The Labour Government

Hertzblue said:
As a reminder your response bordered hysteria.

My suggestions to tackle Welfare you compared to Pol Pot forcing people to work in Khmer Cambodia.

To re-align our Education system to our job market was dismissed as a scheme to not educate people

etc etc Everything is to difficult , to complicated to do anything

In short , full steam ahead, steady as she goes... What iceberg !
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Ah, I do remember the Pol Pot line. I enjoyed that one. Yes, you wanted to force the ‘work shy’ back into the labour market. More seriously, I have no issue with encouraging people back into the labour market. Retraining and other schemes are to be welcomed. I also favour a strong social security net for those unable to work and better child and nursery support for single moms allowing them to work etc.

You don’t need to realign our education system to our job market given the job market can rapidly change. A well educated population is a goal in itself and not solely there to feed the labour market. You can have more technical and vocational education for those who have an aptitude and interest. The State should encourage a wide variety of choices from the sciences to the arts and the vocational.

And while this is all good and admirable you will still have the issue of a low fertility rate, meaning you will need to import immigrant labour. The fundamental problem still remains.
 
Hertzblue said:
How on earth can adding a further 20 million migrants be sustainable .

Please explain
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Firstly, the extra 20 million is based on an erroneous assumption. It is an extrapolation based on the economic needs and the profile of the economy in 2025 and projected forward into 2064. Yet we have no idea what technological advancements we will have in 2064. For example, in 1985 we had no idea of the commercial application of the internet. Consuming media, shopping, communications all done via your phone which you carried in your pocket? It was science fiction. Therefore projecting what immigration levels will be like in 2064 based on the economy in 2025 is fairly pointless other than perhaps as an academic exercise.

But let’s assume that the population in 2064 is 90 million. Why do you think the UK cannot sustain a population of this size? As the population grows so does infrastructure. The population in 1985 was 56 million. Fast forward 40 years and it’s nigh on 70 million. Habitable land in the UK is not the issue. London metro area will grow to around 11 million in the next decade. 40 years ago it was around 6.5 million. There is no logical or economic reason why they UK population cannot be 90 million in 40 years time. The UK has the space, all that is required is the infrastructure.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Spain anticipates adding a further 27 million
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To prop up pensions and nothing else.

What comes next and the 27 million need pensions propped up?

Add another 27 million?

Tune in next week when those saying these things with a straight face are back telling us how humans are killing the planet and we can’t keep on as we are lol
 
blueinsa said:
To prop up pensions and nothing else.

What comes next and the 27 million need pensions propped up?

Add another 27 million?

Tune in next week when those saying these things with a straight face are back telling us how humans are killing the planet and we can’t keep on as we are lol
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The 27 million is a projection to combat Spain’s aging population and declining birthrate, and is similar to the ‘UK will require 20 million by 2064’ projection. Spain has eased its pathway to citizenship for migrants in recognition of the birthrate issue.

Spain’s population on current trends will hit around 54 million in 2050 with 40-70 being the largest age group. Population is projected to decline thereafter. The pensions/demographics/birthrate conundrum is a difficult one to crack.

Any suggestions?
 
BobKowalski said:
The 27 million is a projection to combat Spain’s aging population and declining birthrate, and is similar to the ‘UK will require 20 million by 2064’ projection. Spain has eased its pathway to citizenship for migrants in recognition of the birthrate issue.

Spain’s population on current trends will hit around 54 million in 2050 with 40-70 being the largest age group. Population is projected to decline thereafter. The pensions/demographics/birthrate conundrum is a difficult one to crack.

Any suggestions?
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Even if we bring in 20 million people it doesn’t solve or stop the ageing population - it’s going to happen either way. It’s also completely unsustainable.

Pretty much every country in the world has an ageing population, ferrying in millions of people doesn’t solve it. As a poster above has said those 20 million will also need looking after - do we then bring another 20m in to look after them? ( a never ending cycle).

China has a huge problem with an ageing demographic, should they bring in 200m people to solve it?

Maybe we just have to accept we’ll have a lower population or start paying care workers more money.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Even if we bring in 20 million people it doesn’t solve or stop the ageing population - it’s going to happen either way. It’s also completely unsustainable.

Pretty much every country in the world has an ageing population, ferrying in millions of people doesn’t solve it. As a poster above has said those 20 million will also need looking after - do we then bring another 20m in to look after them? ( a never ending cycle).

China has a huge problem with an ageing demographic, should they bring in 200m people to solve it?

Maybe we just have to accept we’ll have a lower population or start paying care workers more money.
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It's why it's a Ponzi scheme and Bob knows this he just doesn't care, if someone quotes 20 million more, 100 million more it doesn't matter.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Even if we bring in 20 million people it doesn’t solve or stop the ageing population - it’s going to happen either way. It’s also completely unsustainable.

Pretty much every country in the world has an ageing population, ferrying in millions of people doesn’t solve it. As a poster above has said those 20 million will also need looking after - do we then bring another 20m in to look after them? ( a never ending cycle).

China has a huge problem with an ageing demographic, should they bring in 200m people to solve it?

Maybe we just have to accept we’ll have a lower population or start paying care workers more money.
Click to expand...

The issue is the demographic profile of the population. The increased numbers are (currently) the solution to that issue. Having a lower population does not solve that issue.

To restate. Birthrate is declining and is below replacement rate. This will mean population decline (see Japan) and a growing sector of people aged 65 and over (again, see Japan).

If we maintain immigration is not the answer, then you need a different solution. For example British women are having children later in life which can restrict the number of children they can have. But a successful career woman in her forties may wish to have children, so should we encourage a policy of IVF, frozen eggs, embryos etc, giving older women that opportunity. Should we encourage this outside of the traditional family structure given another barrier to fertility is that women are more discerning when it comes to having a partner. Should we actively encourage births outside of marriage with the State providing more active financial and/or emotional support.

Perhaps we need to rethink our cultural traditions and bias in order to tackle the problem, but we need to tackle it in some way shape or form. Painting a St George cross in a roundabout or shouting at people in hotels isn’t going to cut it.

So, lay out your solutions.
 
BobKowalski said:
Ah, I do remember the Pol Pot line. I enjoyed that one. Yes, you wanted to force the ‘work shy’ back into the labour market. More seriously, I have no issue with encouraging people back into the labour market. Retraining and other schemes are to be welcomed. I also favour a strong social security net for those unable to work and better child and nursery support for single moms allowing them to work etc.

You don’t need to realign our education system to our job market given the job market can rapidly change. A well educated population is a goal in itself and not solely there to feed the labour market. You can have more technical and vocational education for those who have an aptitude and interest. The State should encourage a wide variety of choices from the sciences to the arts and the vocational.

And while this is all good and admirable you will still have the issue of a low fertility rate, meaning you will need to import immigrant labour. The fundamental problem still remains.
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Blair did realign our education system and left us with 630,000 graduates on Universal credit and no construction workers to build anything and little prospect of remedy as far too many young people have been given unrealistic expectations . All done with the best of intentions of course.
A well educated population is a goal in itself and not solely there to feed the labour market. You can have more technical and vocational education for those who have an aptitude and interest. The State should encourage a wide variety of choices from the sciences to the arts and the vocational.
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More turn of the century hot air I'm afraid, we have lived this for the last 25 years Bob and look where it has got us - Skill shortages everywhere, unwanted graduates with unwanted degrees and a bloated University sector on the point of collapse.
I see you comment on the impact of AI and you appear to understand the implications ( though understate them I think ) but if that is the case we cannot be so careless as to provide so little career direction to our young people and leave us as a country without the skills we need in the future.

As I have mentioned repeatedly any requirement for low skilled migration can be taken care of by Guest worker schemes, it is simply unaffordable and unnecessary to confer full citizenship and all its benefits for such work.
 
hilts said:
It's why it's a Ponzi scheme and Bob knows this he just doesn't care, if someone quotes 20 million more, 100 million more it doesn't matter.
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You are an absolute fruit bat who does nothing more on here than attack posters.

Fucking Blue, my arse. You have no respect, why are you so weird?
 
Hertzblue said:
Blair did realign our education system and left us with 630,000 graduates on Universal credit and no construction workers to build anything and little prospect of remedy as far too many young people have been given unrealistic expectations . All done with the best of intentions of course.

More turn of the century hot air I'm afraid, we have lived this for the last 25 years Bob and look where it has got us - Skill shortages everywhere, unwanted graduates with unwanted degrees and a bloated University sector on the point of collapse.
I see you comment on the impact of AI and you appear to understand the implications ( though understate them I think ) but if that is the case we cannot be so careless as to provide so little career direction to our young people and leave us as a country without the skills we need in the future.

As I have mentioned repeatedly any requirement for low skilled migration can be taken care of by Guest worker schemes, it is simply unaffordable and unnecessary to confer full citizenship and all its benefits for such work.
Click to expand...

You, like Blair, want to realign our education system. I am against this. If you think Blair was wrong then you are also wrong. Give children a well rounded education and then provide career paths from sciences to the arts and vocational training. Frankly, with AI threatening white collar jobs I would urge youngsters to train as plumbers.

AI I think will be a game changer, but, currently, it is more hype than substance.

As for guest workers, I don’t think you understand capitalism or how supply and demand works. If every advanced economy requires/demands immigrant labour then that labour is in the supply business and each economy will be in competition with the other for that labour. In short, the UK will need to present itself as an attractive destination for that labour otherwise it will go elsewhere. This means health care, education and services and yes, a path to citizenship if they want to exercise that option.
 
BobKowalski said:
You, like Blair, want to realign our education system. I am against this. If you think Blair was wrong then you are also wrong. Give children a well rounded education and then provide career paths from sciences to the arts and vocational training. Frankly, with AI threatening white collar jobs I would urge youngsters to train as plumbers.

AI I think will be a game changer, but, currently, it is more hype than substance.

As for guest workers, I don’t think you understand capitalism or how supply and demand works. If every advanced economy requires/demands immigrant labour then that labour is in the supply business and each economy will be in competition with the other for that labour. In short, the UK will need to present itself as an attractive destination for that labour otherwise it will go elsewhere. This means health care, education and services and yes, a path to citizenship if they want to exercise that option.
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Are you seriously trying to suggest we cannot attract people on a guest worker scheme ?
Gulf states don’t seem to have a problem and they treat them like shit .
I think we will look very attractive by comparison.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Even if we bring in 20 million people it doesn’t solve or stop the ageing population - it’s going to happen either way. It’s also completely unsustainable.

Pretty much every country in the world has an ageing population, ferrying in millions of people doesn’t solve it. As a poster above has said those 20 million will also need looking after - do we then bring another 20m in to look after them? ( a never ending cycle).

China has a huge problem with an ageing demographic, should they bring in 200m people to solve it?

Maybe we just have to accept we’ll have a lower population or start paying care workers more money.
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Bob can circle the wagons around his Ponzi scheme all he likes .
The reality is the politics .
The people of this county are done with mass migration, Bob’s cause is already lost . The next government will draw back the curtain on the true cost of this experiment at every level and it will be horrendous.
It will be a while after that before there is any appetite for more.
That said there will be a requirement for migration and if we do find ourselves in a hole with it then I’m sure if Bob still has breath he will be on here to say I told you so :)
 
Purely by chance (as much as logarithms allow), below a post from someone I knew on LinkedIn was this. Not even about the UK but it seemed worth a read.

www.linkedin.com

How Switzerland's apprenticeship model can reduce youth unemployment | Toyyib Adewale Adelodun posted on the topic | LinkedIn

In Switzerland, graduates are not praying for jobs. Most of them already had employment contracts since they were in SS1. At age 15, Swiss teenagers start apprenticeships. The VET model 3–4 days a week, they work in real companies. 1–2 days a week, they study in vocational schools. Industry...
www.linkedin.com www.linkedin.com


I think one of the comments asks why should a 16-year-old take a narrow career choice (especially in one that might soon be automated). As one teacher put it, "We're trying to train people for jobs that don't exist yet".
 
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Hertzblue said:
Blair did realign our education system and left us with 630,000 graduates on Universal credit and no construction workers to build anything and little prospect of remedy as far too many young people have been given unrealistic expectations . All done with the best of intentions of course.

More turn of the century hot air I'm afraid, we have lived this for the last 25 years Bob and look where it has got us - Skill shortages everywhere, unwanted graduates with unwanted degrees and a bloated University sector on the point of collapse.
I see you comment on the impact of AI and you appear to understand the implications ( though understate them I think ) but if that is the case we cannot be so careless as to provide so little career direction to our young people and leave us as a country without the skills we need in the future.

As I have mentioned repeatedly any requirement for low skilled migration can be taken care of by Guest worker schemes, it is simply unaffordable and unnecessary to confer full citizenship and all its benefits for such work.
Click to expand...

It works for Bob and others:-) his argument of what's your solution is laughable especially as he hasn't provided one nor is the current one working. Its just repetitive obstacles and nonsense post after post.

I gave him a website to check out, are all the answers there? Can us posters provide any? Who knows but Bob just ignores it, he doesn't really want a discussion because he isn't really interested so he just carries on.

Supply and demand
What business wants
Supply and demand
What business wants

It's a never ending loop really

Ironically like his ponzi scheme.
 
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