The Labour Party

hilts said:
An absolute twat of a man, how anyone can vote for him is beyond me.
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My persuasion is that further to the left of centre and so I’m a traditional Labour voter, I cannot bring myself to vote this leadership into power.

He’s a man that defends and befriends racists, is unable or unwilling to tackle a conspiracy theory crisis in his ranks, fails to protect his MP’s (in fact actively chooses not to), has previously sided with terrorist organisations around the UK and is facilitating Brexit (I know this aspect is where we differ).

We really are in the most dire of situations in UK politics.
 
Ban-jani said:
My persuasion is that further to the left of centre and so I’m a traditional Labour voter, I cannot bring myself to vote this leadership into power.

He’s a man that defends and befriends racists, is unable or unwilling to tackle a conspiracy theory crisis in his ranks, fails to protect his MP’s (in fact actively chooses not to), has previously sided with terrorist organisations around the UK and is facilitating Brexit (I know this aspect is where we differ).

We really are in the most dire of situations in UK politics.
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We'd be in the shit without Brexit, due to the lack of quality.

Brexit has just made it 10 times worse.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
How many meetings did Corbyn the messenger of peace conduct with the UDA? Or the DUP?
When attempting conciliation between warring factions, it's common to involve both.
Corbyn has never done anything constructive towards peace because he supports the aims of the IRA,
as has been well documented, he's never 'Stood in solidarity' with anyone other than terrorist groups,
wreath laying at PLO terrorist graves being another of his jolly japes.
His mealy mouthed response to any questioning of these actions is constant and predictable, 'I condemn
all terrorists,' he doesn't.
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Met with David Ervine (UVF fighter turned politician) on numerous occasions also Ian Paisley (DUP) who according to his widow described Corbyn as a gentleman so he did speak to both sides.
 
Ban-jani said:
My persuasion is that further to the left of centre and so I’m a traditional Labour voter, I cannot bring myself to vote this leadership into power.

He’s a man that defends and befriends racists, is unable or unwilling to tackle a conspiracy theory crisis in his ranks, fails to protect his MP’s (in fact actively chooses not to), has previously sided with terrorist organisations around the UK and is facilitating Brexit (I know this aspect is where we differ).

We really are in the most dire of situations in UK politics.
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Stop believing everything you read in the Daily Mail.....
 
Neville Kneville said:
We'd be in the shit without Brexit, due to the lack of quality.

Brexit has just made it 10 times worse.
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It may have been a misplaced perception of quality due to there being majority governments in place, which probably does lend the impression of competence over the rats fighting in a sack we currently have.
 
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Henkeman said:
It may have been a misplaced perception of quality due to their being majority governments in place, which probably does lend the impression of competence over the rats fighting in a sack we currently have.
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I don't understand, or like the idea of all these people, many of whom can't really fucking stand each other, sitting together in large political parties, mainly to get elected.

I bet there are loads of tories who are closer to some labour MPs, than they are to Reece Mogg & plenty of Labour MPs who are closer to the left of the Tory party, than they are to Corbyn & Momentum.

The Moggs etc should be in some ultra right party with Farage etc & Corbyn's mob should be in some ultra left party with others of their ilk.

Then we should probably have PR, so that nobody can run away with it & equally no (legal) viewpoint is ignored.
 
Neville Kneville said:
I don't understand, or like the idea of all these people, many of whom can't really fucking stand each other, sitting together in large political parties, mainly to get elected.

I bet there are loads of tories who are closer to some labour MPs, than they are to Reece Mogg & plenty of Labour MPs who are closer to the left of the Tory party, than they are to Corbyn & Momentum.

The Moggs etc should be in some ultra right party with Farage etc & Corbyn's mob should be in some ultra left party with others of their ilk.

Then we should probably have PR, so that nobody can run away with it & equally no (legal) viewpoint is ignored.
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Not really, cross party friendships have always been extremely common, and probably more so than within a party. And for perfectly good reason - you're not in direct competition for a job with someone in a different party. You are with people in your own.
 
Henkeman said:
Not really, cross party friendships have always been extremely common, and probably more so than within a party. And for perfectly good reason - you're not in direct competition for a job with someone in a different party. You are with people in your own.
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Maybe, but what has Reece Mogg got in common with the left of the tory party, other than he's in that party ?

They should not all be on the same 'team'.
 
I think generally if you broadly believe in personal responsibility and it’s all about the economy stupid you will be attracted to the Tories, if you prefer to increase the public sector and protect dead heads you will gravitate towards Labour. If you look at society as a whole and try and apply a level of common sense and fairness you are truly fucked.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Maybe, but what has Reece Mogg got in common with the left of the tory party, other than he's in that party ?

They should not all be on the same 'team'.
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You could have said the same about Corbyn in the Blair led Labour Party. It's always been this way. The parties argue internally, come up with a position, and generally stick to it. Generally.
 
hilts said:
I think generally if you broadly believe in personal responsibility and it’s all about the economy stupid you will be attracted to the Tories, if you prefer to increase the public sector and protect dead heads you will gravitate towards Labour. If you look at society as a whole and try and apply a level of common sense and fairness you are truly fucked.
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That is quite a loaded response. The tories have a reputation for being the party of sound economics and pro business but with brexit they are shredding that image and they will hemorrhage voters because of it! They are the party of traditional values but then that makes them a non progressive party. They are also the party that has been and remains closest to the establishment and political influence via big donations so potentially more compromised with special interest groups.

Labour would argue they stand up for those that have the least - what you call dead heads is in reality those that are in care or unable to work due to physical disability alongside those that are looking for work (some dossers accepted).

Voting Labour is my default position but I can't vote for Labour under Corbyn.
 
Henkeman said:
You could have said the same about Corbyn in the Blair led Labour Party. It's always been this way. The parties argue internally, come up with a position, and generally stick to it. Generally.
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In a two party system a career politician will always pick one of the two.
 
Gaudion M said:
That is quite a loaded response. The tories have a reputation for being the party of sound economics and pro business but with brexit they are shredding that image and they will hemorrhage voters because of it! They are the party of traditional values but then that makes them a non progressive party. They are also the party that has been and remains closest to the establishment and political influence via big donations so potentially more compromised with special interest groups.

Labour would argue they stand up for those that have the least - what you call dead heads is in reality those that are in care or unable to work due to physical disability alongside those that are looking for work (some dossers accepted).

Voting Labour is my default position but I can't vote for Labour under Corbyn.
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Two clarifications Brexit is the exception to the general view of each party. The disabled and those in care are not dead heads please don’t make that assumption on my behalf.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Stop believing everything you read in the Daily Mail.....
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This is the problem, with you Corbynites, the fucking patronisation whenever someone criticises the Labour leadership stinks.

The last time I read a Daily Mail article was about 2 years ago and it was one by Martin Samuel on FFPR.

I read the Independent and Guardian mostly but get my news from a wide range of journalists on Twitter.

Now back on topic. Your man Corbyn has repeatedly ignored and even on occasion has seen his closest staff defend a sweeping antisemitism problem in the party: by elected representatives and members. He himself - and McDonnell for that matter - have addressed and acknowledged these issues, as has deputy leader Tom Watson to a greater affect.

He specifically said his office didn’t get involved in antisemitic disciplinary procedures and the whole fucking country has seen his office’s emails interfering to defend racists in the party.

He lied about the laying of the wreath at the terrorists grave, this is proven.

He lied about Brexit, this is obvious.

Your line accusing a long time Labour support of believing the mainstream right wing media and your fellow ideologues insistence on attacking those of us who aren’t in the cult of Corbyn as neoliberals or Tories is exactly why the party is on its arse and only narrowly beating the worst government we’ve ever had.
 
Ban-jani said:
This is the problem, with you Corbynites, the fucking patronisation whenever someone criticises the Labour leadership stinks.

The last time I read a Daily Mail article was about 2 years ago and it was one by Martin Samuel on FFPR.

I read the Independent and Guardian mostly but get my news from a wide range of journalists on Twitter.

Now back on topic. Your man Corbyn has repeatedly ignored and even on occasion has seen his closest staff defend a sweeping antisemitism problem in the party: by elected representatives and members. He himself - and McDonnell for that matter - have addressed and acknowledged these issues, as has deputy leader Tom Watson to a greater affect.

He specifically said his office didn’t get involved in antisemitic disciplinary procedures and the whole fucking country has seen his office’s emails interfering to defend racists in the party.

He lied about the laying of the wreath at the terrorists grave, this is proven.

He lied about Brexit, this is obvious.

Your line accusing a long time Labour support of believing the mainstream right wing media and your fellow ideologues insistence on attacking those of us who aren’t in the cult of Corbyn as neoliberals or Tories is exactly why the party is on its arse and only narrowly beating the worst government we’ve ever had.
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Well said.

Caught lying....

Labour's Richard Burgon says he regrets Zionism remarks https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47952275
 
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