The Labour Government

.... and why us it a race to the bottom?

Is it down to the shallowness and low caliber career politicians we have and them being under huge scrutiny?

Or is it down to the people rising up and refusing to believe everything they're told without question?

Me personally I think it's a 75/25 split in favour of the political sheep we elect.
It’s a race to the bottom as everyone is thinking negatively and wanting everything cancelled, sent home etc.

There are zero progressive ideas being bandied about.

When everything possible has been cancelled or sent home, what happens then? Where’s the blame going then?

There needs to be a monumental mind shift if we’re going to get out of this spiral we’re in now.

No one believes anything anymore. We don’t need experts, just reinforcement of their own views. We’re in a post truth era.

If we don’t take heed of the nonsense that is going on in the US, then we’ll likely repeat their mess and destroy the country further.
 
Although you’re much more conservative than me I agree on the top rate of tax not rising. I also think we should be going back increasing the tax thresholds, thus stopping the stealth tax that governments of all persuasions seem wedded to, as it’s easy money.

However, if we want to maintain public services never mind improve them and improve productivity we will need to start thinking differently about raising revenues.

The super rich have been accumulating money at a faster rate than any time in history, whilst our public services have been decimated.

There are quite a lot of things we could do and we could do them quickly.

Reforming the tax system is top of the list as it’s currently riddled with loopholes that make no sense. Mr Sunak, for example, paid a true tax rate of 23% on earnings of £2.2M in 2023, a lower effective rate than many in this country.
Income tax raise about 50% of total government tax receipts, while taxes related to wealth, such as capital gains and stamp duty, bring in less than 5% of tax receipts, which doesn’t seem right.

A 2% tax on assets over £10M doesn’t seem hugely outrageous and would raise over £20B a year.
Reform CGT as ours is currently the lowest in the G7 and bring them into line with income tax rates.
Apply National Insurance to investment income. Currently National Insurance is paid on income from work but not investment, such as dividends from shares, rent from property, and interest on savings. This means that landlords who don’t have a mortgage, earning huge sums of money during a housing crisis, are paying a lower tax rate than their renters whose only income is from their job. This would simplify the tax system’s treatment of different types of income and ensure that income from wealth is taxed at the same rate as earnings from work.
Tax company buybacks at 4% as that would encourage firms to invest instead of funnelling cash into shareholders (and their own) pockets. The water industry is a great example.
Properly tax private jets, the biggest polluters in aviation.
Mandate that multinational businesses operating in the UK to publish a breakdown of exactly how much income, profit and tax they generate here and in all other countries – known as ‘public country by country reporting’ (pCbCR). The UK government agreed this was merited in 2016, but has yet to implement this power. Increasing numbers of nations are mandating pCbCR – from the EU to Australia – where there is evidence of reduced use of tax havens and profit shifting, and increased effective tax rates and domestic tax revenue mobilisation. The UK must follow suit – not just to raise significant revenue, but to restore its credibility as a global leader in tackling tax abuse.

Finally, properly fund and resource HMRC to simply tax, tackle tax abuse and unfair tax reliefs.

These are, of course, all things that the Labour Party could and should be advocating and yet they go after welfare, as usual.
Lots of good stuff in there and some I don't agree with. Wealth taxes don't raise as much money as forecasted and are difficult (expensive) to pursue. That is probably why the majority of countries that have tried them have since withdrawn them, with only (IIRC) 3 countries out of 12 persisting with them. That must tell us something.

But I agree the tax system is WAY too complicated and complication = opportunity for fiddling / "creative accounting". Or just plain mistakes where Self Assessment is concerned. I posted before that the HMRC tax manual is 80,000 pages. That must mean no-one in the HMRC will have encyclopedic knowledge of it and it must be full of loopholes. Instead of playing whack-a-mole, if it was simplified, compliance and revenues would surely shoot up.
 
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It’s a race to the bottom as everyone is thinking negatively and wanting everything cancelled, sent home etc.

There are zero progressive ideas being bandied about.

When everything possible has been cancelled or sent home, what happens then? Where’s the blame going then?

There needs to be a monumental mind shift if we’re going to get out of this spiral we’re in now.

No one believes anything anymore. We don’t need experts, just reinforcement of their own views. We’re in a post truth era.

If we don’t take heed of the nonsense that is going on in the US, then we’ll likely repeat their mess and destroy the country further.
..... wait for it... I absolutely 100% agree with you and that is based on my own personal experience and views.... I quite literally do not support the Conservatives, though I do agree with some of their policies and I can and do say exactly the same about Labour, something I have said all along.
 
..... wait for it... I absolutely 100% agree with you and that is based on my own personal experience and views.... I quite literally do not support the Conservatives, though I do agree with some of their policies and I can and do say exactly the same about Labour, something I have said all along.
This government has been far from perfect, but they are still the only electable party at the moment.

The prospect of Badenoch or Farage being PM is unfathomable for the future of the country. Even if you negate their politics, they’re utterly malign people.
 
This post is a bit rich coming from someone who is struggling to post a coherent position.

You said “no”… so explain it because from what I can see you are all over the place and resorting to insults as some sort of balaclava to mask your own tenuous position.
To mask his hypocrisy too.
 
What percentage of these people do you think are just lazy and need nothing more than a kick up the arse?

This is a genuine question, btw. Maybe it's an insignificant <1%? ........................

Fucking lot more than that. My brother, his wife and 2 of their children and absolutely shameful in the way they play the system. They know all the benefits and how to maximise them - lived in (relative) comfort for decades and not paid a penny tax.

Seriously , they give advice to people on how to maximise benefits and avoid having to work
 
They haven't tried hard enough though have they ? We are still discussing wether its necessary to leave the ECHR to achieve the required level of control in the channel when its just obvious that we do. Farage has been allowed to fill that space. We can't turn back the clock so we have to agree to disagree on that one.
As for the " Brexit lies" argument and people being bullshitted into Brexit , not woken up etc, certainly some of the claims made by the Leave campaign were exaggerated but no more so than the scaremongering campaign of fear ran by the remain team. If the decision had been to remain then the Brexiteers would also have been crying for years about the lies , scaremongering and campaign of fear ran by the victorious remainers.
All that said these lies are of nothing compared to the great lie of the EU and our politicians that promoted it , that the EU was a trading bloc. It was always intended to be supranational, to supersede our own democratic institutions and usurp our sovereignty. How many fell for that bullshit? when if at all, did millions of people who are pro EU wake up to that one and the loss of their sovereignty ?
Farage's lies are as nothing in comparison to that one.
I’m not sure why @Chippy_boy has liked your post, given that he’s a huge Remainer and called me an idiot for voting Leave!

As for the rest of your post, sure both sides lied but the lies on the Leave side were far greater. Where’s the £350m a week they suggested should be given to the NHS? The 12 million people they said would head here from Turkey if they joined the EU? Yes, I know they haven’t joined the EU yet and we’ve left it but that figure was pure hyperbole. And of course, where’s the reduction in immigration - both legal and illegal - that Farage claimed would happen in the event of Brexit?

Fact is that Brexit has been an absolute fucking shitshow and no amount of gaslighting from that frog-faced **** and those who fronted up the Leave campaign will convince me otherwise. Say what you want about the EU - and it’s far from perfect - but it’s better to be in than out.
 
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I’m not sure why @Chippy_boy has liked your post, given that he’s a huge Remainer and called me an idiot for voting Leave!
Good memory (and apologies if I called you an idiot!)

I genuinely thought Brexit was a terrible idea, although - and I said this repeartedly at the time - not because I was so opposed to BEING OUT, but I thought the damage in the short term in GETTING OUT would be enormous and make it not worth it for millions, even if there could be some sunny uplands at some point in years or decades to come.

Since then - and I have also posted this a number of times - I realise I was wrong. Brexit has damaged the economy yes. It has made trade with the EU more cumbersome, yes. But it has not been the absolute car crash I thought it would be. I never in a million years thought the EU would give us a trade deal that is as good as it is. And I now think we are right to leave. I got it wrong.
 
I don’t agree.

14 years of slagging the Tories off (rightly so on many occasions) and laying into any poster who didn’t agree.

I’m not sure why you think roles shouldn’t be reversed now or why it’s suddenly an issue?

It’s politics and opinions, it isn’t going to change.

Anyway, we don’t agree, never have and probably never will so c’est la vie n all that.

Some can give it out but take criticism of their views quite hard. When they were calling out govt decisions it was because they were right, but the other way round it must be hyperbole. No one can possibly disagree with a neo lib enlightened centrist. It does not compute.
It's those wums or the right wing media that's making people do.it.
Now if we can get back to normal and be adult centrists that would be nice.

Furage
Gammon
Stupid
Racist
Bexit lies

Pick and choose and repeat endlessly day after day, week after week, year after year

That's debate ie agree with ME, ME

So obvious, so transparent so.......

#pointiess

:-)
 
Genuine question....

Do you say "it's pointless debating with you" to everyone that happens to have an alternative point of view to yours?

See, because to say it "must get quite boring to relentlessly say that everything is shit" kind of works both ways... does it not?

So, what makes you think YOU are right and all those who disagree with you are wrong?

I think the point is that the politics forum is repetitive and never gets anywhere so its all a bit pointless. Therefore he keeps repeating himself again and again about the forum being well repetitive and erm... pointless. He could just bugger off but he can't so when tte urge beats him he..... well........

Tells us it's repetitive and pointless.

Most of us have been here years and I'm not sure we have ever seen one person keep pointlessly telling people how pointless things are.

Who knew pointless tourettes was a thing?

#pointless
 
Lots of good stuff in there and some I don't agree with. Wealth taxes don't raise as much money as forecasted and are difficult (expensive) to pursue. That is probably why the majority of countries that have tried them have since withdrawn them, with only (IIRC) 3 countries out of 12 persisting with them. That must tell us something.

But I agree the tax system is WAY too complicated and complication = opportunity for fiddling / "creative accounting". Or just plain mistakes where Self Assessment is concerned. I posted before that the HMRC tax manual is 80,000 pages. That must mean no-one in the HMRC will have encyclopedic knowledge of it and it must be full of loopholes. Instead of playing whack-a-mole, if it was simplified, compliance and revenues would surely shoot up.
0.84% of the worlds population and over 13% of the worlds accountants tells us all we need to know about our tax system…
 
Brexit has damaged the economy yes. It has made trade with the EU more cumbersome, yes. But it has not been the absolute car crash I thought it would be. I never in a million years thought the EU would give us a trade deal that is as good as it is. And I now think we are right to leave.
So the fact it’s not been the absolute car crash you were expecting and it’s just damaged the economy and made trade more difficult is the reason why we were right to leave?
You’ve really sold it to me!

I suggest you don’t start a career in marketing.
 
So the fact it’s not been the absolute car crash you were expecting and it’s just damaged the economy and made trade more difficult is the reason why we were right to leave?
You’ve really sold it to me!

I suggest you don’t start a career in marketing.
Fair point - I only mentioned that the things that were causing me to be anti-brexit were not as bad as I thought. I didn't bother listing the many things that are positive about it. Ability to control our borders, set our tax rates, support our businesses with subsidies as we see fit, do independent trade deals, make our own laws, and - soon I hope - have our own courts judge against those laws. I could go on. These are great things.
 
I've come to the conclusion that when someone's "side" isn't "winning" anymore then it's a bit like rag fans...."lost interest, it's all crap....." ;-)
I haven’t lost interest in politics. I’ve lost interest in debating politics with people on social media that debate politics to get a rise out of their opponents.

 

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