The Labour Government

[Brewster's millions]

Dont accept that ......

Property number 1. The grace and favour home provided by the taxpayer is temporary (at best) and does not count.

Property number 2. The place in Hove which she declared was to be her primary residence.

Property number 3. The house previously owned by her and her husband, Following their split this property was placed in trust for her disabled son . Where she fell foul was that the law still recognises the parents (if trustees) as ''owning'' the property if the person ultimately benefitting is under 18 years of age . Charlie (her son) is 17. She visits the property and her son once a fortnight

Now (as a labour supporter) Im not making excuses for Rayner because she should've taken expert advice and she didn't. But when the tax expert in the Daily Telegraph says that even he wasn't aware of the law as it pertained to this particular case you can see why mistakes were made.

By the way ... she's not the only one who is in trouble

'Hypocrite' Nigel Farage didn't pay £44k stamp duty then blasted Angela Rayner

Last year Nigel Farage announced he had bought a house in Clacton, Essex, but in fact it was his partner Laure Ferrari, 46, who shelled out almost £900,000 for the property

www.mirror.co.uk

She underpaid stamp duty to the tune of 40k.

She was found to have broken the ministerial code in the circumstances that led to this shortfall in tax.

She will very likely be fined by HMRC.

When questioned on the legal advice she received, she lied.

She only resigned when it was obvious she was about to be sacked.

You are making excuses for her.

Have a good day.

 

[Vic]

Northern folk aren't fools either, you do get a few who sneer but they clocked Angela in Ashton right enough - hardly a good word for her in the Market Hall tv interviews. I also met her through work back in the day and was impressed but I think her political success has changed her a lot.

Didn't the vox pops include a trader who'd won an award complaining about getting a letter of congratulations from the MP?

 

[metalblue]

Chances are you've never met her. Personally I have; I knew her through the TU movement long before she was an MP.

I never cease to be amazed that other (mainly) working class people literally despise other working class people who do well in life. It's as if they're crying out for Jacob Rees-Mogg types to tell them what's best for them!

So, just put of interest, have you reserved your rabid ire for a) all politicians b) all female politicians c) just this female politician or d) have you got anger issues that prevent you from expressing yourself?

Maybe we might not like being governed by people we see as similar to ourselves and it’s just part of our national psyche?

There is a certain comfort in the Moggs of this world fucking up and we can scoff at them because, well, they ain’t one of us!!

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

A view from within the party.

 

[Brewster's millions]

Ffs Vic, why are you still going about this.
The verdict is already in, the ethics advisor has spoken, Ange has admitted she should have paid, she chose not to get advice, she has resigned. Additionally it has come to light that she charged her sons trust £164k for 25% of a house he already owned 50% of and his dad owned the other 25% " for his security" ? Furthermore it is alleged that the house valuation for that purpose was over valued by up to £100k allowing her to charge her son's trust up to £25k more than her share was worth. To buy a £800k flat in Hove , 260 miles away from her son and her constituents.
I understand that yourself and others may have had up to this point a romanticised view of Ange as some kind of working class totem, pure in thought and deed, a tonic to the capture of the Labour Party by London progressives.
It is hard when someone violates that trust, I get you may feel betrayed. But this obdurate denial is ridiculous.
She isn't what you thought she was. She may have been once, but not any more. She is done .

Slight correction, if I may.

She received £162,500 for her 25% share of the property, implying a gain in house price of around £130,000 over and above the typical increase that could be attributed to house price inflation.

Anything over £162,500 would obviously have led to a IHT liability.

Pure coincidence, of course.

 

[Roachy]

She underpaid stamp duty to the tune of 40k.

She was found to have broken the ministerial code in the circumstances that led to this shortfall in tax.

She will very likely be fined by HMRC.

When questioned on the legal advice she received, she lied.

She only resigned when it was obvious she was about to be sacked.

You are making excuses for her.

Have a good day.

A short, and in all likelihood, correct synopsis of events. It can be nuanced dependant on people's persuasions, but this seems to be what happened.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Chances are you've never met her. Personally I have; I knew her through the TU movement long before she was an MP.

I never cease to be amazed that other (mainly) working class people literally despise other working class people who do well in life. It's as if they're crying out for Jacob Rees-Mogg types to tell them what's best for them!

So, just put of interest, have you reserved your rabid ire for a) all politicians b) all female politicians c) just this female politician or d) have you got anger issues that prevent you from expressing yourself?

I simply don’t understand, nor has anyone adequately explained to me, what is so dislikable about Angela Rayner.

It’s obvious she is reviled by lots of people but no one has properly articulated the reason for that, at least not on here.

‘Loathsome harpy’ is a label, not a rationale and sums up for me the erase at which people can give her labels without actually providing a reason for the hatred.

I’ve posted in pretty abrasive, at times contemptible, terms about Liz Truss but have provided extensive reasoning for that (which I’m more than happy to repeat) which doesn’t seem to be forthcoming when it comes to those who criticise Rayner.

I think some of it is rooted in snobbery, and some men are certainly threatened by strident, confident women, usually because of their own inadequacies, but of course in those instances that won’t be provided as a reason by them so they fall back on pejorative terms to mask that.

I think tbf @johnny crossan had a go a few pages back, although I felt his reasoning was poor, but at least he tried - all I get from pretty much every other poster who dislikes Rayner is the fact they don’t like her, rather than any reasoning why.

 

[Vic]

She underpaid stamp duty to the tune of 40k.

She was found to have broken the ministerial code in the circumstances that led to this shortfall in tax.

She will very likely be fined by HMRC.

When questioned on the legal advice she received, she lied.

She only resigned when it was obvious she was about to be sacked.

You are making excuses for her.

Have a good day.

The first two sentences above are true.

Now, Farage said he'd bought a house in Clacton but it was bought by his immigrant fiancee. That's true.

He did that to avoid higher stamp duty because, unlike Rayner, he owned another property. (And avoided tax on others by having his company buy them.)

Which did you comment on?

(And which has the Daily Mail called a "burgeoning property empire"?)

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

She underpaid stamp duty to the tune of 40k.

She was found to have broken the ministerial code in the circumstances that led to this shortfall in tax.

She will very likely be fined by HMRC.

Agree with all of that apart from the fine, which I think is unlikely, at least based on what I know. Think the fact she’s ponied up (or will have done by the time any fine is assessed) and the fact it’s an isolated incident and not a course of conduct will probably simplify things there.

She’ll be liable for interest of course.

 

[Blue and true]

I simply don’t understand, nor has anyone adequately explained to me, what is so dislikable about Angela Rayner.

It’s obvious she is reviled by lots of people but no one has properly articulated the reason for that, at least not on here.

‘Loathsome harpy’ is a label, not a rationale and sums up for me the erase at which people can give her labels without actually providing a reason for the hatred.

I’ve posted in pretty abrasive, at times contemptible, terms about Liz Truss but have provided extensive reasoning for that (which I’m more than happy to repeat) which doesn’t seem to be forthcoming when it comes to those who criticise Rayner.

I think some of it is rooted in snobbery, and some men are certainly threatened by strident, confident women, usually because of their own inadequacies, but of course in those instances that won’t be provided as a reason by them so they fall back on pejorative terms to mask that.

I think tbf @johnny crossan had a go a few pages back, although I felt his reasoning was poor, but at least he tried - all I get from pretty much every other poster who dislikes Rayner is the fact they don’t like her, rather than any reasoning why.

Your fifth paragraph sums it up. She didn't fit the Whitehall archetype, ergo they didn't like her from minute one. Meanwhile, the usual fossils on here fawn over the likes of serial liar and charlatan Johnson, and walking talking caricatures like Mogg, who would take us back to Victorian level stratification if he could. I recall a few on here denigrating Rayner because of her accent; that's right, on a fan forum of a club rooted in working class traditions, some felt she was unworthy because of her accent. Fucking losers.

She fucked up, as invariably they all do, but I'd still trust her more than hundreds of the other twats who preceded her.

 

[Brewster's millions]

The first two sentences above are true.

Now, Farage said he'd bought a house in Clacton but it was bought by his immigrant fiancee. That's true.

He did that to avoid higher stamp duty because, unlike Rayner, he owned another property.

Which did you comment on?

Funnily enough, and you might want to sit down for this one, my comment in the Labour government thread related to the Labour government minister. Former government minister, that is.

If Farage has deliberately dodged the higher rate of stamp duty, I’d like him to be investigated and dealt with appropriately. Maybe you should start a thread on his possible indiscretion, and then we can all discuss that particular case.

As a socialist, I assume you’re happy that Rayner’s tax affairs have been investigated and that the additional £40k (plus any fines) will be provided to the exchequer, so that it can be directed to those who need it most. Keen to hear your thoughts.

 

[johnny crossan]

Didn't the vox pops include a trader who'd won an award complaining about getting a letter of congratulations from the MP?

She objected to being addressed by her first name when they'd never met I think. Bit petty I agree - don't think the BBC sample was rigged though - unusual there was hardly any praise at all really or indeed sympathy.

 

[blueinsa]

Dont accept that ......

Property number 1. The grace and favour home provided by the taxpayer is temporary (at best) and does not count.

Property number 2. The place in Hove which she declared was to be her primary residence.

Property number 3. The house previously owned by her and her husband, Following their split this property was placed in trust for her disabled son . Where she fell foul was that the law still recognises the parents (if trustees) as ''owning'' the property if the person ultimately benefitting is under 18 years of age . Charlie (her son) is 17. She visits the property and her son once a fortnight

Now (as a labour supporter) Im not making excuses for Rayner because she should've taken expert advice and she didn't. But when the tax expert in the Daily Telegraph says that even he wasn't aware of the law as it pertained to this particular case you can see why mistakes were made.

By the way ... she's not the only one who is in trouble

'Hypocrite' Nigel Farage didn't pay £44k stamp duty then blasted Angela Rayner

Last year Nigel Farage announced he had bought a house in Clacton, Essex, but in fact it was his partner Laure Ferrari, 46, who shelled out almost £900,000 for the property

www.mirror.co.uk

She didn’t pay £40k in tax and she knew she was liable.

She took a gag order out to try and keep it a secret ffs and only when she got told the recommendation was to dismiss her did she resign.

Spin it how you like, it doesn’t change any of that.

 

[Palerider]

Understandable mistake from Rayner from a 'capitalist' point of view (no one wants to pay more tax). However Rayner is supposed to be a socialist so the optics of using her huge salary to buy a lovely house in a lovely part of the country surrounded by lovely people rather than using that huge salary to 'trickle down' to the struggling businesses and people in Ashton stinks for me. So definitely guilty of hypocricy, wants the kudos of being a 'lovely, caring' socialist but when it all goes tits up wants to be judged as a capitalist.

 

[blueinsa]

Lord Ali will help with the fine anyway I’m sure ;-)

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Understandable mistake from Rayner from a 'capitalist' point of view (no one wants to pay more tax). However Rayner is supposed to be a socialist so the optics of using her huge salary to buy a lovely house in a lovely part of the country surrounded by lovely people rather than using that huge salary to 'trickle down' to the struggling businesses and people in Ashton stinks for me. So definitely guilty of hypocricy, wants the kudos of being a 'lovely, caring' socialist but when it all goes tits up wants to be judged as a capitalist.

Why is a socialist not allowed to live in a nice part of the country?

 

[johnny crossan]

I simply don’t understand, nor has anyone adequately explained to me, what is so dislikable about Angela Rayner.
.....I think tbf @johnny crossan had a go a few pages back, although I felt his reasoning was poor, but at least he tried - all I get from pretty much every other poster who dislikes Rayner is the fact they don’t like her, rather than any reasoning why.

The reason I don't like Angela is simply that she's not genuine. Her use of abusive playground language is carefully calculated. It jars with me and what I was taught but tbf so does much of the same stuff on here, even when deployed by silver-tongued pros like yourself ;-)

 

[Vic]

She didn’t pay £40k in tax and she knew she was liable.

She took a gag order out to try and keep it a secret ffs and only when she got told the recommendation was to dismiss her did she resign.

Spin it how you like, it doesn’t change any of that.

That may be the spinniest thread on a thread full of spinny things.

 

[Vic]

Understandable mistake from Rayner from a 'capitalist' point of view (no one wants to pay more tax). However Rayner is supposed to be a socialist so the optics of using her huge salary to buy a lovely house in a lovely part of the country surrounded by lovely people rather than using that huge salary to 'trickle down' to the struggling businesses and people in Ashton stinks for me. So definitely guilty of hypocricy, wants the kudos of being a 'lovely, caring' socialist but when it all goes tits up wants to be judged as a capitalist.

Trying to de-spin that, you mean she should have bought a house in Ashton (to live in instead of staying part of the time in the house under trust for her son), and the money paid for it would "trickle down" to local traders rather than be spent by the sellers on stuff bought online? And that's being anti-capitalist?

 

[threespires]

Party political stances are making people utterly moronic and completely devoid of rational thought. I really don’t get how we’ve ended up here.

Imo the vast majority of our media, old and new forms, is simply no longer fit for purpose in terms of supporting healthy democracy. Don't think this has happened accidentally either. Shortsightedness and weakness by politicians in dealing with a variety of bad actors has allowed this anti-democratic clusterfuck to occur.