this silly monolith thingy, and the horrid thing with Brand. At least the Brand thing will give him a lot of exposure to the youth vote).

Agreed on the actual things he has in stone.

But my point about encouraging more politicians to do things like this is because we need pass/failure criteria for Governments. We need them to tell us exactly, not in vague terms but EXACTLY what their Government should be judged on in the next 5 years and then we can evaluate their success at the end. Not a manifesto which are a policy position document really with a couple of terms buried in there, 5 specific and measurable goals within specific timescales which the electorate can put a cross or tick next to.

It's not a perfect idea but it;s a step in the right direction.

 

[Chancy Termites]

I do wonder if Milliband's utterly ridiculous carved stone gimmick will prove to be his 'Sheffield Rally moment'.

Seriously, who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

I think the idea of having 6 guiding principles that are literally set in stone for your term in Government is a very good idea.

The principles themselves were badly designed but the idea was excellent and every party should do it. Manifestos are essentially broad policy documents detailing views on every issue possible.

The one thing that the Government is absolutely crying out for, are clear and concise pass/failure metrics for their term. 5 years down the line if those policies weren't met then the country kicks them out. At the moment, one of the big issues with politics in general is that all sides can argue all issues because nobody has given specific, measurable goals on what they want to achieve publically.

We should encourage more people to do this, not less.

UKIP published their manifesto and had their policies' costings independently audited; an altogether more grown up way of making a commitment.

 

[Damocles]

I do wonder if Milliband's utterly ridiculous carved stone gimmick will prove to be his 'Sheffield Rally moment'.

Seriously, who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

I think the idea of having 6 guiding principles that are literally set in stone for your term in Government is a very good idea.

The principles themselves were badly designed but the idea was excellent and every party should do it. Manifestos are essentially broad policy documents detailing views on every issue possible.

The one thing that the Government is absolutely crying out for, are clear and concise pass/failure metrics for their term. 5 years down the line if those policies weren't met then the country kicks them out. At the moment, one of the big issues with politics in general is that all sides can argue all issues because nobody has given specific, measurable goals on what they want to achieve publically.

We should encourage more people to do this, not less.

UKIP published their manifesto and had their policies' costings independently audited; an altogether more grown up way of making a commitment.

Miliband has already pledged that all manifesto commitments will be audited by the OBR if elected.

Still not a dramatic enough gesture though. I think people on here under estimate the power of symbology when it comes to memory recall and the like. Words are often forgotten as theyare used too freely, ignoring a big fuck off stone in the back garden is much harder to do and much harder to slip out of.

 

[BigOscar]

I think the idea of having 6 guiding principles that are literally set in stone for your term in Government is a very good idea.

The principles themselves were badly designed but the idea was excellent and every party should do it. Manifestos are essentially broad policy documents detailing views on every issue possible.

The one thing that the Government is absolutely crying out for, are clear and concise pass/failure metrics for their term. 5 years down the line if those policies weren't met then the country kicks them out. At the moment, one of the big issues with politics in general is that all sides can argue all issues because nobody has given specific, measurable goals on what they want to achieve publically.

We should encourage more people to do this, not less.

They all have a manifesto for that. I only saw this tonight, and my initial impression was that it was crass. Even worse was that I read (don't know if true) that he wants to put it in the garden of No10. If that's true, then it's nonsense. The pledges are just dribble as well though. It's like an exercise given to 15 year old students by the teacher - 'come up with pledges you'd make if you were PM'. I've said it already, but the NHS one is so vague that it's laughable.

As for encouraging more to do it, I'm guessing you're on about politicians, well all we're asking for is for them to lie more, but put it in stone. Politics are bad enough, and the one thing it doesn't need is more gimmicks (Ed seems to have gone for a couple now, this silly monolith thingy, and the horrid thing with Brand. At least the Brand thing will give him a lot of exposure to the youth vote).

Agreed on the actual things he has in stone.

But my point about encouraging more politicians to do things like this is because we need pass/failure criteria for Governments. We need them to tell us exactly, not in vague terms but EXACTLY what their Government should be judged on in the next 5 years and then we can evaluate their success at the end. Not a manifesto which are a policy position document really with a couple of terms buried in there, 5 specific and measurable goals within specific timescales which the electorate can put a cross or tick next to.

It's not a perfect idea but it;s a step in the right direction.

Agree with you on that. Treat it like companies pitching why they should manage your project instead of a popularitty contest. Make them map out what they are going to do, when they are going to do it and how much it will cost. Then people can challenge them on the specifics and debate how it all would work. Then people vote for a plan of action, not a person or a party. Take the bullshit PR tricks and petty bitchiness out of it. Then you also have something to measure them against and hold them to account if they don't follow the plan they set out and you voted for. It'll never happen, as democracy seems to be going in the other direction, more about sound bites and mud slinging, while trying your hardest to avoid saying anything that anyone can hold you accountable for or rebuke.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I think the idea of having 6 guiding principles that are literally set in stone for your term in Government is a very good idea.

The principles themselves were badly designed but the idea was excellent and every party should do it. Manifestos are essentially broad policy documents detailing views on every issue possible.

The one thing that the Government is absolutely crying out for, are clear and concise pass/failure metrics for their term. 5 years down the line if those policies weren't met then the country kicks them out. At the moment, one of the big issues with politics in general is that all sides can argue all issues because nobody has given specific, measurable goals on what they want to achieve publically.

We should encourage more people to do this, not less.

UKIP published their manifesto and had their policies' costings independently audited; an altogether more grown up way of making a commitment.

Miliband has already pledged that all manifesto commitments will be audited by the OBR if elected.

Still not a dramatic enough gesture though. I think people on here under estimate the power of symbology when it comes to memory recall and the like. Words are often forgotten as theyare used too freely, ignoring a big fuck off stone in the back garden is much harder to do and much harder to slip out of.

why not have them audited before they commit to them, so that they know they're enforceable and reasonable?

Unless they know, of course, that most of them are meaningless.

 

[Chancy Termites]

UKIP published their manifesto and had their policies' costings independently audited; an altogether more grown up way of making a commitment.

Miliband has already pledged that all manifesto commitments will be audited by the OBR if elected.

Still not a dramatic enough gesture though. I think people on here under estimate the power of symbology when it comes to memory recall and the like. Words are often forgotten as theyare used too freely, ignoring a big fuck off stone in the back garden is much harder to do and much harder to slip out of.

why not have them audited before they commit to them, so that they know they're enforceable and reasonable?

Unless they know, of course, that most of them are meaningless.

I'm quite certain you answered your own question there.

 

[Lucky13]

This a fully costed promise from our PM that affects everyone

This is a non costed vague group of words on a #edstone , the NHS pledge is particularly galling , Labour run the NHS in Wales and it performs poorly compared to England and not forgetting Andy Burnhams Mid Staffs where they just kill you.

 

[malg]

Bunged the BBC on this morning, and these are the messages from the two big parties:

Conservative - tax cuts.
Labour - the Conservatives will privatise the NHS.

Well, all that electioneering, and we're down to the usual shite. My first thought was 'what was the fucking point of the whole election?'

 

[Len Rum]

I do wonder if Milliband's utterly ridiculous carved stone gimmick will prove to be his 'Sheffield Rally moment'.

Seriously, who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

Don't you worry mate.

WE'RE ALRIGHT
WE'RE ALRIGHT

 

[Lucky13]

After coming down from the mountain with his #edstone , Ed the Red promises to walk on water.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I do wonder if Milliband's utterly ridiculous carved stone gimmick will prove to be his 'Sheffield Rally moment'.

Seriously, who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

Don't you worry mate.

WE'RE ALRIGHT
WE'RE ALRIGHT

Whilst equally unstatesmanlike, at least Kinnock's faux pas was a fleeting one. Miliband's, if he's elected, and once he's secured the necessary planning permission from Westminster City Council and listed buildings consent from English Heritage, will stand as a more permanent testament to utterly poor judgement and crassness.

I wonder of it's the first such stone in history to be made obsolete before it was put to the use it was intended because of the very fact if its existence. There's definitely something existential in there.

Whatever happens, it'll fetch a few quid on eBay in a decade's time.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

He's not the messiah he's a very naught boy!

 

[Gray]

A hung election result with no party having an overall majority and the frightening prospect of having the SNP dictate policies.

If only the Scots had got independence, they could have gone and lain in their own bed whilst we got on with things down here.

 

[mcfc1632]

Of all the party leaders Milliband is definitely the most likely to be an alien lizard.

Party politics aside and just for fun - anyone got the skills to compare that picture of Ed in a suit to the recent Dr Who baddy - The silence. It is just his stance and the way his hands are - it is all I can see when I look at that picture

 

[Bluemanc100]

This a fully costed promise from our PM that affects everyone

This is a non costed vague group of words on a #edstone , the NHS pledge is particularly galling , Labour run the NHS in Wales and it performs poorly compared to England and not forgetting Andy Burnhams Mid Staffs where they just kill you.

Total shit....... the Mid-Staffs scores were not too dissimilar from other top heavy beaurocratic hospitals now coming to light

My wife worked there till taking early retirement from the NHS. She was a senior ward manager (nurse practitioner) and her scores for the ward were off the chart *positive..

So much so that she had failing managers from the hospital and others visit for mentoring.......

 

[law74]

<a class="postlink" href="http://conservativehome.blogs.com/files/ge_4pg-newspaper.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://conservativehome.blogs.com/files ... spaper.pdf</a>

"If we don't deliver, kick me out"

Ok then

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Here's something interesting I didn't even realise until today. Discussing the election with my sister in law the other day who said that the Coalition government had brought growth.

But checking the figures, growth at/just after the last election was actually quite strong at 2.5% in the third quarter of 2010. Austerity seems to have put the brakes on it and is still affecting it. You can't build a strong economy without strong wage growth and we're still not seeing that despite all the conditions supposedly being in place.

 

[SWP's back]

Makes me proud to be a Tory seeing that growth.

Good work Dave and George.

 

[urmston]

Makes me proud to be a Tory seeing that growth.

Good work Dave and George.

There's no real recovery.

Real recoveries don't involve lots of poverty wage job creation, zero hour contracts and use of food banks.

Labour would have romped this election if they hadn't thrown away Scotland in the most careless and incompetent way imaginable.