The Labour Government

[Chippy_boy]

Finally a serious PM that can have the relationship with our neighbours to deal with the migrant crises - Macron wouldn’t give two fucks about Farage.
Well done Starmer.

What a wonderful man he is. Ra ra ra.

Sorry to burst your bubble but he's a vile, revolting, lying, odious, incompetent twat. Universally hated barring you and 2 mates.

 

[inchy14]

Some good news (sort of) this morning.

The new 1 in 1 out deal with France - they send us 1 asylum seeker for every 1 boat crossing person we return, is actually a big step forward.

You might imagine a 1 for 1 swap won't reduce numbers, but of course it will, since people will be much less likely to attempt a boat crossing knowing they will simply be sent back again.

There's 2 reasons it's not great. First, the 1 we do have to take is someone likely to be eligible for asylum. The 1 coming in on a boat is likely not. So whilst the boat crossing numbers might fall, we could in theory deport most if not all those currently illegally arriving by boat. In the new system, we will be taking people we can't deport.

So the new regime is better than the current reality - that currently we don't send anyone back. But worse than the current theory whereby we should already be able to send everyone back.

The other bad thing (for me) is that it perhaps makes people less likely to vote Reform. Illegal boat crossing numbers are likely to fall, reducing the political noise over migration - Reform's key campaigning issue.

Correct me if I’m wrong but you want people to vote reform?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Or maybe I realise that being PM is a impossible position and I feel Labour are actually doing far more than the previous government to please all sides and do better for the country.

If bankruptcy is good for the country, he's doing an amazing job.

 

[bluenova]

I'm not sure. And when we spent £303bn on welfare last year (rising this year), going after £5bn of pensions spend - i.e less than 2% of it - would seem very much like focussing on the wrong thing, wouldn't it?

Spending on pensioners is by far the largest area of welfare spending, and the average pensioner is now better off than the average worker, so seems like the most obvious target.

 

[inchy14]

Just listened to Healey the defence secretary on this morning, he sounded as if he didn't have a clue about how to stop the boat crossings? He bizarely actually thinks the French Police are now going to stop the boats crossing.

Pretty obvious that you stop the incentives, you crack down really hard on employers who use cheap black market labour. Make an example of them, by locking them up for three years. We can do this for other reasons.

You house asylum seekers in fenced camps with tents. Yes just like Glastonbury ! Its not illegal to do so before people say it is?

You stop giving people money and free prescriptions and make sure they have to wait at the back of the queue like everyone else for NHS health care, not bring in private doctors to treat them.

Keep them secure and stop them from working and absconding, feed them, give them shelter and warmth and ensure they are safe and have health care which is no better than everyone else in the UK. But that's it, nothing more.

Fenced camps in tents!! Fucking hell.

 

[BlueHammer85]

What a wonderful man he is. Ra ra ra.

Sorry to burst your bubble but he's a vile, revolting, lying, odious, incompetent twat. Universally hated barring you and 2 mates.

Is he ?
Comes across alright to me.
Not a lying grifting racist like the bloke you will vote for - in fact the opposite, a man that’s been fighting for human rights and worked in criminal defence shaping the justice system for better - and that’s even before the achievements he has done as PM. A proper statesmen and PM at long last. No wonder those on far right resent him.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Spending on pensioners is by far the largest area of welfare spending, and the average pensioner is now better off than the average worker, so seems like the most obvious target.

Pensions cost £5bn. Welfare, £304bn

Sure pensions is an obvious target, if you are clinically insane.

EDIT: Sorry, you weren't being serious were you. You had me there for a moment

 

[bluenova]

Pensions cost £5bn. Welfare, £304bn

Sure pensions is an obvious target, if you are clinically insane.

EDIT: Sorry, you weren't being serious were you. You had me there for a moment

The state pension alone was 42% of the welfare budget in 23/24. That's before you add on pensioner credit, housing benefit, WFA, and other disability benefits.

 

[BlueHammer85]

If bankruptcy is good for the country, he's doing an amazing job.

We’re no where near to bankruptcy, low inflation, low interest, fastest growth in the G7. Why you trying to put our great nation down at every chance ?

 

[Chippy_boy]

The state pension alone was 42% of the welfare budget in 23/24. That's before you add on pensioner credit, housing benefit, WFA, and other disability benefits.

My apologies. Brain fart on my part. it's 5% of GDP, not £5bn. My bad.

Still, you cannot bundle together housing benefit, WFA and disability benefits in with the state pension. These are seperate benefits that you might/or might not look at. But you cannot say we'll clobber the pension because people are getting e.g. disability benefit.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Correct me if I’m wrong but you want people to vote reform?

Probably. It's 4 years away so will have to look at it at the time. I want people to vote for whatever makes most sense to keep Labour out. We might be in Tory/Reform pact territory by then. Or maybe even Ben Habib might have some traction. Just so long as Labour is gone, that's the prime objective. Anything but Labour. Well, or the Greens. They are worse.

 

[Chippy_boy]

We’re no where near to bankruptcy, low inflation, low interest, fastest growth in the G7. Why you trying to put our great nation down at every chance ?

Because mate, and I don't expect you to grasp this, we are teetering on the brink of being completely fucked.

Unsustainable government borrowing:
Both main UK parties are pursuing big-spending policies without the corresponding fiscal discipline. That includes things like expanded welfare, public sector wage demands (like the NHS asking for 35% pay rises), and populist handouts.

Loss of market confidence:
If investors lose faith in the UK government’s ability to manage its debt, they will demand higher interest rates to lend money. That pushes up the gilt yield.

Risk of a financial crisis:
Quite possibly, only a major financial or fiscal meltdown will wake up our financially incompetent politicians and journalists to the danger. There's parallels with the 1976 UK crisis here, when Britain had to be bailed out by the IMF, but today's situation is infinitely worse, because the sums are so huge.

Systemic failure:
If gilt yields spike uncontrollably, the UK could face a debt spiral, loss of investor trust, and ultimately a sovereign debt crisis akin to Greece’s in the 2010s — but worse, because the IMF may not have enough capacity to rescue the UK.

We're in a dire position, and it's really weird that you and your happy clapper mates don't recognise it.

 

[bluenova]

My apologies. Brain fart on my part. it's 5% of GDP, not £5bn. My bad.

Still, you cannot bundle together housing benefit, WFA and disability benefits in with the state pension. These are seperate benefits that you might/or might not look at. But you cannot say we'll clobber the pension because people are getting e.g. disability benefit.

They weren't bundled together. 42% of welfare spending was just the state pension. All those other benefits are ones which give extra money to the pensioners in most need.

As I said, the average pensioner is now apparently better off than the average worker, and that's been the case for a few years (this is from 2017 https://fullfact.org/economy/are-pensioners-better-people-working-age/).

I'm not suggesting clobbering pensioners, but if you want to cut somewhere, then the triple lock is probably the fairest - and I'd use part of the savings, to boost the incomes of poorer pensioners.

 

[west didsblue]

Probably. It's 4 years away so will have to look at it at the time. I want people to vote for whatever makes most sense to keep Labour out. We might be in Tory/Reform pact territory by then. Or maybe even Ben Habib might have some traction. Just so long as Labour is gone, that's the prime objective. Anything but Labour. Well, or the Greens. They are worse.

Ben Habib??
You’re fucking hilarious these days.
I didn’t often agree with you in years gone by but you could usually put across a reasonable argument to support your position.
These days you seem to have lost your ability to make an informed judgment and just go along with far right slogans that are designed to appeal to morons.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Fenced camps in tents!! Fucking hell.

What's wrong with that? Have you been on campsite, many have security and fences?
Many people camp in the UK every year, hotels are not compulsory?

As long as the place is clean and safe and they cannot abscond to work illegally what's the problem ?

You see the idea is those who come here to exploit our very lax system and work in our black market wouldnt quite be so keen to come.

Working in France illegally is much harder as they have ID cards. That's the big draw with so many coming to the UK.

 

[west didsblue]

If bankruptcy is good for the country, he's doing an amazing job.

Stock market thinks differently. Record high at the moment. Sort of demonstrates the financial markets’ are happy with government policy. Thought that might appeal to you.

 

[inchy14]

What's wrong with that? Have you been on campsite, many have security and fences?

What’s wrong with it? Would you like to be in one?

 

[Brewster's millions]

Is he ?
Comes across alright to me.
Not a lying grifting racist like the bloke you will vote for - in fact the opposite, a man that’s been fighting for human rights and worked in criminal defence shaping the justice system for better - and that’s even before the achievements he has done as PM. A proper statesmen and PM at long last. No wonder those on far right resent him.

Who do you like the most?

Starmer or Gareth Southgate?

I’m keen to find out.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

If bankruptcy is good for the country, he's doing an amazing job.

We are miles off bankruptcy as a country. Check out our nat debt compared to France ? We have a long way to go to get near theirs and they have a long way to go before they go bust. Then check out Japan's nat debt. Its staggering.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Who do you like the most?

Starmer or Gareth Southgate?

I’m keen to find out.

Close call. Both decent people that want to do the best for their country. Over a pint I’ll go with the big G, Southgate.