The Labour Government

[Chippy_boy]

So you choose the very worst example.The utilities have been privatised but in fact there is not a competitive market in most of them and yet profits are sucked out. If a profit can be made from, say, water then that should be fed back in to invest in the infrastructure. Yes, that could and should be nationalised.

There are actually very few truly state run organisations and yet we are still in the mess we are. This is as much an argument in the other direction to yours. I would hope that we have learnt something as a country how no to do stuff over the last 30-40 years to make it better should any of these organisations be brought back under state control. It also doesn't help any organisation that the Minister responsible ofetn is only short term and has very litlle experience in the field they are overseeing.

In a perfect world, I would absolutely be all in favour of nationalised businesses that ran super efficiently, had employees really motivated and prepared to go the extra mile, totally focused on delivering fabulous services AND focusing all their returns on continuing improvement. Wouldn't that be marvellous.

I am 63 years old. I have never seen such an organization because no such organization can exist. It is fantasy.

I don't want my post to be too long, so I will try to keep it brief but my issues with state ownership include:

1. A false belief that the government or government appointed people can run businesses better than executives in the private sector.
2. At the core, a deep-seated lack of care as to whether the organization is delivering or not, because there tends to be little or no consequences for poor performance.
3. A lack of desire to go the extra mile, work late, work weekends, strive to be better because their tends to be insufficient reward for doing so and no pain if you do not do so.
4. Poor productivity with people not working hard enough, leaving early, taking too much time off sick.

In short, the end result is they deliver a Lada not a BMW.

Privatiztion solves the above with its desire to maximise profit through higher sales, higher market share, better service, lowest cost. People in private businesses need to work hard or ultimately they lose their jobs. Unfortunately, that same profit desire will if not properly channelled also drive companies to cut costs to the extent of ruining the service, if there is no disincentive from doing so.

So privatization is not perfect either, I get that. My perspective however is that it is easier to fix that to fix the issues above in the public sector, which IMO can never be fixed, they are intrinsic.

EDIT: This should go without saying but I will say it anyway else some people get the wrong idea. OF COURSE there are many people in the public sector who work tremendously hard and do well all the things I criticise, and there are many idle and incompetent twats in the private sector. I am talking about a generalisation, a general theme which typically affects organisations.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Are all the immigrants coming to the UK Muslim?

Do they need to be for my argument to hold true? I cannot find any up to date data but if we go back a few years, 46% were Muslim and i see no reason to assume that percentage has declined.

But either way, Muslim population growth far ourstrips non-Muslim population growth. England and Wales population grew by 3.52 million in the decade 2011-2021, with a 43% increase in the Muslim population, vs a 4.2% growth in non-Muslim population over that same period.

So it doesn't really matter where they are arriving on boats, through legal immigration or just breeding more; it is progressively change our demographic make up.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Do they need to be for my argument to hold true?

Do you have any stats? Are Muslims having significantly more children than immigrants from African Christian or Indian Hindu backgrounds?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Do you have any stats? Are Muslims having significantly more children than immigrants from African Christian or Indian Hindu backgrounds?

I don't know if they are - although the Muslim demographic is younger than average so that may be a reason why could be the case.

I just grabbed some figures from the Muslim Council of GB, which said that the Muslim population (in England and Wales) grew from 2.71m in 2010 to 3.87m in 2021. So 1.16m growth, out of a total of 3.52m growth across the whole population.

2021 Census: As UK Population Grows, So Do British Muslim Communities | Muslim Council of Britain

The population of England & Wales stands at 59.60 million; the Muslim population is 3.87 million, or 6.5 % of the total. As the overall England and Wales population grows by 3.52 million in the decade 2011-2021, so do Muslim communities by 1.16 million contributing to 33% of the increase...

mcb.org.uk

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I don't know if they are - although the Muslim demographic is younger than average so that may be a reason why could be the case.

I just grabbed some figures from the Muslim Council of GB, which said that the Muslim population (in England and Wales) grew from 2.71m in 2010 to 3.87m in 2021. So 1.16m growth, out of a total of 3.52m growth across the whole population.

2021 Census: As UK Population Grows, So Do British Muslim Communities | Muslim Council of Britain

The population of England & Wales stands at 59.60 million; the Muslim population is 3.87 million, or 6.5 % of the total. As the overall England and Wales population grows by 3.52 million in the decade 2011-2021, so do Muslim communities by 1.16 million contributing to 33% of the increase...

mcb.org.uk

Why are you scared of Muslims?

Also your assumption that all the Muslims will conspire to create an Islamic state despite coming from different cultures and sects seems a bit far fetched.

 

[Vic]

Bye. You won't be missed.

Whereas you would be?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Whereas you would be?

Hugely ;-) But not by you I suspect.

 

[Phil1]

Whereas you would be?

He wasn’t for the years he never posted on this thread so I suspect not.
He’s scared of his fucking shadow is Chippy.
Another who harks back to a better time when the country was supposedly’great’

 

[Chippy_boy]

Why are you scared of Muslims?

Also your assumption that all the Muslims will conspire to create an Islamic state despite coming from different cultures and sects seems a bit far fetched.

I am really not. I have no issue with the many Muslim people I know and work with. But I do not want Islam to become the national religion of the UK and for Islam to start to shape our culture and our lives. This is not about Sharia Law, about which I wholeheartedly agree with @Alan Harper's Tash.

 

[mexico1970]