The IRA

[talkativesprout]

Some interesting comments which I think illustrate the power of the media and he way the troubles were reported in England. The record of The British Army in Ireland is of course littered with 'atrocities', but whilst troops were "murdered" the other side were merely "shot dead".

Think you'll find Ulster is part of the United Kingdom , Ireland is not.

No. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
'Ulster' is not and never has been part of the United Kingdom.
Ulster is one of the four ancient provinces of Ireland.
It includes the counties of Donegal and Monaghan, which are in the free Republic of Ireland.
Ulster existed long before invasion by a foreign nation, the plantation of Scottish protestants, vote denial, gerrymandering, the man who invented genocide and ethnic cleansing in the name of the English crown, Oliver Cromwell, and his spiritual daughter Margaret Thatcher.
Terrible atrocities were committed on all sides, including British soldiers.
Only an idiot or a hopeless bigot still refuses to accept Bloody Sunday was anything other than a state sanctioned slaughter. Even the government gas admitted as much.
For everyone on here who has a squaddie mate who was killed or maimed over there, there is a Catholic family with an equal grievance.
It is conveniently disingenuous at best, and pathetically dishonest at worst, to pretend that British soldiers and the loyalist paramilitaries they armed and provided so called intelligence to, were in any way less blameworthy than any other player in this awful tragedy.

Well perhaps those catholic families should not of had a murderous terrorist amongst them. Are you actually saying that the bombing of non military targets on the mainland is a course of action that justifies the means in the whole scheme of things ? Im sure the British military did some horrid things, but i think on the atrocity stakes they may well been bottom of the table in the league.

 

[cyberblue]

It seems that I am left feeling utterly sick to the stomach and in total shock by bluemoon off topic every time I log in these days but this one takes the medal for the most upsetting pig ignorant abortion of a thread I have ever read.

But for the grace of god hundreds of innocent Mancunians could have died at the hands of these thugs and you have the bare faced audacity to make a thread praising them? You should be utterly ashamed.

It is a hard topic to debate but one we should not shy away from if the Soldiers were not in Ireland in the first place ..well there begs a question<br /><br />-- Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:50 pm --<br /><br />

Anyone who sets out to blow up women and kids is not brave,whatever they are"fighting"for.

How many women & kids have been killed in Iraq Libya & Afganistan by british & nato bombs & bullets

 

[The Twigg]

Just an honest question here not looking for a fight. What is taught in English schools about the troubles?

 

[LongsightM13]

Correct, GDM. The military were sent in originally to protect the Catholic population who were subject to horrific and virtually unchecked and unpoliced levels of violence, abuse and murder from the majority population. And the pitiful, borderline Nazi so-called police force of the time.
The soldiers were initially welcomed in nationalist areas - until they decided the RUC etc were more their kind of people.
Up until the mid to late 70s, Catholics in Northern Ireland had fewer democratic, social and economic rights and access to services than the black population in South Africa.
Mandela was a terrorist to Margaret Thatcher. The ANC committed horrific atrocities in his name. But now rock stars and our own Manchester City are queuing up to kiss his arse.
Cam someone explain the difference, apart from geographical proximity?

 

[Lucky Toma]

Let me just catagorically state before I begin that I am not comparing anything to anything here. Really I'm not. I'm not saying one is the same as the other, or better or worse. They are entirely different things. Yet I am about to write them to illustrate why I think the OP has possibly just produced the most stupid and obvious point since I found out about this forum. Obvious because his point is....well, fucking duh. And stupid because of the needless offense he knew he might cause to fellow blues.

Here goes......say what you like about the Yorkshire Ripper but its incredible really that he managed to avoid capture for so long. A bad man sure but there's no doubt he was very talented at being a serial killer.

The Nazis....how did one country do that?! Fair play to them. Credit where its due. Some of the things they did were way ahead of their time.

Breivik....a sick indivual but it was quite ingenius how he used the bomb to distract the police and then disguised himself as a police officer in order to be let onto the island with weaponary. People will be just remembering him for the bloodshed no doubt but its worth pointing out the method to the madness.

 

[mammutly]

Just an honest question here not looking for a fight. What is taught in English schools about the troubles?

That is an interesting question.

 

[PJMCC1UK]

Actually, The Taliban are a very effective force in Afghanistan.

I'm trying not to make value driven judgements here.

The record of the Loyalist paramilitaries is objectively worse than that of PIRA in terms of deliberately targeting civilians.

The number of non combatants killed, tortured and beaten by the RUC ,backed by the British Army, is vastly under reported and absolutely shocking for a supposedly state sanctioned force.

Did The IRA committ atrocities? Yes they did. But in the context of a dirty war - on all sides, they were not the worst protagonists.

Is that the same Taleban who plant IEDs and coax our lads into a fire fight before fleeing with women in tow so our lads can't return fire. They are effective at hiding behind innocents while also targeting those innocents.
Such as bombing girls school buses or attcking the schools with mortars and throwing acid on people.
Or the fact that they hung a 5yo lad because his dad had spoken to a British army officer.

They are only effective in terror as were and still are the IRA.
There is some high level of organisation within Al Qaeda but it's nothing to be admired. They are cowards.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Correct, GDM. The military were sent in originally to protect the Catholic population who were subject to horrific and virtually unchecked and unpoliced levels of violence, abuse and murder from the majority population. And the pitiful, borderline Nazi so-called police force of the time.
The soldiers were initially welcomed in nationalist areas - until they decided the RUC etc were more their kind of people.
Up until the mid to late 70s, Catholics in Northern Ireland had fewer democratic, social and economic rights and access to services than the black population in South Africa.
Mandela was a terrorist to Margaret Thatcher. The ANC committed horrific atrocities in his name. But now rock stars and our own Manchester City are queuing up to kiss his arse.
Cam someone explain the difference, apart from geographical proximity?

Well I don't see Gerry Adams ever becoming Prime Minister of the UK, eh Longsight? ;-)

What strikes me about this thread is the number of people who want to point score and operate some sliding scale about who committed the most atrocities. As you have said there was fault on all sides.

Can't people just be grateful about the fact that most of the problems are in the past. Surely that's what matters now.

 

[LongsightM13]

Think you'll find Ulster is part of the United Kingdom , Ireland is not.

No. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
'Ulster' is not and never has been part of the United Kingdom.
Ulster is one of the four ancient provinces of Ireland.
It includes the counties of Donegal and Monaghan, which are in the free Republic of Ireland.
Ulster existed long before invasion by a foreign nation, the plantation of Scottish protestants, vote denial, gerrymandering, the man who invented genocide and ethnic cleansing in the name of the English crown, Oliver Cromwell, and his spiritual daughter Margaret Thatcher.
Terrible atrocities were committed on all sides, including British soldiers.
Only an idiot or a hopeless bigot still refuses to accept Bloody Sunday was anything other than a state sanctioned slaughter. Even the government gas admitted as much.
For everyone on here who has a squaddie mate who was killed or maimed over there, there is a Catholic family with an equal grievance.
It is conveniently disingenuous at best, and pathetically dishonest at worst, to pretend that British soldiers and the loyalist paramilitaries they armed and provided so called intelligence to, were in any way less blameworthy than any other player in this awful tragedy.

Well perhaps those catholic families should not of had a murderous terrorist amongst them. Are you actually saying that the bombing of non military targets on the mainland is a course of action that justifies the means in the whole scheme of things ? Im sure the British military did some horrid things, but i think on the atrocity stakes they may well been bottom of the table in the league.

No, you're trying to put words in my mouth.
Murder is murder, whoever commits it.
Are you seriously saying all the Catholics who were murdered were either terrorists or were harbouring them?
Laughable and ridiculous. You need to do some serious reading before you post again.
Next you'll be saying all the natives killed in Vietnam were VC, or all the Afghans and Iraqis killed recently were al Qaeda.

 

[pauldominic]

Bans, Fight offers, name calling and pulled as it gets exciting!
I think it's a great topic btw, if debated properly.

I'm a member with relatives in donegal, leitrim and dublin ;)