The IRA

[SWP's back]

You know fuck all of the Taliban if you think they have been fighting invaders for hundreds of years.

The same confederation of tribes are now fighting under the name of or for the Taliban. Same shit different day as far as they are concerned.

Not at all. They are of the same nationality but are of completely different political persuasion and you're guilty of ignorance.

What you are implying is akin to saying that the Germans that served in Iraq are Nazi's.

 

[mammutly]

You know fuck all of the Taliban if you think they have been fighting invaders for hundreds of years.

The same confederation of tribes are now fighting under the name of or for the Taliban. Same shit different day as far as they are concerned.

Not at all. They are of the same nationality but are of completely different political persuasion and you're guilty of ignorance.

What you are implying is akin to saying that the Germans that served in Iraq are Nazi's.

So the Taliban are not employing the same tribal fighters who fought the Russians?

 

[SWP's back]

The same confederation of tribes are now fighting under the name of or for the Taliban. Same shit different day as far as they are concerned.

Not at all. They are of the same nationality but are of completely different political persuasion and you're guilty of ignorance.

What you are implying is akin to saying that the Germans that served in Iraq are Nazi's.

So the Taliban are not employing the same tribal fighters who fought the Russians?

You really want to read up on the Taliban.

 

[mammutly]

Not at all. They are of the same nationality but are of completely different political persuasion and you're guilty of ignorance.

What you are implying is akin to saying that the Germans that served in Iraq are Nazi's.

So the Taliban are not employing the same tribal fighters who fought the Russians?

You really want to read up on the Taliban.

Here you go mate. It's pretty concise:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/18/us-afghanistan-conference-insurgents-idUSTRE66H17H20100718" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/ ... 7H20100718</a>

 

[SWP's back]

So the Taliban are not employing the same tribal fighters who fought the Russians?

You really want to read up on the Taliban.

Here you go mate. It's pretty concise:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/18/us-afghanistan-conference-insurgents-idUSTRE66H17H20100718" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/ ... 7H20100718</a>

How does that show you are correct that they have been fighting invaders for hundreds of years.

Here's a tip. It doesn't.

 

[mammutly]

You really want to read up on the Taliban.

Here you go mate. It's pretty concise:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/18/us-afghanistan-conference-insurgents-idUSTRE66H17H20100718" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/ ... 7H20100718</a>

How does that show you are correct that they have been fighting invaders for hundreds of years.

Here's a tip. It doesn't.

Same groups, different alliances. Most of the Hezb-I-Islami fighters joined the Taliban because they are the ones currently paying wages. They are still using the same weapons the Americans gave them to fight the soviets. The Haqqani network is closely allied with the Taliban and is a loose federation of tribes who came together to fight the soviets, again sponsored by the USA. These are the same fighters who are now battling the international forces led by the USA.

Before that you can go back to the threee anglo -afghan wars if you like or the civil wars of 1920'' and 30's. In many ways the history of afghanistan is tribal wars punctuated by regular foriegn invasion.


The wiki page is quite a good starting point:

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Afghanistan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Afghanistan</a>

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Kunts the fucking lot of them. Sickens me to my stomach that a City fan can come on here and say they have respect for them.
Take a good look at yourself ffs. Murdering scum and twats like the op want to give them respect.
Fuck off arsehole.

You know only one side and don't want to look at the other. That makes you ignorant.

I can respect the bravery and professionalism of British soldiers who put their lives on the line trying to do an impossible job in Ireland. I can do that despite knowing that some of them murdered innocent people. If the other side were were simply"murdering scum and twats" as you say, why did more than 150 of them get killed on active service and why did the war last more than 30 years?

Are the Taliban in Afghanistan merely "murdering scum and twats" too? They've been fighting invaders of one kind or another for hundreds of years of years and kicked the arse of the Russians, then the biggest army in the world. I don't believe in the Taliban cause and I don't like much of what they do. I can however tell you categorically that they are brave and determined fighters.

A lot of military analysts have looked at the tactics and organisation of the IRA and concluded they were a formidable enemy.

Like I said, you're ignorant.

I suppose this depends on whether they achieved their strategic objective (a united Ireland) which ultimately you have to say they did not. In fact that is arguably further away now as a possibility than it was in 1969.

Like any other issue this cannot be resolved by saying things like the IRA were cunts or the British Army were pricks as there were doubtless acts of heroism and cowardice on both sides, such is the nature of human affairs.

I suppose the ultimate question is did the IRA advance the cause of their people and was it worth the price?

I think the answer to the first question is a qualified yes, but to the second it would be no. Given the increased levels of tolerance in British society between, say 1969 and 1998, there is no way that the outrageous discrimination against catholics would have been allowed to continue as it was. In actual fact it has occurred to me that there may have been a groundswell of opinion on the 'mainland' (a contentious terminology in itself!) about washing our hands of Northern Ireland if it had carried on. On that basis there is an argument that the advances that catholics have enjoyed would have happened in any event by whatever means.

Returning to the matter of tactics, I'm no military expert but I would imagine that it is relatively easily to mount a guerilla campaign in your own nation for a whole host of reasons. The same goes for waging a terrorist campaign on foreign soil. I'm happy to be corrected by an expert but I imagine fighting a campaign against that is far more challenging, notwithstanding the prevailing disparity in resources that are invariably present in such a conflict.

 

[Jackson-ctid]

So many ignorant people on both sides of the argument in this thread that I'm not even going to divulge. I'm just glad that there's some blues out there who aren't so one dimensional and allow themselves to look at the bigger picture.

 

[frasermcfc]

I've spent the last 4 days in Sourh Armagh and met several people with first hand knowledge of the IRA and how it operated during the troubles. Seems to me that various the brigades waged a highly effective guerilla war against a well resourced modern army.

The tactics of some operations and the bravery of the volunteers involved is regarded highly by many military historains, and when you look at the country, and the security that was in place, it's not hard to see why.

I'm glad the war is over and have nothing but disgust for the dregs that killed Paul Quinn and those few that became thugs and worse afterwards. But when you look clearly at the IRA as a fighting force, it's hard not to have some respect.

Would that be the same BRAVE ira,who i recall were about to attack a army checkpoint/ ruc station with a digger with a bomb in the bucket,only to have a s.a.s team waiting for them ,this was a soft target but unluckily for these BRAVE cowards,they met there match,and were all shot dead.Then Sinn Fein/ira said what about their human rights,oh yes not forgetting the bomb in manchester 96.....the o/p take your provo stance elsewhere.

Loughgall, an excellent operation, that sent a strong message to those bastards that the OP so admires.

 

[Lucky13]

I've spent the last 4 days in Sourh Armagh and met several people with first hand knowledge of the IRA and how it operated during the troubles. Seems to me that various the brigades waged a highly effective guerilla war against a well resourced modern army.

The tactics of some operations and the bravery of the volunteers involved is regarded highly by many military historains, and when you look at the country, and the security that was in place, it's not hard to see why.

I'm glad the war is over and have nothing but disgust for the dregs that killed Paul Quinn and those few that became thugs and worse afterwards. But when you look clearly at the IRA as a fighting force, it's hard not to have some respect.

Would that be the same BRAVE ira,who i recall were about to attack a army checkpoint/ ruc station with a digger with a bomb in the bucket,only to have a s.a.s team waiting for them ,this was a soft target but unluckily for these BRAVE cowards,they met there match,and were all shot dead.Then Sinn Fein/ira said what about their human rights,oh yes not forgetting the bomb in manchester 96.....the o/p take your provo stance elsewhere.

Loughgall, an excellent operation, that sent a strong message to those bastards that the OP so admires.

And Gibralter.