The Labour Government

[blueinsa]

The country is in the shit and there are no easy answers.

Con merchants telling people there are easy answers are part of the problem, they are definitely not part of the solution. But of course, people want to believe there are easy answers as it gives them someone to kick.

Politicians can't tell the truth because generally, people aren't grown-up enough to accept it. I find it amusing that almost every critic of this government wants public expenditure increased in some way or another, but at the same time they don't think anyone should pay more tax.

Paying more tax isn’t the issue.

It’s the politicians who can’t tell the truth spending it on shit that’s the issue and a complete lack of transparency.

 

[BobKowalski]

I don't think anyone would disagree with paying more tax, the problem is having visibility as to where it all goes and what measured improvements will be achieved.

If I hand over my hard earned cash for a service to be performed I can see when its been competed, if its to the required standard and its transparent who's getting paid what amount. The problem with taxation is, its not transparent, many see little tangible benefit. Schools are getting worse, hospitals dont have enough money, infrastructure projects are being cancelled, the military is shrinking, pension ages are rising, not enough police, prison full, swathes of homeless people etc.

Yet people such as myself are absolutely caned for tax because Im an easy PAYE target on a good salary.

Its absolutely correct that we all need to pay more tax, but there needs to be a lot more accountability around how that tax is spent.

We do know where it is spent. Defence, education, health etc have budgets and we know how much of the overall tax pie each dept gets. The current issue isn’t how it is spent, but that the overall pie isn’t big enough, hence tax rises. We have also deferred capital investment in health, education, transport* etc because it is too expensive yet, with each passing year it becomes more expensive to correct.

The accountability comes every four or five years in a general election.

*London excepted (which is a whole other problem)

 

[Kompany Car]

2008 crash did it for us, Blair or no Blair. Tory/LD government had just completed the job with almost genocidal budget cutting. Although there is info how we recovered by 2014-2016, it never happened in reality, but for a tiny minority at the very top. Brexit and COVID were catalyzers for things to become even worse. Politicians are just the agents of the financial industry and nothing else, their reaction to 2008 crash - presented as a great victory for the whole society - or what happened to Truss is the best proof for that. We moved from casino capitalism to betting shop capitalism. Blair was only lucky that during his reign inflation and energy prices were low, so people had this feeling of security, but once that cat was out of the box it all really unfolded. London and parts of SE are still holding somehow. Listening to Starmer/Reeves bullshit is the same like watching City for the past two months, like somebody split your skull and picking your brain.

It goes much further back, the 2008 crash was just the coup de grâce. Our problems can be traced back as far as the 70s under Wilson and Callaghan where we failed to modernise our means of production and kowtowed to the union demands. Thatcher then systematically dismantled our manufacturing industry in favour of the financial serviced sector which makes your economy very prone to financial shocks along with the criminal sell off of our utilities.
Move along to Blair with his laissez-faire approach to spending, failing to put money away in case of further financial shocks and you end up at 2008...

At each stage there was an opportunity to do something which would have made it better in the long run for the residents of the UK but they failed.

 

[Kompany Car]

We do know where it is spent. Defence, education, health etc have budgets and we know how much of the overall tax pie each dept gets. The current issue isn’t how it is spent, but that the overall pie isn’t big enough, hence tax rises. We have also deferred capital investment in health, education, transport* etc because it is too expensive yet, with each passing year it becomes more expensive to correct.

The accountability comes every four or five years in a general election.

*London excepted (which is a whole other problem)

We dont, the OBR publishes its report when the money has been pissed away, to then be told we need more money by the incumbent or future government. Ive seen it with my own eyes with infrastructure projects, money spent designing and installing things for them to be ripped out and scrapped only a few years later. Same with defence.

Shit procurement and no management from central government until the wheels have fallen off is what needs to be fixed. You only have to look at the NHS IT system, which was going to bring patients records into the 21 century, to see jow mich money can be wasted before its stopped.

 

[Palerider]

We dont, the OBR publishes its report when the money has been pissed away, to then be told we need more money by the incumbent or future government. Ive seen it with my own eyes with infrastructure projects, money spent designing and installing things for them to be ripped out and scrapped only a few years later. Same with defence.

Shit procurement and no management from central government until the wheels have fallen off is what needs to be fixed. You only have to look at the NHS IT system, which was going to bring patients records into the 21 century, to see jow mich money can be wasted before its stopped.

I think all we want financially from any Government spend is value for money but there seems to be a disconnect between the people with the purse strings and common sense. Realistically, where large amounts of money is involved, there will always be bribery, corruption and people on the take but we seem to excel in financial incompetence. Everyone I know who has worked in the NHS has multiple stories of how money has literally been flushed down the toilet (and then probably needed clearing by an overpriced drain blockage company).

 

[BobKowalski]

We dont, the OBR publishes its report when the money has been pissed away, to then be told we need more money by the incumbent or future government. Ive seen it with my own eyes with infrastructure projects, money spent designing and installing things for them to be ripped out and scrapped only a few years later. Same with defence.

Shot procurement and no management from central government until the wheels have fallen off.

Which was the point I made. We know where the money goes, spent and is also wasted on deferred capital investment projects like HS2. Transparency is not the issue. Long term planning and competent management from central Govt is the issue.

It doesn’t help matters when you abandon your European industrial strategy overnight, change PM’s every 18 months - each with a differing idea of what direction to take - Johnson’s 1970’s Bennite levelling up to Truss and her libertarian far right voodoo economics. On top of that you can chuck in a pandemic and a European war for good measure.

What we need right now is stability of Govt for a few years, a consistent idea of where we are going and why. A govt that actually governs. It will make mistakes as all Govts do, but sensible, boring, technocratic governance will do for now.

 

[hilts]

The country is in the shit and there are no easy answers.

Con merchants telling people there are easy answers are part of the problem, they are definitely not part of the solution. But of course, people want to believe there are easy answers as it gives them someone to kick.

Politicians can't tell the truth because generally, people aren't grown-up enough to accept it. I find it amusing that almost every critic of this government wants public expenditure increased in some way or another, but at the same time they don't think anyone should pay more tax.

Untrue plenty have said get more tax from huge corps as one example. It's untrue to suggest we aren't aware money needs finding.

 

[Don Karleone]

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I don't think anyone would disagree with paying more tax, the problem is having visibility as to where it all goes and what measured improvements will be achieved.

If I hand over my hard earned cash for a service to be performed I can see when its been completed, if its to the required standard and its transparent who's getting paid what amount. The problem with taxation is, its not transparent, many see little tangible benefit. Schools are getting worse, hospitals dont have enough money, infrastructure projects are being cancelled, the military is shrinking, pension ages are rising, not enough police, prison full, swathes of homeless people etc.

Yet people such as myself are absolutely caned for tax because Im an easy PAYE target on a good salary.

Its absolutely correct that we all need to pay more tax, but there needs to be a lot more accountability around how that tax is spent.

You know, I don’t think I’d have said this at sny other time than under the last 14 years of Tory, at least there seemed to be some accountability before then. Hopefully we may see some results from the PPE Tzar, and let’s hold this government to account for any failings in this area.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Personally, I think it’s a good call for a seasoned veteran who has fingers in all the world pies.

 

[BobKowalski]

A devious, high level political operative as Ambassador in the US capital with a whackadoodle President in power.

Definitely qualified for the job.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Because they shared a mutual friend?

 

[bluethrunthru]

They have done nothing they are all the same ........ this week ...... oh wait......

UK buys back 36,000 military homes after 'disastrous' privatisation

Military homes bought by Ministry of Defence in £6bn deal to end 'disastrous' privatisation sell-off that cost taxpayers £8bn.

www.bigissue.com

Labour promises £1bn to tackle homelessness in shift towards prevention

The Labour government has said it will spend £1bn tackling homelessness in 2025 by shifting to prevention to end homeless crisis.

www.bigissue.com

 

[TinFoilHat]

Personally, I think it’s a good call for a seasoned veteran who had fingers in all of Epstein's sex toys.

 

[TinFoilHat]

It goes much further back, the 2008 crash was just the coup de grâce. Our problems can be traced back as far as the 70s under Wilson and Callaghan where we failed to modernise our means of production and kowtowed to the union demands. Thatcher then systematically dismantled our manufacturing industry in favour of the financial serviced sector which makes your economy very prone to financial shocks along with the criminal sell off of our utilities.
Move along to Blair with his laissez-faire approach to spending, failing to put money away in case of further financial shocks and you end up at 2008...

At each stage there was an opportunity to do something which would have made it better in the long run for the residents of the UK but they failed.

Straight out the RW chattering classes handbook that.

Always the workers fault. Never the corporates/Banks.

 

[Kompany Car]

Which was the point I made. We know where the money goes, spent and is also wasted on deferred capital investment projects like HS2. Transparency is not the issue. Long term planning and competent management from central Govt is the issue.

It doesn’t help matters when you abandon your European industrial strategy overnight, change PM’s every 18 months - each with a differing idea of what direction to take - Johnson’s 1970’s Bennite levelling up to Truss and her libertarian far right voodoo economics. On top of that you can chuck in a pandemic and a European war for good measure.

What we need right now is stability of Govt for a few years, a consistent idea of where we are going and why. A govt that actually governs. It will make mistakes as all Govts do, but sensible, boring, technocratic governance will do for now.

Ok let me rephrase, accountability at the time of expenditure rather than a few years after the projects haven't been delivered to budget, in a timely manner and an acknowledgement where they have failed. A clear plan of how the failure will be prevented in the future and how the financial position will be recovered rather than just writing it off.

Its dead easy to keep spending money until you've used up your budget where oversight is poor and then ask for more, cap in hand a few years later, whilst only delivering a small percentage of what you promised to do. This issue is true not only for large projects like HS2 but for the thousands of projects run by both national and local government. I see it day in, day out with transport projects, many only costing a few million, where they are started, committed to in government plans, developed up to a AFC design, then shelved, never to be seen again. The same with defence projects, refits, facilities improvements, started and stopped continuously but its only a few million here and a few million there so you know its just wastage...

All I want for the tax I pay, is for people to say what they are going to do, deliver it on time and as close to budget as possible. It seems however like that is too much to ask.

I do agree that government should be boring, as with all the best leadership what you want are boring leaders that get on with the job, deliver and carry on quietly making things better and letting the actual results do the talking. The problem is everyone wants to be a celebrity these days.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Straight out the RW chattering classes handbook that.

Always the workers fault. Never the corporates/Banks.

I think he has failed to grasp how low down on its arse the country was back then. We ended going to the IMF for a loan - there was no money to improve and re-invest in the fabled "means of production".

There was still a textiles industry - my Dad then worked at Tongue dying in Middleton dying fabrics made in Lancashire - that went abroad because it was cheap not because of lack of investment. The motor industry was failing - instead of killing marques off BLMC just absorbed them and badge engineered versions of say the 1100 as Austin, Morris, Riley, Wolesley, MG and VDP whereas it would have been sensible to just do one version and go down the L, GL, GS, VDP and Sport route - and rail was sacrificed for roads travel among many other things. As for Blair - a thundercunt with questions to answer over Iraq/Afghanistan but the NHS was at its highest approval ratings thanks to investment and effort and there was Surestart for starters

 

[Kompany Car]

Straight out the RW chattering classes handbook that.

Always the workers fault. Never the corporates/Banks.

Tell me how it was the corporates and the banks ? Germany managed to do it, leading them to have a thriving industrial base. Take a look at British Leyland, Rover, Triumph etc, the joke being that you didnt buy a car made on a Friday because by the end of Friday nobody gave a shit so the quality was poor. More highly automated production lines didnt have this problem.

Its wasn't the corporates that were doing it, it was the demands of the market due to competition. The better you could machine components, the longer they last and the higher their reliability is. Germany arrived in the 80's seen as a producer of high volume quality products, the UK on the other hand outside of very high value low volume brands seen as no better than cheap imports from outside Europe.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Tell me how it was the corporates and the banks ? Germany managed to do it, leading them to have a thriving industrial base. Take a look at British Leyland, Rover, Triumph etc, the joke being that you didnt buy a car made on a Friday because by the end of Friday nobody gave a shit so the quality was poor. More highly automated production lines didnt have this problem.

Its wasn't the corporates that were doing it, it was the demands of the market due to competition. The better you could machine components, the longer they last and the higher their reliability is. Germany arrived in the 80's seen as a producer of high volume quality products, the UK on the other hand outside of very high value low volume brands seen as no better than cheap imports from outside Europe.

How old are you mate?

 

[Vic]

Matbe by getting all the ‘bad news’ out the way now then, yeah, they have 4 years for people to forget it ever happened.

But they need to start getting things ‘right’ pretty soon, or all the shit just goes on the list

The media thrives on things going wrong.

Would you notice if Labour does get 1000 more GPs in post next year?