The Independent Group

[bluethrunthru]

This is my thoughts too.

Watching that TV program - though i can't remember the name of it - that discussed the new universal credit, watching folks well below the breadline suffering, and then these elite *ankers in Parliament are talking about austerity - makes you wonder how much more austere these people will make this country.

But, those things aside - who is funding this new 'party' - how are these mp's getting paid now they have walked out on their respective parties?

well Mayday says its over - Eeyore has further cuts written in to this years spending - not like politicians to lie is it?

 

[Blue Hefner]

Chukka Umuna was on the "ways to change the world" podcast - it's a good series and hosted by Krishnan Guru-Murthy and this is a good episode

 

[inbetween]

The first election victory for Blair was numerous things. I'd disagree that it was simply a protest vote, unless you count people just wanting a change as a 'protest'. Labour nearly won under Kinnock, had high expectations under Smith and in some ways Blair was deemed a step too far to the centre. Either way it was a movement that had grown over a long period, which isn't what I would class as defining a protest vote.

Had it not been for the Iraq war then I think Blair or at least Labour in the form of a Blairite government would still be in power.

The move to the right and the right of the Tories came purely from the UKIP pressure campaigns led by Farage. That is the only reason Cameron won a majority to get a referendum and the public couldn't decide between Brown and Cameron.

The question stands how would Blair or someone like Cameron do vs Corbyn without Brexit on the agenda. That is where you find where the country sits and I just cannot see how Corbyn would win.

 

[aguero93:20]

But, those things aside - who is funding this new 'party' - how are these mp's getting paid now they have walked out on their respective parties?

MPs are paid by parliament, not their political party.

 

[Armchair Supporter]

I don't really understand your argument that it was a protest vote. Labour were clearly a government in waiting for a couple of years before the election - they gained votes because they were saying what people wanted to hear, with a programme people wanted enacted. Isn't that the point of a political party? You can term everything a protest vote if that was.

Well, as i remember it at the time,
Major winning the election erlier was a bit of a shock. Most expected Labour to win. For the next 5 years, The tories continued to fall apart and disgrace themselves to such an extend they became unelectable in 1997.
The swing to labour in 1997 was enormous. That swing was (in my opinion, having lived through the previous governments) unnaturally high as the populace wanted to get the tories out of government without delay.

Yes there were other factors, Tony's clear ability, The 4th term blues, a move of Labour to the right and closer to more centrist (is that even a word?) populist policies.

Any party going up for it in that election would have won. Anything to get the Tories out. It was a protest vote. The huge swing on the night tells you that was the case.

 

[Henkeman]

Well, as i remember it at the time,
Major winning the election erlier was a bit of a shock. Most expected Labour to win. For the next 5 years, The tories continued to fall apart and disgrace themselves to such an extend they became unelectable in 1997.
The swing to labour in 1997 was enormous. That swing was (in my opinion, having lived through the previous governments) unnaturally high as the populace wanted to get the tories out of government without delay.

Yes there were other factors, Tony's clear ability, The 4th term blues, a move of Labour to the right and closer to more centrist (is that even a word?) populist policies.

Any party going up for it in that election would have won. Anything to get the Tories out. It was a protest vote. The huge swing on the night tells you that was the case.

Hmm. Part of the reason the Tories fell apart, particularly in the last couple of years, was because they were faced with a Blair-led Labour Party who were popular and a breath of fresh air. I still don't see that as a protest, I see it as the public having had enough and choosing an alternative. Given their vote held up almost identically four years later, I would argue that they earned votes and won support, that they retained for a remarkably long period.

 

[Armchair Supporter]

Hmm. Part of the reason the Tories fell apart, particularly in the last couple of years, was because they were faced with a Blair-led Labour Party who were popular and a breath of fresh air. I still don't see that as a protest, I see it as the public having had enough and choosing an alternative. Given their vote held up almost identically four years later, I would argue that they earned votes and won support, that they retained for a remarkably long period.

Well then let's disagree. I remember the night they won, the palpable relief felt by all regardless of political loyalty that the Tories were out. I remember the partying and the cheering and roaring and fireworks etc on the night and the days after.

Not that i would call myself a labour voter, but i voted for Labour in that election. You had to. It was a Tory sham at the time.
I agree with your last part though, once in, they really did earn their vote. Much more so than i remember the Tories ever doing.

 

[Bluesince1979]

He's right though. The ballot paper has his name on it, not 'whoever Labour have selected'. People may have felt they were voting for Labour, or for Corbyn, but in reality they voted to give him a 5 year term as MP.

Under the labour party manifesto though ...?

 

[aguero93:20]

Under the labour party manifesto though ...?

Nothing stopping them keeping key policies from it, also there's nothing binding any Labour MP to that manifesto as it was rejected by the electorate. It's a weak argument.

 

[Ban-jani]

The 1st was primarily a protest vote.

You keep saying it wasn't and i'll just keep saying it was.

I’m not saying it wasn’t - I’m just saying his campaign was probably the best we’ve ever seen regardless.