The Labour Party

[Blue and true]

Would you be happy with it being in private ownership if it was non-profit? Ie it’s not the ownership model that bothers you but rather the profit factor.

Why would any individual/entity privately own a rail service with no intention of making a profit?

 

[BrianW]

'Non-profit' organisations often pay ludicrous salaries to their 'executives'. I fail to see how this model is better than public ownership. I think it just plays to the notorious falsehood that 'private' is always more efficient. A curse that has fallen on us this last 40-odd years and why we have rivers full of shite and trains with seats like ironing boards and inadequate legroom for anyone over 5' 6".

 

[metalblue]

Why would any individual/entity privately own a rail service with no intention of making a profit?

A non profit is explicitly used for public or collective good.

Decisions would be commercially made. Any profit generated is ploughed back in to the service not distributed to shareholders.

 

[metalblue]

'Non-profit' organisations often pay ludicrous salaries to their 'executives'. I fail to see how this model is better than public ownership. I think it just plays to the notorious falsehood that 'private' is always more efficient. A curse that has fallen on us this last 40-odd years and why we have rivers full of shite and trains with seats like ironing boards and inadequate legroom for anyone over 5' 6".

You still have to pay people to run the “companies” even if in full public ownership. It then becomes a question of do you want to attract the type of people you want to attract to run them.

However the main problem is structure. Network rails is a publicly owned company that is probably a great example of how not to do it.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Would you be happy with it being in private ownership if it was non-profit? Ie it’s not the ownership model that bothers you but rather the profit factor.

Its more the excessive profit factor.

I see it in my industry then they plead poverty when investing in staff or basic station maintenance.

Our utilities have been fucked by greed over maintaining a standard service.

 

[BTH]

Privatisation has never worked for any industry in this country. Transport, utilities, you name it... have all failed. Provides a one-off payment to the (usually) Tory Government, enriches their friends and families and does the nation no favours whatsoever.

An then, when it inevitably goes wrong, the directors go cap-in-hand for a bail-out from the taxpayer.

Ask yourself why Thames Water are still planning on paying their directors a dividend.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Privatisation has never worked for any industry in this country. Transport, utilities, you name it... have all failed. Provides a one-off payment to the (usually) Tory Government, enriches their friends and families and does the nation no favours whatsoever.

An then, when it inevitably goes wrong, the directors go cap-in-hand for a bail-out from the taxpayer.

Ask yourself why Thames Water are still planning on paying their directors a dividend.

I'm with Iain Hislop when he says Labour should charge these companies with theft of public funds when they are elected.

 

[Blue and true]

A non profit is explicitly used for public or collective good.

Decisions would be commercially made. Any profit generated is ploughed back in to the service not distributed to shareholders.

I understand that but ultimately any investor/business isn't going to want to run an organisation as large as a public rail service without the prospect of making money, why would they? It's not comparable to a charity organisation; running public transport, the costs would be far greater. It's why private ownership of public service is doomed to gradual failure because making profit will be of more importance than the quality of the service itself.

The rail service is a different kettle of fish to commercial flights/ferry. I don't know the exact figures, obviously, but I'd wager ~90% of people that use trains do so to get to work in the morning/return in the evening. Those taxpayers deserve a service that is reliable and cheap, not one that's going to force prohibitive travel cost on them.

It would be interesting to get a poll going on this, because I reckon the vast majority would be happy to see rail nationalised.

 

[metalblue]

Its more the excessive profit factor.

I see it in my industry then they plead poverty when investing in staff or basic station maintenance.

Our utilities have been fucked by greed over maintaining a standard service.

I fully agree with this.

 

[metalblue]

Privatisation has never worked for any industry in this country. Transport, utilities, you name it... have all failed. Provides a one-off payment to the (usually) Tory Government, enriches their friends and families and does the nation no favours whatsoever.

An then, when it inevitably goes wrong, the directors go cap-in-hand for a bail-out from the taxpayer.

Ask yourself why Thames Water are still planning on paying their directors a dividend.

I’d offer BT is an example of where it has worked. Which is probably why the government decided to do the same elsewhere. The issue is certainly one of profit motive and investor returns - captive markets are rarely conducive to value for customers.