The Labour Government

Hertzblue said:
Are you seriously trying to suggest we cannot attract people on a guest worker scheme ?
Gulf states don’t seem to have a problem and they treat them like shit .
I think we will look very attractive by comparison.
Click to expand...

All Gulf states run a guest worker scheme which has been criticised for human rights violations, trafficking and sexual slavery. The attraction for workers has been the money a large proportion of which is remitted back to families. This means billions of dollars leaving the Gulf economies rather than staying in the economy given up to 90% of the private workforce can be immigrants. Less of a problem for a petro state more of an issue for a consumer economy.

The last decade has seen some reforms including the right to heath care, maternity leave, sick pay, set working hours, vacation pay etc. Some Gulf States have also abolished the Kafala system.

However, we are not a petro state and we operate in a region with other liberal advanced economies with statutory rights and obligations to workers and it is these states we will be in competition with for immigrant labour and yes treating immigrant labour marginally less shittier that your average Gulf State will make us a less attractive destination for that labour.
 
Hertzblue said:
…The reality is the politics .
The people of this county are done with mass migration, Bob’s cause is already lost . The next government will draw back the curtain on the true cost of this experiment at every level and it will be horrendous.
It will be a while after that before there is any appetite for more.
That said there will be a requirement for migration and if we do find ourselves in a hole with it then I’m sure if Bob still has breath he will be on here to say I told you so :)
Click to expand...

The truth buried in the breathless excitement of a country with no immigrants. And despite my invitation to you all for solutions to the demographic conundrum facing us all I hear nothing. Nada. Jack shit.

So, is anyone going to step up?
 
BobKowalski said:
The truth buried in the breathless excitement of a country with no immigrants. And despite my invitation to you all for solutions to the demographic conundrum facing us all I hear nothing. Nada. Jack shit.

So, is anyone going to step up?
Click to expand...

That poster didn't say no immigrants - you lied, in fact I'm keen on less people but has anyone said no immigrants?

I gave you a Web page for perusal with some solutions on Thursday, I've also stated why asking a poster for a solution is fuckwittery or deflection.

Will you now hide for a bit again Bob or explain to those who already know what the age demographic problem is.
 
hilts said:
That poster didn't say no immigrants - you lied, in fact I'm keen on less people but has anyone said no immigrants?

I gave you a Web page for perusal with some solutions on Thursday, I've also stated why asking a poster for a solution is fuckwittery or deflection.

Will you now hide for a bit again Bob or explain to those who already know what the age demographic problem is.
Click to expand...

Define ‘less’ or indeed ‘mass’ immigration. What is this ‘magic’ number that everyone finds acceptable? For some it is zero. Posters on here have stated they want a pause or a freeze on immigration or they want a net zero immigration. People in = people out. And when you start drilling down, by citing numbers needed in health care, social care, hospitality etc, the back peddling begins and we are back where we started. The immigration argument is as predictable as it is dumb.

Your link was interesting and I agree with a lot of their aims. Protecting the environment, bio-diversity, women’s rights. The goal of curbing population growth, or even reducing it, is somewhat outdated. Population explosion concerns and steps to curb it like China’s one child policy have been overtaken by the realisation we are heading in the opposite direction and the need to reverse the declining fertility rate. Although, I imagine Population Matters will be popping the champagne corks at the long term population trends.

I’m still not seeing solutions from PM, but I do think they are right to be concerned over the threat to women’s rights, specifically in the area of reproductive and contraceptive rights. This I think is a real threat.

populationmatters.org

Gilead Watch: Protect women's rights from pronatal politicians - Population Matters

In some countries, politicians are trying to restrict women's rights and access to contraception to try to increase the birth rate.
populationmatters.org populationmatters.org
 
BobKowalski said:
Define ‘less’ or indeed ‘mass’ immigration. What is this ‘magic’ number that everyone finds acceptable? For some it is zero. Posters on here have stated they want a pause or a freeze on immigration or they want a net zero immigration. People in = people out. And when you start drilling down, by citing numbers needed in health care, social care, hospitality etc, the back peddling begins and we are back where we started. The immigration argument is as predictable as it is dumb.

Your link was interesting and I agree with a lot of their aims. Protecting the environment, bio-diversity, women’s rights. The goal of curbing population growth, or even reducing it, is somewhat outdated. Population explosion concerns and steps to curb it like China’s one child policy have been overtaken by the realisation we are heading in the opposite direction and the need to reverse the declining fertility rate. Although, I imagine Population Matters will be popping the champagne corks at the long term population trends.

I’m still not seeing solutions from PM, but I do think they are right to be concerned over the threat to women’s rights, specifically in the area of reproductive and contraceptive rights. This I think is a real threat.

populationmatters.org

Gilead Watch: Protect women's rights from pronatal politicians - Population Matters

In some countries, politicians are trying to restrict women's rights and access to contraception to try to increase the birth rate.
populationmatters.org populationmatters.org
Click to expand...

There is no magic number and it works both ways, I have yet to hear immigration fanatics give a number, my opinion outside of the environment(which you continue to ignore) is that the numbers do not reflect the actual needs of the country, its funny how if the figure is 100,000 or 900,000 people will still argue its not too high. You think this govt or any other purposely created those figures and based it on actual needs skulls and true vacancies.
I'm afraid most posters on here fall for confirmation bias or make the presumption anti immigration is racist and they cannot concede points because of it.
I have little confidence.that any govt scheme will run smoothly or accurately, I don't even think they have a true clue about the numbers.
 
hilts said:
There is no magic number and it works both ways, I have yet to hear immigration fanatics give a number, my opinion outside of the environment(which you continue to ignore) is that the numbers do not reflect the actual needs of the country, its funny how if the figure is 100,000 or 900,000 people will still argue its not too high. You think this govt or any other purposely created those figures and based it on actual needs skulls and true vacancies.
I'm afraid most posters on here fall for confirmation bias or make the presumption anti immigration is racist and they cannot concede points because of it.
I have little confidence.that any govt scheme will run smoothly or accurately, I don't even think they have a true clue about the numbers.
Click to expand...

In summary, Govt, analysts, economists, industry and health sector leaders etc, are ushering in numbers that do not reflect the economic needs of the country, but are in fact making it up as they go along. Presumably just for kicks and giggles.

Gotcha.
 
BobKowalski said:
In summary, Govt, analysts, economists, industry and health sector leaders etc, are ushering in numbers that do not reflect the economic needs of the country, but are in fact making it up as they go along. Presumably just for kicks and giggles.

Gotcha.
Click to expand...

No there is a difference between making it up and being competent or going to the efforts of actually checking if the businesses cannot get staff full stop or just on what they are offering.

If you think there is no way we can do it better and think of the future then....

Well it just means i had you pegged right all along.

We got there.
 
BobKowalski said:
The truth buried in the breathless excitement of a country with no immigrants. And despite my invitation to you all for solutions to the demographic conundrum facing us all I hear nothing. Nada. Jack shit.

So, is anyone going to step up?
Click to expand...
Is that selective amnesia or early onset dementia ?
And despite my invitation to you all for solutions to the demographic conundrum facing us all I hear nothing. Nada. Jack shit.
Click to expand...
Just not true. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean you haven't heard them .
 
BobKowalski said:
All Gulf states run a guest worker scheme which has been criticised for human rights violations, trafficking and sexual slavery. The attraction for workers has been the money a large proportion of which is remitted back to families. This means billions of dollars leaving the Gulf economies rather than staying in the economy given up to 90% of the private workforce can be immigrants. Less of a problem for a petro state more of an issue for a consumer economy.

The last decade has seen some reforms including the right to heath care, maternity leave, sick pay, set working hours, vacation pay etc. Some Gulf States have also abolished the Kafala system.

However, we are not a petro state and we operate in a region with other liberal advanced economies with statutory rights and obligations to workers and it is these states we will be in competition with for immigrant labour and yes treating immigrant labour marginally less shittier that your average Gulf State will make us a less attractive destination for that labour.
Click to expand...
Err like I originally said - they treat them like shit - yet they still get them , I said we would because we will not treat them like shit. My goodness I think you have agreed Bob. So why give them unaffordable and unnecessary citizenship ?
 
Hertzblue said:
Is that selective amnesia or early onset dementia ?

Just not true. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean you haven't heard them .
Click to expand...

You came up with the solution to the UK’s declining birthrate, averting population decline and demographic imbalance?

This will be welcome news to every advanced economy on the planet. Bluemoon is a truly wonderful resource.

Can you remind me again?
 
Hertzblue said:
Err like I originally said - they treat them like shit - yet they still get them , I said we would because we will not treat them like shit. My goodness I think you have agreed Bob. So why give them unaffordable and unnecessary citizenship ?
Click to expand...

Again, we are not a petro state in the Gulf. We are an advanced service and consumer economy in Europe and competing with other advanced service and consumer economies in Europe.

But if you are happy to accept immigrants provided you can be mean to them, then that is progress of sorts I guess. Baby steps.
 
BobKowalski said:
Again, we are not a petro state in the Gulf. We are an advanced service and consumer economy in Europe and competing with other advanced service and consumer economies in Europe.

But if you are happy to accept immigrants provided you can be mean to them, then that is progress of sorts I guess. Baby steps.
Click to expand...
FFS
But if you are happy to accept immigrants provided you can be mean to them
Click to expand...
That is the opposite of what I said , you must know that so I can only presume that is to deflect from your original claim that you have now gone back on , that we wouldn't be able to attract guest workers.
 
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