The Labour Government

[Brewster's millions]

They’re deflecting, understandably

14% in the polls and suddenly the possibility or otherwise for a cleaner to retrain as a machine operator becomes the focus of discussion.

 

[hampshireblue]

I never said it was your comment, just that you quoted it.
Please explain how your latest comment, above has any relevance to the post to which you were replying to. You seem to be taking selective snippets on what I've said to try and justify your petty attempts at points scoring.

May I suggest you take the time and look back at my first post on this on Friday(not the post you qoted btw) and all the ones after that. You probably won't though.

If you also bother to look back, this started over Axel, I think it was basically saying anyone with a mundane, low status job was getting paid too much.

From my POV there was no intent to point score, just to highlight that whatever "business" or organisation one is in, it requires a whole team of people to allow it to operate successfully, from the very lowest to the "revenue earners".

In the multi £m organisation I worked in, it was very apparent if say, the cleaners had not done their job properly or someone was sick, but certainly not the case if the unit manger was on leave for a few days or weeks. I know which was the most important for me carrying out my safety critical role on a day to day basis.

 

[hampshireblue]

14% in the polls and suddenly the possibility or otherwise for a cleaner to retrain as a machine operator becomes the focus of discussion.

Maybe they're all in the Reform thread waiting for a positive comment from you or one of their other supporters.

 

[Phil1]

14% in the polls and suddenly the possibility or otherwise for a cleaner to retrain as a machine operator becomes the focus of discussion.

Just folk calling out the likes of you and the other right wingers who like to look down on people you believe your're above.

The world would be far better with less of the latter and more of the former.

 

[hilts]

I think you are missing a few simple and fundamental points in your bid to try and score a point.

Can the cleaner operate the machine? No

Can the cleaner be trained to operate the machine? Possibly

Would said cleaner then want tbe pay of the former operator now they are trained? Probably (unless they are an idiot).

Can the machine operator clean? Yes.

So as a business owner (if I needed to cut costs) I can lay off my operator, train my cleaner to be an machine operator to pay the cleaner the money I was previously paying my machine operator and not have a cleaner OR I could not have a cleaner and just have my machine operator do the cleaning.

It’s really not difficult to understand.

Whose making the brews?

 

[metalblue]

Whose making the brews?

Finally. Someone who understands the lifeblood of British business.

 

[blueish swede]

I think you are missing a few simple and fundamental points in your bid to try and score a point.

Can the cleaner operate the machine? No

Can the cleaner be trained to operate the machine? Possibly

Would said cleaner then want tbe pay of the former operator now they are trained? Probably (unless they are an idiot).

Can the machine operator clean? Yes.

So as a business owner (if I needed to cut costs) I can lay off my operator, train my cleaner to be an machine operator to pay the cleaner the money I was previously paying my machine operator and not have a cleaner OR I could not have a cleaner and just have my machine operator do the cleaning.

It’s really not difficult to understand.

So the business owner is now paying a machine operators wage to some one who is cleaning, not operating a machine.

 

[metalblue]

So the business owner is now paying a machine operators wage to some one who is cleaning, not operating a machine.

Nope. Folk tidy up after themselves, don’t leave food everywhere and so long as you don’t get rats it’s all good.

It’s not necessarily a long term solution granted but it’s way more sensible than laying off someone that can do a job to spend time training someone else to do the same job - if they can even grasp it - and before someone gets on a high horse some machinery and associated safety protocols are incredibly complicated, you fuck it up you have a high chance of not going home that night.

 

[We've got Guardiola]

If you also bother to look back, this started over Axel, I think it was basically saying anyone with a mundane, low status job was getting paid too much.

From my POV there was no intent to point score, just to highlight that whatever "business" or organisation one is in, it requires a whole team of people to allow it to operate successfully, from the very lowest to the "revenue earners".

In the multi £m organisation I worked in, it was very apparent if say, the cleaners had not done their job properly or someone was sick, but certainly not the case if the unit manger was on leave for a few days or weeks. I know which was the most important for me carrying out my safety critical role on a day to day basis.

Really though this doesn't have anything to do with what the cleaner, machine operator or anybody else does.

It's about accountability and responsibility. If something bad happens in your safety critical role then there's a strong chance that it won't be the cleaner who goes to prison.

The first officer of an aircraft is often just as competent as the captain and yet is paid far less. The reason for this is the captain is legally responsible for the aircraft and that's very different to just flying the thing and going home. Similarly the people who clean the aircraft do a very important role but they don't worry about the legal implications of the aircraft crashing do they?

 

[hampshireblue]

Really though this doesn't have anything to do with what the cleaner, machine operator or anybody else does.

It's about accountability and responsibility. If something bad happens in your safety critical role then there's a strong chance that it won't be the cleaner who goes to prison.

The first officer of an aircraft is often just as competent as the captain and yet is paid far less. The reason for this is the captain is legally responsible for the aircraft and that's very different to just flying the thing and going home. Similarly the people who clean the aircraft do a very important role but they don't worry about the legal implications of the aircraft crashing do they?

I agree 100% with your analogy although fortunately we had a strong union, that formed and enhanced, togetehr with management, a very strong Just Culture policy that meant no one was deemed at fault unless they were shown to be acting in an intentionally negligent manner. It meant we had a very open reporting culture, although one or two managers did try to mess it up over the years.

But you're talking about the end of the discussion, not the bit that kicked it off that anyone doing a "low status/skilled" job is getting paid too much.

 

[stonerblue]

14% in the polls and suddenly the possibility or otherwise for a cleaner to retrain as a machine operator becomes the focus of discussion.

Almost like moaning about a minder carrying a few boxes..

 

[Brewster's millions]

Almost like moaning about a minder carrying a few boxes..

Nothing like it at all actually.

Not even vaguely similar.

14%.

 

[mind your car Mr?]

Nope. Folk tidy up after themselves, don’t leave food everywhere and so long as you don’t get rats it’s all good.

It’s not necessarily a long term solution granted but it’s way more sensible than laying off someone that can do a job to spend time training someone else to do the same job - if they can even grasp it - and before someone gets on a high horse some machinery and associated safety protocols are incredibly complicated, you fuck it up you have a high chance of not going home that night.

Fuck me this threads gone full monty python

 

[hilts]

Fuck me this threads gone full monty python Python were funny although they would with

Python were funny although even they would struggle with a cleaner vs machine operator sketch.

 

[metalblue]

Python were funny although even they would struggle with a cleaner vs machine operator sketch.

There is enough comedy gold in the concept of laying someone off only to train someone else to do that job and then have to employ someone to do their former job that I’m sure they could have made a half decent sketch out of it.

 

[west didsblue]

Python were funny although even they would struggle with a cleaner vs machine operator sketch.

Don’t think I’ve ever seen a cleaner who doesn’t operate a machine. I think manual Ewbanks are pretty much obsolete.

 

[metalblue]

Don’t think I’ve ever seen a cleaner who doesn’t operate a machine. I think manual Ewbanks are pretty much obsolete.

Everyone on here would know how to use a hoover or floor polisher - it’s not a skill. No one on here would know how to use, say, a crane or excavator simply because they knew how to work a hoover.

 

[Phil1]

Everyone on here would know how to use a hoover or floor polisher - it’s not a skill. No one on here would know how to use, say, a crane or excavator simply because they knew how to work a hoover.

Both excavator and cranes are a case of just remembering which one of the levers to use at the right time. I reckon they are a piece of piss compared to the daft fucking dyson hoover my missus bought!!

 

[west didsblue]

Everyone on here would know how to use a hoover or floor polisher - it’s not a skill. No one on here would know how to use, say, a crane or excavator simply because they knew how to work a hoover.

It was a tongue in cheek comment. However you could argue that many machines in factories just need switching on because they’re preprogrammed to make whatever component is needed. A hoover won’t find its own way round the room.
Similarly there’s an old joke about pilots needing a dog in the cockpit which is there to bite the pilot if he tries to touch anything once the autopilot is in control.

 

[remember arthur mann]

So the business owner is now paying a machine operators wage to some one who is cleaning, not operating a machine.

About time too.