The Labour Government

[i kne albert davy]

I just believe the UK needs more money from the public purse if you want a better NHS, better public transport, policing, prison system etc. You can't have it all on a fairly low tax system.

I also think that when the compulsory pension contribution system came in, it wasn't expected that so many people would live so many years beyond the pension age. I did a little bit of (admittedly limited) research and when it was brought in the average age of death compared to pensions was less than half than it is now. It's just not all sustainable.

We spend more on health than most comparable countries, not sure our overall tax rates are low ie fuel duties 53p a litre plus VAT, VAT on the majority of things we buy is 20%. To be honest the public sector is way to top heavy the UKs got serious issues as to where it spends it's money and it's way above my pay grade.

 

[metalblue]

what U-turn is that?

A U-turn would be implementing a policy then reversing it. They have been flying kites - seeing what the lie of the land is. Personally not a tactic I like I much preferred the traditional pre-budget period of purdah TBH

a U-turn is being made PM, appointing a chancellor and holding a "fiscal event" in circumstances that you were warned not to then taking the markets, canning your chancellor and your fiscal event in an effort to save your hide before resigning in disgrace. Thats a U-turn

Flying kites to find out how popular tax rises are? Hahahaha that’s a great one!!!! Makes you wonder why they went out of their way to be so clear in their manifesto.

 

[jimharri]

Obviously, I don't reside in the UK, so I'm not getting the benefits (or otherwise) of any of the policies that Labour have introduced since sleepwalking back into Downing Street. So; what's the feeling re how they're doing? Marks out of 10?

 

[i kne albert davy]

Obviously, I don't reside in the UK, so I'm not getting the benefits (or otherwise) of any of the policies that Labour have introduced since sleepwalking back into Downing Street. So; what's the feeling re how they're doing? Marks out of 10?

Done some good things contracts with Turkey keeping people in work also shot themselves in the foot removing winter fuel allowance which wasn't a good start and rising employers NI contribution while promoting a government for growth so 4 out of 10 for me.

 

[blueinsa]

The sole factor motivating this u-turn is the utterly desperate level of Starmer's authority within the Labour Party, following another disastrous week for him. Starmer and Reeves are now so weak that they wouldn't survive a hike in income tax.

Economic policy is being made on the hoof and changing with the wind. Ill advised briefing against Streeting leads to a re-write of the Budget and a surge in gilt yields today.

What a complete shitshow.

This.

 

[WRicko]

The tax burden is more or less at an all time peace time high and the pension age is rising to 67 not sure that's where the problem lies.

Have you seen the demographic time bomb we have ? Or the pension benefit bill or the cost of the triple lock ?

 

[WRicko]

We spend more on health than most comparable countries, not sure our overall tax rates are low ie fuel duties 53p a litre plus VAT, VAT on the majority of things we buy is 20%. To be honest the public sector is way to top heavy the UKs got serious issues as to where it spends it's money and it's way above my pay grade.

Our health spend is lower as % of GDP than other comparable countries and we probably have an older fatter more unhealthy society

 

[dave_blue12]

The sole factor motivating this u-turn is the utterly desperate level of Starmer's authority within the Labour Party, following another disastrous week for him. Starmer and Reeves are now so weak that they wouldn't survive a hike in income tax.

Economic policy is being made on the hoof and changing with the wind. Ill advised briefing against Streeting leads to a re-write of the Budget and a surge in gilt yields today.

What a complete shitshow.

You have no fucking clue what is going on but feel free to carry on with your bullshit.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Our health spend is lower as % of GDP than other comparable countries and we probably have an older fatter more unhealthy society

We're pretty similar to most countries around our income levels to be honest lower than high income countries, miles behind the yanks but wouldn't fancy going down that route, wouldn't say our society's much different than many in the western world.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The Palantir problem

The American firm’s huge NHS contract raises equally big questions about government and tech.

www.newstatesman.com

The problem is that the NHS needs big tech. There have been a number of issues over the years around medical devices which are known to cause issues, including early deaths, because of the unanticipated failure of these devices or other issues associated with implanted medical devices.

The Paterson Inquiry, the Cumberlege Report, the issue of breast implant side effects and this week's story about the Medtronic heart pump that caused early deaths are all things that have happened but where it wasn't possible to track down everyone affected in order to carry out an intervention. Wasn't even possible to get a full picture of issues occurring because of fragmented or poor quality data. Some of the processes for recording use of these devices, and monitoring the outcomes, were poor or non-existent. Some trusts still don't have Electronic Patient Records.

Patient safety relies on timely, complete and accurate collection of data, along with the ability to integrate, monitor and interrogate that data. You can't do this on a spreadsheet; you need big systems to integrate the data coming through from NHS Trusts and other providers. And that means big tech.

The data stored on the system based on Palantir's Federated Data Platform is widely accessible but anonymised so no personal data is held. It's fed by a separate system controlled by the NHS where PII is held.

Patient safety relies on big tech, whether anyone likes it or not.

 

[metalblue]

Our health spend is lower as % of GDP than other comparable countries and we probably have an older fatter more unhealthy society

If you look at Germany or France, for example, whilst their overall spend is higher it’s split about 75% in state funding and 25% in private funding. So the amount that comes out of taxation is significantly lower than the UK.

Funnily enough was chatting with someone who lives in Germany a couple of weeks back and they were saying their contributions is about 13 or 14% (can’t quite recall) from the individual and the same from the employer. They can’t get appointments with GPs either!!!

 

[threespires]

The problem is that the NHS needs big tech. There have been a number of issues over the years around medical devices which are known to cause issues, including early deaths because of the unanticipated failure of these devices or other issues associated with implanted medical devices.

The Paterson Inquiry, the Cumberlege Report, the issue of breast implant side effects and this week's story about the Medtronic heart pump that caused early deaths are all things that have happened but where it wasn't possible to track down everyone affected in order to carry out an intervention. Wasn't even possible to get a full picture of issues occurring because of fragmented or poor quality data. Some of the processes for recording use of these devices, and monitoring the outcomes, were poor or non-existent. Some trusts still don't have Electronic Patient Records.

Patient safety relies on timely, complete and accurate collection of data, along with the ability to integrate, monitor and interrogate that data. You can't do this on a spreadsheet; you need big systems to integrate the data coming through from NHS Trusts and other providers. And that means big tech.

The data stored on the system based on Palantir's Federated Data Platform is widely accessible but anonymised so no personal data is held. It's fed by a separate system controlled by the NHS where PII is held.

Patient safety relies on big tech, whether anyone likes it or not.

Depending on what you specifically mean by 'big tech' it's an interesting question whether its net contribution to society is positive or negative at this point in history. I'd say we've headed to a place where it's the latter and in the case of Palantir I'm not convinced that it's a company in the traditional sense of the word I think it's more a new form of political vehicle.

I would suggest it's pretty clear our politicians are outmatched in terms of controlling big tech which is not a great place from the perspective of democracy.

 

[bluethrunthru]

They need to understand they can't out Reform reform

 

[WRicko]

We're pretty similar to most countries around our income levels to be honest lower than high income countries, miles behind the yanks but wouldn't fancy going down that route, wouldn't say our society's much different than many in the western world.

Defiantly more unhealthy than Mediterranean Japanese or even Northern European countries

9 th in spending as % of GDP which is behind our our global gdp placing behind our main European rivals France and Germany behind Switzerland Sweden and Austria that seem to have things right

 

[Gray]

I just believe the UK needs more money from the public purse if you want a better NHS.

Less Chiefs and more Indians would go a long way to achieving a better NHS.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

All fair points.

I’d argue that the media frenzy is driven by the all the leaks that have been coming out about what is going to be in the budget and the delay to delivering it. Of course there are certain outlets that wouldn’t give Labour any praise if they cured cancer and solved global warming in a day but, as someone posted on here a day or two back, it’s almost like they have a fifth column at the heart of it all (I’m thinking SpAds rather than MPs), I don’t think they do and that they are actively plotting against the government but I do think they are naive.

At the start you could almost forgive the mishaps and shit policy decisions but they continue to happen and they don’t seem to learn. It’s bizarre.

I agree with many of your points, especially to do with messaging. This Labour government have been absolutely shite at communication, and not helped by the reluctance of the media who are backing the other side. All parties leak ideas to generate support, or not, but, for me, there is no longer any form of impartiality. As we say with City, the agenda is clear and organised, Labour are the City of politics.

It’s interesting that many look at this iteration of Labour as being right of centre, so one has to ask, ‘Why don’t they get any support?’. And that’s when you realise that the elites of this world want even more of the pie, and see the UK as thee perfect place to influence their control.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Less Chiefs and more Indians would go a long way to achieving a better NHS.

I take it you’re happy with Labour on this point?

 

[Gray]

I take it you’re happy with Labour on this point?

No Government ever sorts out top heavy administration.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

No Government ever sorts out top heavy administration.

Just got rid of NHS England, with individual trusts cutting the admin/managerial positions, surely you are happy for this policy?

 

[bluethrunthru]

If you want a fix to any perceived problems then you have to be prepared to pay for it. I'll post in this thread but it applies to the Tories, Greens, Reform any of them.

Announcements are cheap. Implementation costs.

Justice? Open more courts- employ more solicitors/barristers. They are out there I know it from personal experience.
Prisons? Build more. Staff them properly and fully - provide rehabilitation (the point of prison)
NHS? Pay doctors pay nurses build the 40 new hospitals the joker Johnson promised and give jobs to those newly qualified
Immigration? Process applications and deal based upon their results - remain or deport.
Housing? - build - get councils involved build council estates again stop right to buy and offer housing that undercuts private rental costs.
Growth? Energy, roads, rail, regeneration - keep it in hose stop giving it away ( see Teesworks for an example)

I could go on and on but its down to commitment and money - if you have the former you do the latter. Reverse the employers NI increase and tax unearned income like dividends at the same rate as income. Tax wealth - the Duke of Westminster can go where he wants he ain't taking all of his assets ( the land of Chelsea and Westminster with him ).
Get fucking real on the EU. We ain't rejoining soon - stop pretending its to pander to the Right and explain that we will have to earn their trust over Brexit meanwhile do as much as we can to re-establish trading links with the EU and illustrate why that is beneficial.

Real politcians need to get on the front foot and get a grip.