The Invisible Man (Soriano) speaks...

blueparrot

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We are very lucky in a lot of senses. I don't think anyone can deny that.

In others you are talking nonsense. Price rises are not necessary because of FFP, this has been proven time and time again but some don't want to listen. Cheapest tickets is also misleading. Many have seen rise upon rise, year after year.

The Stockport thing, well hopefully it's something you regret as it doesn't strengthen your argument in any way. And probably best not to use a rag insult (all blues are from Stockport) when effectively telling blues to fuck off.

One important thing that you missed IMO, is the desire that most supporters have to feel part of the club. What attracted many of us to City and what kept many of us going through the dark times was the feeling that we were part of it, we were all in it together.

I think a lot of us have lost that feeling, and for me the people involved at the club can't get that back they're not trying hard enough.
Price rises are not about FFP now and going forward, but previously when we thought we were just scraping in the FFP rules before they changed them so that we failed then at that time every extra few pounds counted. But you are correct it shouldn't be used as an excuse now.
 

moomba

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Price rises are not about FFP now and going forward, but previously when we thought we were just scraping in the FFP rules before they changed them so that we failed then at that time every extra few pounds counted. But you are correct it shouldn't be used as an excuse now.

I don't believe ticket prices had any impact on our FFP fine. We could have charged double and still would have failed it due to other reasons.
 

blueparrot

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I don't believe ticket prices had any impact on our FFP fine. We could have charged double and still would have failed it due to other reasons.
No I know it had no impact on the fine and @prestwichblue would know this, what I meant was before the rules got changed we thought we were going to scrape through, but only just so the match day income at that time could have been the difference between sanctions or not. As it happens when they changed the rule it didn't matter but the club wouldn't have known that. As I say it's irrelevant now though.
 

BlueDeadHead

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Don't take this the wrong way and you can correct me if I'm wrong but don't you reside in the states? If you do then surely something such as ticket prices has no effect on you either way and you're not in a position to say everything is ok.

In a sense we are the luckiest fans on the planet. There's so much that our owners have given us it would be a nonsense to suggest otherwise. That doesn't mean when it comes to important matters such as ticket prices we should allow ourselves to be bent over and accept every price hike.

Yep I live in the states where a 60 pound ticket for the type of game like PSG v. City would be an absolute steal. No doubt that that fact affects my perspective on WHAT a reasonable price is.

I am not saying everything is ok or that longstanding fans are not being priced out. I am saying that that goes hand in hand with being a really big club (top 10 in the world which is what we now are). There is a price for success and match going fans are starting to see it. I am not happy to see these fans priced out...I just am not surprised.

I always laugh when someone on the transfer board says (about a fee for a player) "it's not our money so why should we complain about the price we paid." Well, it is our money. The money you guys pay for tickets, the money we all pay for merchandise, the money I pay for television ($2,000 per year just for football). If we want trophies we have to pay for it and there is no reason to expect ownership to give us trophies for free.

Ultimately the ownership (IMO) will charge what the market will pay. If there are empty seats against PSG that is clear evidence they got the pricing wrong. If that tie comes back to Manchester and it is tight...I don't expect to see a lot of empty seats though. If the return leg is meaningful, I think we sell out that game. If I am wrong, the next time they will probably charge less. I don't think a protest will make a bit of difference.
 

jrb

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H
Yep I live in the states where a 60 pound ticket for the type of game like PSG v. City would be an absolute steal. No doubt that that fact affects my perspective on WHAT a reasonable price is.

I am not saying everything is ok or that longstanding fans are not being priced out. I am saying that that goes hand in hand with being a really big club (top 10 in the world which is what we now are). There is a price for success and match going fans are starting to see it. I am not happy to see these fans priced out...I just am not surprised.

I always laugh when someone on the transfer board says (about a fee for a player) "it's not our money so why should we complain about the price we paid." Well, it is our money. The money you guys pay for tickets, the money we all pay for merchandise, the money I pay for television ($2,000 per year just for football). If we want trophies we have to pay for it and there is no reason to expect ownership to give us trophies for free.

Ultimately the ownership (IMO) will charge what the market will pay. If there are empty seats against PSG that is clear evidence they got the pricing wrong. If that tie comes back to Manchester and it is tight...I don't expect to see a lot of empty seats though. If the return leg is meaningful, I think we sell out that game. If I am wrong, the next time they will probably charge less. I don't think a protest will make a bit of difference.

Nothing wrong with that.

We might be a top 10 club now, but we don't have the support of a top10 club.

I can think of the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, who have a much bigger and wealthier support than we do. After that you can compare us with the like's of Atletico, Liverpool, and Spurs, who are all expanding their stadiums, and have a larger and more wealthier fan base. You can then throw in PSG with a 48,000 seater stadium, and West Ham who are moving to the 60,000 Olympic stadium. I've not even touched on the likes of AC, Milan, Juve, as Seria A is currently on it's arse. Yes we're up there, but our mainly local and poorer fan base is no match against Europe's biggest and wealthier clubs, who can also call on legions of Tourists, Day Trippers, and Half and Halfers.
 
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BlueDeadHead

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Nothing wrong with that.

We might be a top 10 club now, but we don't have the support of a top10 club.

I can think of the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, who have a much bigger and wealthier support than we do. After that you can compare us with the like's of Atletico, Liverpool, and Spurs, who are all expanding their stadiums, and have a larger and more wealthier fan base. You can then throw in PSG with a 48,000 seater stadium, and West Ham who are moving to the 60,000 Olympic stadium. I've not even touched on the likes of AC, Milan, Juve, as Seria A is currently on it's arse. Yes we;re up there, but our mainly local and poorer fan base is no match against Europe's biggest and wealthier clubs, who can also call on legions of Tourists, Day Trippers, and half and halfers.

All that is true. We will know one way or the other when we actually play.
 

Prestwich_Blue

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No I know it had no impact on the fine and @prestwichblue would know this, what I meant was before the rules got changed we thought we were going to scrape through, but only just so the match day income at that time could have been the difference between sanctions or not. As it happens when they changed the rule it didn't matter but the club wouldn't have known that. As I say it's irrelevant now though.
That's quite right. £3-4m could have made a difference but that was in 2013. There have been 3 prices rises since. As match-day prices stand you could get a cheaper ticket for a game against Stoke at Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and the rags. Our prices are up there with those clubs. There's no need for them to go up further.
 

blueparrot

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That's quite right. £3-4m could have made a difference but that was in 2013. There have been 3 prices rises since. As match-day prices stand you could get a cheaper ticket for a game against Stoke at Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and the rags. Our prices are up there with those clubs. There's no need for them to go up further.
Yes, that's what I was meaning, quite agree FFP has no influence on prices now.
 

Centurions

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Not 100% sure at the moment...
That's quite right. £3-4m could have made a difference but that was in 2013. There have been 3 prices rises since. As match-day prices stand you could get a cheaper ticket for a game against Stoke at Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and the rags. Our prices are up there with those clubs. There's no need for them to go up further.
Irrelevant to the discussion perhaps but I had it in mind that we 'failed' by just over the £10 million mark once UEFA moved the goalposts?
 

Prestwich_Blue

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Irrelevant to the discussion perhaps but I had it in mind that we 'failed' by just over the £10 million mark once UEFA moved the goalposts?
Our aggregate losses were £150m for those first two years. We could add back £35m, leaving £115m and I believe the wages that we were planning to use to avoid sanctions were £80m. So using those would have shown an adjusted deficit of around £35m.

We were allowed a break-even deficit of up to €45m, which is £37-38m. So if we'd been allowed to use that £80m in mitigation, we'd have scraped home by £2-3m. But because we weren't, we failed by over €100m or just under £80m. So in the 2013 financial year, every penny of revenue was important. In the 2017 FY, £3m will be completely insignificant and largely irrelevant.
 

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