The Labour Government

[Chippy_boy]

Cult-like behaviour.

Isn't it just. They are so indoctrinated, they refuse to accept any evidence put in front of them. You tell them some fact it other and if it doesn't align with their ingrained thinking they have to squirm around trying to mentally justify how it cannot possibly be true, why it's misleading or doesn't matter. And if that fails, they just resort to changing the subject or suggesting that it was worse under the Tories.

EDIT: See above, just posted moments before mine.

 

[Chippy_boy]

No, that’s one source with multiple reports of that one source.

So invalid then. Ok fair enough, made up stats. No-one's leaving the UK because it's marvellous here and Reeves and Starmer are doing an amazing job

Everyone can rally around that I'm sure.

 

[west didsblue]

Isn't it just. They are so indoctrinated, they refuse to accept any evidence put in front of them. You tell them some fact it other and if it doesn't align with their ingrained thinking they have to squirm around trying to mentally justify how it cannot possibly be true, why it's misleading or doesn't matter. And if that fails, they just resort to changing the subject or suggesting that it was worse under the Tories.

EDIT: See above, just posted moments before mine.

Was I wrong?

 

[west didsblue]

So invalid then. Ok fair enough, made up stats. No-one's leaving the UK because it's marvellous here and Reeves and Starmer are doing an amazing job

Everyone can rally around that I'm sure.

You said multiple sources.

 

[Hertzblue]

No, that’s one source with multiple reports of that one source.

The point is that the very wealthy are highly mobile and capable of moving to friendlier tax regimes should they be pushed to far. To believe otherwise is a mistake as others have found out.
Norway being a well publicised example of the risks of a wealth tax ( this wasn't even a new wealth tax , just an increase of an existing one). From the Guardian so you know it must be true...

 

[Chippy_boy]

Was I wrong?

Yes. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ionaire-uk-rachel-reeves-budget-b2682015.html

“The figures, compiled by the analytics firm New World Wealth”

You see, that took me 2 minutes. Which demonstrates to me, you and others are not actually interested in hearing it or you could have googled it yourself. You're just putting all your efforts into refuting things you don’t like to hear.

 

[adrianr]

There's multiple sources. According to the Henley Private Wealth Migration Report 2025, the UK is expected to lose 16,500 millionaires in 2025, which is more than any other country in the world and more than double the number projected to leave China, which is second on the list with 7,800. This marks the first time in a decade of tracking that the UK has overtaken China as the top country for millionaire outflows. The report defines millionaires as individuals with over $1 million (about £740,500) in liquid, investable assets.

UK set to 'lose more millionaires' than any other country

The UK is expected to lose over 16,000 millionaires this year in a flight that could pile more pressure on the UK's parlous public finances.

www.cityam.com

The world's richest people used to flock to the UK. Now, it's bleeding millionaires at a record rate.

The UK faces a record loss of 16,500 millionaires in 2025, driven by tax hikes and post-Brexit economic instability, according to Henley & Partners.

www.businessinsider.com

UK to lose more millionaires than any other country in 2025, report warns

The UK is on track to lose more millionaires this year than any other country in the world, according to a new global wealth migration report that underscores growing concerns over the nation’s economic competitiveness and high-tax environment.

bmmagazine.co.uk

UK to Lose Record 16,500 Millionaires in 2025, Surpassing China in Wealth Exodus

www.bundle.app

Millionaires on the Move: UK Braces for Historic Wealth Flight as Global Migration Peaks

A record-breaking 142,000 millionaires are projected to relocate internationally this year, with the UK expected to see the largest net outflow.

www.henleyglobal.com

All those links above reference the same Henley report btw, so one link probably would have done.

Here's a rebuttal to that report,

https://taxjustice.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/The-millionaire-exodus-myth-A-critical-reconsideration-of-the-Henley-Partners-Private-Wealth-Migration-report-June2025.pdf

It's not a very long or tough read but I'd certainly not be putting too much stock in the Henley report after going through it. You can argue the toss about the source of that rebuttal but the issues it brings up with the Henley report are issues nonetheless.

A good bit which has been thankfully gaining a little traction recently,

"The report’s methodology states that its estimates are primarily a measure of where millionaires say they work on social media and not of where they live or reside, meaning the report does not track actual, physical migration."

There's plenty more but I'm not gonna bother quoting it all.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

You said multiple sources.

Don't expect him to do your research for you. That classic response when someone is called out for not having provided evidence for what he's saying.

 

[west didsblue]

Yes. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ionaire-uk-rachel-reeves-budget-b2682015.html

“The figures, compiled by the analytics firm New World Wealth”

You see, that took me 2 minutes. Which demonstrates to me, you and others are not actually interested in hearing it or you could have googled it yourself. You're just putting all your efforts into refuting things you don’t like to hear.

So I was correct that you previously didn’t post multiple sources and now you’ve found another source you can pretend I was wrong.

Edit: And now, having glanced through the rebuttal posted above, it appears your initial source was based on your second source. So we’re back to just one, and that appears to be unreliable.

 

[M18CTID]

It's all very much on topic. You want it all without any idea how to pay for it. If Labour had even suggested that personal tax rises may be on the cards the RW press would have had a field day and we would have been lumbered with another 5 years of the last lot. If you remember, one of the reasons Sunak went for an early GE was that it was becoming evident that taxes would have to rise late last year.

It was a mistake however to rule out increases in the likes of VAT for a full term.

Some posters on here have suggested that they're ok with a rise in income tax or NI. However, Labour pledged pre-election that neither would rise, hence why I think they're looking at all these other ways of raising money. Trouble is, they've only succeeded in pissing millions of people off anyway which has led to them rowing back on things like the WFA and offering all these concessions in last night's bill. While those rethinks - u turns even - are ultimately good news for many, the optics aren't good at all. A rise in income tax or NI is the obvious answer and would've been simpler to implement but it was pretty much their main pre-election pledge not to do it so the backlash would be off the scale if they backtracked on that one.

I don't think the previous government helped because it's my belief that they "winged it" a fair bit in those last 12-18 months or so by cutting NI not once, but twice, in a last-ditch attempt to win votes but they ultimately knew that they couldn't really afford to do that. IIRC, they were also talking about a further NI cut but by then they probably knew they weren't getting back in anyway so effectively could promise what they wanted. As you say though, Labour have pretty much backed themselves into a corner by ruling out rises in income tax, NI, and VAT.

 

[stonerblue]

What a great idea. I wonder why no-one thought of it previously? And amazing they aren't paying anything already.

BTW, have you heard of the Laffer Curve?

For the very rich, paying taxes is pretty much optional. Tax them too much and they just rearrange their affairs so as not to pay it. Or they emigrate as they are doing, in droves. You cannot just keep squeezing them further and further and expect to generate more tax revenues.

I'm afraid what this country needs now is an increase to the basic rate of income tax, with an uplift in the personal allowance so that the people on the bottom end of the pay scale, are not subject to hardship.

But a 20% basic rate in this climate, is not enough to pay for the services we need. Average pay is £37k I discovered recently, so 2 parents both on average pay can earn £74k and only pay 20% tax on £50k of it (£74k minus 2x personal allowance if £12,500). It's not enough. I'm a big advocate of lower taxes but from where we are now, I see no other option.

(And I say this as someone who no longer pays the top rate, so any increase to that would suit me personally just fine. But it wouldn't help.)

Figures to back up your 'emigrating in droves' assumption?

 

[west didsblue]

Figures to back up your 'emigrating in droves' assumption?

I think we’ve established it’s all from a single unreliable source that’s been reported in multiple outlets.

And Chippy and his mates are making out anyone who isn’t immediately taken in by right wing propaganda is in a cult.

Ironic considering he was so vocal against Brexit until his own cult leader told him it was a good idea.

 

[Vic]

So I was correct that you previously didn’t post multiple sources and now you’ve found another source you can pretend I was wrong.

Edit: And now, having glanced through the rebuttal posted above, it appears your initial source was based on your second source. So we’re back to just one, and that appears to be unreliable.

I think this source puts us 2-1 up in sources

Henley’s 2025 Migration Report Is Misleading - Seb Sauerborn

Are 3,600 millionaires really moving to Italy? Is Germany only losing 400? Here’s what Henley’s numbers miss, and why it matters.

www.sebsauerborn.com

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Some posters on here have suggested that they're ok with a rise in income tax or NI. However, Labour pledged pre-election that neither would rise, hence why I think they're looking at all these other ways of raising money. ...A rise in income tax or NI is the obvious answer and would've been simpler to implement but it was pretty much their main pre-election pledge not to do it so the backlash would be off the scale if they backtracked on that one.

I don't think the previous government helped because it's my belief that they "winged it" a fair bit in those last 12-18 months or so by cutting NI not once, but twice, in a last-ditch attempt to win votes but they ultimately knew that they couldn't really afford to do that. IIRC, they were also talking about a further NI cut but by then they probably knew they weren't getting back in anyway so effectively could promise what they wanted. As you say though, Labour have pretty much backed themselves into a corner by ruling out rises in income tax, NI, and VAT.

I think much of this was to head off the tabloid media using the "Labour always raise your taxes" attack.

I doubt they thought they'd win the election by so much, and are now stuck in the corner they backed into/were backed into.

While raising one of the taxes seems the obvious way out, I think they are wary of the tropes being trotted out in the future.

I do wonder what the reaction of the general populace would be to:
"we didn't want to raise taxes, but elected members of Parliament from all parties have made it clear that other options are not available; we are therefore forced to."
Trouble is that the Mail/Farage would be out screeching within seconds.

 

[west didsblue]

I think this source puts us 2-1 up in sources

Henley’s 2025 Migration Report Is Misleading - Seb Sauerborn

Are 3,600 millionaires really moving to Italy? Is Germany only losing 400? Here’s what Henley’s numbers miss, and why it matters.

www.sebsauerborn.com

Your link does highlight another more serious problem that certainly needs addressing though.

 

[Hertzblue]

Cult-like behaviour.

You might want to have a read of John McDonnell’s comment piece in today’s Guardian, a left-wing view in a left-wing paper (so that you can spare us all the right-wing conspiracy theories). At least the first half of it where he discusses the complete shambles surrounding the welfare bill.

It’s a fair summary of the situation Starmer has placed himself in and what’s likely to follow.

Re Cult-like behaviour.
Exactly that .
You can see the same behaviour in the approach to Trans, Immigration, Welfare , Palestine etc Ever onwards, no pause for reflection, no doubt, no concern for the viewpoint of the majority. No matter the cost , just occupy what they believe is the moral high ground ( a belief often misplaced)
Posting an alternative view is putting yourself into a chat room zombie apocalypse scenario, they come at you and keep coming , no matter how many arm or legs you chop off, they are impervious to it.

 

[BobKowalski]

Yes. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ionaire-uk-rachel-reeves-budget-b2682015.html

“The figures, compiled by the analytics firm New World Wealth”

You see, that took me 2 minutes. Which demonstrates to me, you and others are not actually interested in hearing it or you could have googled it yourself. You're just putting all your efforts into refuting things you don’t like to hear.

Not sure why the domicile of various millionaires/billionaires is something I don’t like to hear, given I couldn’t give a toss where they live. I mean, it’s not like they are fucking homeless and dossing on the streets is it?

 

[BobKowalski]

Re Cult-like behaviour.
Exactly that .
You can see the same behaviour in the approach to Trans, Immigration, Welfare , Palestine etc Ever onwards, no pause for reflection, no doubt, no concern for the viewpoint of the majority. No matter the cost , just occupy what they believe is the moral high ground ( a belief often misplaced)
Posting an alternative view is putting yourself into a chat room zombie apocalypse scenario, they come at you and keep coming , no matter how many arm or legs you chop off, they are impervious to it.

Have you met yourself? I prescribe a period of quiet self reflection while you ponder the irony of your post.

 

[west didsblue]

Re Cult-like behaviour.
Exactly that .
You can see the same behaviour in the approach to Trans, Immigration, Welfare , Palestine etc Ever onwards, no pause for reflection, no doubt, no concern for the viewpoint of the majority. No matter the cost , just occupy what they believe is the moral high ground ( a belief often misplaced)
Posting an alternative view is putting yourself into a chat room zombie apocalypse scenario, they come at you and keep coming , no matter how many arm or legs you chop off, they are impervious to it.

I can see why you’re trying to steer the discussion into cult like behaviour away from the discredited millionaire exodus myth.

 

[M18CTID]

Cult-like behaviour.

You might want to have a read of John McDonnell’s comment piece in today’s Guardian, a left-wing view in a left-wing paper (so that you can spare us all the right-wing conspiracy theories). At least the first half of it where he discusses the complete shambles surrounding the welfare bill.

It’s a fair summary of the situation Starmer has placed himself in and what’s likely to follow.

I've just read that article. McDonnell makes some good points regarding the optics but a lot of the other stuff - such as the silencing of dissenters and re-establishing democracy within the party - could be levelled at the Labour party when Corbyn and he were in charge so he'd have been better off steering clear of that particular line of criticism.