The Labour Government

[Kirkstall Blue]

This chart shows Reeves already knew but did she lie on purpose ?

 

[metalblue]

I love all the anger over the OBR letter, which was common knowledge prior to the pre and budget speech.

It’s almost as if the government has understood how the media in this country works and proper had them over.

‘Eh you guys, there’s a possible option that we may raise income tax and break our manifesto policy … even though you should already know that we’ve come in on budget ;-).’

So in your mind the government thought fuck it let’s delay the budget, trail income tax rises, make retail suffer with the uncertainty, etc etc all for a bit of a laugh with the media. I thought the adults were supposed to be in charge.

In summary, you’re wrong, very wrong.

 

[marco]

so no black hole, the only black hole is housing the migrants but they cant say that can they, so attack the hard working with tax hikes, dress it up as to pay fiscal debt and divert the money via benefits to those that arive in the UK
Great plan Baldrick but she's been caught

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

So in your mind the government thought fuck it let’s delay the budget, trail income tax rises, make retail suffer with the uncertainty, etc etc all for a bit of a laugh with the media. I thought the adults were supposed to be in charge.

In summary, you’re wrong, very wrong.

Just a little joke, mate.

At the time, I asked the question why many in the media were going ballistic regarding a supposed rise in income tax. I’d already listened to an expert who’d stated that the ‘black hole’ had shrunk to a negligible level and Reeves would be setting the budget for future spend, not trying to clear the past.

Personally, I just didn’t understand the uproar, and still don’t. If I understood that the media furore was a load of bollox, why didn’t they?

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

so no black hole, the only black hole is housing the migrants but they cant say that can they, so attack the hard working with tax hikes, dress it up as to pay fiscal debt and divert the money via benefits to those that arive in the UK
Great plan Baldrick but she's been caught

Step away from the migrant bollox. Yes, it costs, but there is far more to do to ensure our future children have some form of social contract and not paying for our failures.

Defence, NHS, education, national debt, it all needs sorting.

 

[marco]

Step away from the migrant bollox. Yes, it costs, but there is far more to do to ensure our future children have some form of social contract and not paying for our failures.

Defence, NHS, education, national debt, it all needs sorting.

all that comes under one thing 'national debt' are the migrants free? do they wave a fucking wond and hey presto bill paid, its a fiscal fact get over it

 

[Quad]

surprise surprise no black hole, more lies and wonder why people want change and want reform in

 

[mosssideblue]

surprise surprise no black hole, more lies and wonder why people want change and want reform in

Do you want Reform in?

 

[hampshireblue]

so no black hole, the only black hole is housing the migrants but they cant say that can they, so attack the hard working with tax hikes, dress it up as to pay fiscal debt and divert the money via benefits to those that arive in the UK
Great plan Baldrick but she's been caught

Don't forget to have a go at the feckless, workshy Brits, those getting child benefit earning nearly £60k a year, all those over 60s getting free prescriptions, all those in full time employment getting UC..... all of these groups rely in some way or another on some form of "hard working" funded benefits and you choose to select a group of migrants.

I'll be surprised if most people on this forum are not getting some form of hard working funded benefits although many may choose not to acknowledge it.

I think your singling out one group says alot about you as a person.

 

[hampshireblue]

surprise surprise no black hole, more lies and wonder why people want change and want reform in

To achieve what?

 

[Brewster's millions]

I love all the anger over the OBR letter, which was common knowledge prior to the pre and budget speech.

It’s almost as if the government has understood how the media in this country works and proper had them over.

‘Eh you guys, there’s a possible option that we may raise income tax and break our manifesto policy … even though you should already know that we’ve come in on budget ;-).’

That simply isn’t true and you can’t be aware of the timeline of OBR communications if you actually believe that.

Reeves was aware of the impact of the productivity downgrade being partially offset by other factors as early as 17 September. At that time, she was projected to miss her fiscal targets - marginally - without action.

By the end of October the OBR’s forecast had improved and even without any policy changes, the OBR told Reeves she would still meet her fiscal rules.

Reeves however still gave her pre-budget speech on 4th November, focusing on how the OBR productivity downgrade had severely damaged the fiscal position and pushed the apparent need to raise income tax to the press.

On 10 November she told the BBC that maintaining the manifesto pledges on tax would mean that deep cuts to capital spending would be required. That simply wasn’t true, and it was a clear and obvious lie. Even without any tax measures, let alone ones that broke manifesto commitments, Reeves knew that the fiscal rules would still be met with the existing profile of capital spending.

She then u-turned on the need for an income tax rise on the evening of 13 November, and it was at that point that the improved OBR forecast was leaked to the FT. The gilt market sold off aggressively on 14 November and obviously wouldn’t have done so if the extent of the improvement in the OBR forecast was common knowledge, as you claim.

It’s the Chancellor’s job to support growth in the economy and confidence in the fiscal position. Since last year’s Budget, the gilt interest cost forecast for the next five years has increased by a cumulative £41bn. We’ll all be paying for that. The economy stalled in Q3 - GDP was lower in September than it was in June - and unemployment has increased in every month of the past year.

Do you think Reeves’ actions over the past few months have helped to boost growth and lower borrowing costs? Do you believe that Reeves should have deliberately and dishonestly provided a misleading picture of the news she was receiving from the OBR for political purposes?

If a Tory Chancellor had deliberately misled the public and markets in order to push through an unnecessary cut to public spending, all the lefties on here would be jumping up and down. As it is, they’ve nothing to say about a Chancellor actually choosing to exaggerate the weakness of the public finances, unnecessarily increasing the cost of borrowing, undermining confidence across the economy and deliberately misleading the public.

Reeves should be fired, immediately.

 

[metalblue]

Yes, I get that countries collapse like that, but they aren't bankrupt. Governments create money when they need it. Hyperinflation is the result when it gets out of hand, but they aren't bankrupt in the sense you or I would be if we ran out of money and couldn't service our debts. We cant, as individuals, create money.

You said in an earlier post we were, as a country, heading for bankruptcy. I merely pointed out that it is impossible.

They cease to be able to function, unable to pay public services etc etc, in other words mass unemployment with no money to support them, virtually no public services whatsoever, anything they have goes to army to protect them

I mean technically they might not be declared “bankrupt” like you or I would be but for all intents and purposes they are.

 

[metalblue]

Just a little joke, mate.

At the time, I asked the question why many in the media were going ballistic regarding a supposed rise in income tax. I’d already listened to an expert who’d stated that the ‘black hole’ had shrunk to a negligible level and Reeves would be setting the budget for future spend, not trying to clear the past.

Personally, I just didn’t understand the uproar, and still don’t. If I understood that the media furore was a load of bollox, why didn’t they?

I did wonder mate, thought maybe it was a back from pub post ;)

I can’t go in to all the details but the treasury was working on raising £30bn, that was the envelope requested. Those options presented as some baskets including things like income tax raises were leaked to the media pretty much throughout the process.

The main question being levelled with this OBR is did she mislead markets and that is a serious allegation.

 

[blueinsa]

So in your mind the government thought fuck it let’s delay the budget, trail income tax rises, make retail suffer with the uncertainty, etc etc all for a bit of a laugh with the media. I thought the adults were supposed to be in charge.

In summary, you’re wrong, very wrong.

You have to remember just how clever these guys are mate.

Throw in a dash of the comical Ali and everything is always on plan and as designed.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

all that comes under one thing 'national debt' are the migrants free? do they wave a fucking wond and hey presto bill paid, its a fiscal fact get over it

I get it, you don’t want migrants, and in a perfect world, there’d be none. However, the reality is that we have, for eternity, had to deal with migrants. The question has always been, how do we do it?

I have no need to ‘get over it’ as I’m not the one complaining. Personally, I accept the issue and can only ask the government of the time to put measures in place to deal with it. My only hope is that it’s done in a civilised manner.

 

[Palerider]

Bad week for Labour who seem to be trying to spin lying into a virtue. Big week though for the Tories with a divisive but very effective Badenoch seemingly returning from the grave. Be interesting how the Greens get on now that Corbyns very decisive Your party have made a decision on their name (or not), maybe, possibly, can we vote on it, oh God let's have protest on names to show how much we care. Reform are a passing fad.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I did wonder mate, thought maybe it was a back from pub post ;)

I can’t go in to all the details but the treasury was working on raising £30bn, that was the envelope requested. Those options presented as some baskets including things like income tax raises were leaked to the media pretty much throughout the process.

The main question being levelled with this OBR is did she mislead markets and that is a serious allegation.

Fully understand the background and, as we are all now aware, it has now been confirmed by the OBR that the deficit restricted as we got closer to the budget, so things changed.

I may have been one of those lucky ones who got to listen to one of the top economic experts (can’t remember his name but think I mentioned it on here when the rise in income tax was being debated). He specifically stated that Reeves had seen a closing of the deficit and that she was in a good place, and would probably now look at other options to further support public services and cut debt.

And that kicks in to what the markets actually knew and if she misled them. Well, if the bloke I listened to knew then I’d suggest many of the experts and business leaders knew as well. My question would be why didn’t all the media outlets who created a furore, have any of this information? It was as if somebody like Peston got told something by the cleaner in No 11 that they were taking about ‘Income Tax’ and then just ran with it.

I don’t see myself as an economic expert but I do listen to those that are. Just wondering why the media went into such a frenzy as there hasn’t been any confirmation from them who actually leaked the incorrect detail.

 

[maxwellblue]

So who are the bone idle that the tax rises are funding?

Are you suggesting that everyone on benefits is deserving of them.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

You have to remember just how clever these guys are, mate.

Throw in a dash of the comical Ali and everything is always on plan and as designed.

Well, I’m obviously not as clever as you. But, I don’t mind, I’m not the one running the country.

As for the plan, I’m still to see the what the overarching one is. Be helpful if you gave us all a heads-up instead of just throwing glib quips at people. Brings nothing to the debate.

 

[WRicko]

Fully understand the background and, as we are all now aware, it has now been confirmed by the OBR that the deficit restricted as we got closer to the budget, so things changed.

I may have been one of those lucky ones who got to listen to one of the top economic experts (can’t remember his name but think I mentioned it on here when the rise in income tax was being debated). He specifically stated that Reeves had seen a closing of the deficit and that she was in a good place, and would probably now look at other options to further support public services and cut debt.

And that kicks in to what the markets actually knew and if she misled them. Well, if the bloke I listened to knew then I’d suggest many of the experts and business leaders knew as well. My question would be why didn’t all the media outlets who created a furore, have any of this information? It was as if somebody like Peston got told something by the cleaner in No 11 that they were taking about ‘Income Tax’ and then just ran with it.

I don’t see myself as an economic expert but I do listen to those that are. Just wondering why the media went into such a frenzy as there hasn’t been any confirmation from them who actually leaked the incorrect detail.

Did Reeves even say income tax would go up ? No. Tax rises I guess so but could have meant freezing rates. Maybe they had last minute ideas on how to change the budget from income tax up to new taxes mansion tax, EVs, Freezing rates etc ?