The Labour Government

[blueinsa]

The country is in the shit and there are no easy answers.

Con merchants telling people there are easy answers are part of the problem, they are definitely not part of the solution. But of course, people want to believe there are easy answers as it gives them someone to kick.

Politicians can't tell the truth because generally, people aren't grown-up enough to accept it. I find it amusing that almost every critic of this government wants public expenditure increased in some way or another, but at the same time they don't think anyone should pay more tax.

Paying more tax isn’t the issue.

It’s the politicians who can’t tell the truth spending it on shit that’s the issue and a complete lack of transparency.

 

[BobKowalski]

I don't think anyone would disagree with paying more tax, the problem is having visibility as to where it all goes and what measured improvements will be achieved.

If I hand over my hard earned cash for a service to be performed I can see when its been competed, if its to the required standard and its transparent who's getting paid what amount. The problem with taxation is, its not transparent, many see little tangible benefit. Schools are getting worse, hospitals dont have enough money, infrastructure projects are being cancelled, the military is shrinking, pension ages are rising, not enough police, prison full, swathes of homeless people etc.

Yet people such as myself are absolutely caned for tax because Im an easy PAYE target on a good salary.

Its absolutely correct that we all need to pay more tax, but there needs to be a lot more accountability around how that tax is spent.

We do know where it is spent. Defence, education, health etc have budgets and we know how much of the overall tax pie each dept gets. The current issue isn’t how it is spent, but that the overall pie isn’t big enough, hence tax rises. We have also deferred capital investment in health, education, transport* etc because it is too expensive yet, with each passing year it becomes more expensive to correct.

The accountability comes every four or five years in a general election.

*London excepted (which is a whole other problem)

 

[Kompany Car]

2008 crash did it for us, Blair or no Blair. Tory/LD government had just completed the job with almost genocidal budget cutting. Although there is info how we recovered by 2014-2016, it never happened in reality, but for a tiny minority at the very top. Brexit and COVID were catalyzers for things to become even worse. Politicians are just the agents of the financial industry and nothing else, their reaction to 2008 crash - presented as a great victory for the whole society - or what happened to Truss is the best proof for that. We moved from casino capitalism to betting shop capitalism. Blair was only lucky that during his reign inflation and energy prices were low, so people had this feeling of security, but once that cat was out of the box it all really unfolded. London and parts of SE are still holding somehow. Listening to Starmer/Reeves bullshit is the same like watching City for the past two months, like somebody split your skull and picking your brain.

It goes much further back, the 2008 crash was just the coup de grâce. Our problems can be traced back as far as the 70s under Wilson and Callaghan where we failed to modernise our means of production and kowtowed to the union demands. Thatcher then systematically dismantled our manufacturing industry in favour of the financial serviced sector which makes your economy very prone to financial shocks along with the criminal sell off of our utilities.
Move along to Blair with his laissez-faire approach to spending, failing to put money away in case of further financial shocks and you end up at 2008...

At each stage there was an opportunity to do something which would have made it better in the long run for the residents of the UK but they failed.

 

[Kompany Car]

We do know where it is spent. Defence, education, health etc have budgets and we know how much of the overall tax pie each dept gets. The current issue isn’t how it is spent, but that the overall pie isn’t big enough, hence tax rises. We have also deferred capital investment in health, education, transport* etc because it is too expensive yet, with each passing year it becomes more expensive to correct.

The accountability comes every four or five years in a general election.

*London excepted (which is a whole other problem)

We dont, the OBR publishes its report when the money has been pissed away, to then be told we need more money by the incumbent or future government. Ive seen it with my own eyes with infrastructure projects, money spent designing and installing things for them to be ripped out and scrapped only a few years later. Same with defence.

Shit procurement and no management from central government until the wheels have fallen off is what needs to be fixed. You only have to look at the NHS IT system, which was going to bring patients records into the 21 century, to see jow mich money can be wasted before its stopped.

 

[Palerider]

We dont, the OBR publishes its report when the money has been pissed away, to then be told we need more money by the incumbent or future government. Ive seen it with my own eyes with infrastructure projects, money spent designing and installing things for them to be ripped out and scrapped only a few years later. Same with defence.

Shit procurement and no management from central government until the wheels have fallen off is what needs to be fixed. You only have to look at the NHS IT system, which was going to bring patients records into the 21 century, to see jow mich money can be wasted before its stopped.

I think all we want financially from any Government spend is value for money but there seems to be a disconnect between the people with the purse strings and common sense. Realistically, where large amounts of money is involved, there will always be bribery, corruption and people on the take but we seem to excel in financial incompetence. Everyone I know who has worked in the NHS has multiple stories of how money has literally been flushed down the toilet (and then probably needed clearing by an overpriced drain blockage company).

 

[BobKowalski]

We dont, the OBR publishes its report when the money has been pissed away, to then be told we need more money by the incumbent or future government. Ive seen it with my own eyes with infrastructure projects, money spent designing and installing things for them to be ripped out and scrapped only a few years later. Same with defence.

Shot procurement and no management from central government until the wheels have fallen off.

Which was the point I made. We know where the money goes, spent and is also wasted on deferred capital investment projects like HS2. Transparency is not the issue. Long term planning and competent management from central Govt is the issue.

It doesn’t help matters when you abandon your European industrial strategy overnight, change PM’s every 18 months - each with a differing idea of what direction to take - Johnson’s 1970’s Bennite levelling up to Truss and her libertarian far right voodoo economics. On top of that you can chuck in a pandemic and a European war for good measure.

What we need right now is stability of Govt for a few years, a consistent idea of where we are going and why. A govt that actually governs. It will make mistakes as all Govts do, but sensible, boring, technocratic governance will do for now.

 

[hilts]

The country is in the shit and there are no easy answers.

Con merchants telling people there are easy answers are part of the problem, they are definitely not part of the solution. But of course, people want to believe there are easy answers as it gives them someone to kick.

Politicians can't tell the truth because generally, people aren't grown-up enough to accept it. I find it amusing that almost every critic of this government wants public expenditure increased in some way or another, but at the same time they don't think anyone should pay more tax.

Untrue plenty have said get more tax from huge corps as one example. It's untrue to suggest we aren't aware money needs finding.

 

[Don Karleone]

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I don't think anyone would disagree with paying more tax, the problem is having visibility as to where it all goes and what measured improvements will be achieved.

If I hand over my hard earned cash for a service to be performed I can see when its been completed, if its to the required standard and its transparent who's getting paid what amount. The problem with taxation is, its not transparent, many see little tangible benefit. Schools are getting worse, hospitals dont have enough money, infrastructure projects are being cancelled, the military is shrinking, pension ages are rising, not enough police, prison full, swathes of homeless people etc.

Yet people such as myself are absolutely caned for tax because Im an easy PAYE target on a good salary.

Its absolutely correct that we all need to pay more tax, but there needs to be a lot more accountability around how that tax is spent.

You know, I don’t think I’d have said this at sny other time than under the last 14 years of Tory, at least there seemed to be some accountability before then. Hopefully we may see some results from the PPE Tzar, and let’s hold this government to account for any failings in this area.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Personally, I think it’s a good call for a seasoned veteran who has fingers in all the world pies.