The Labour Party

[Ban-jani]

Johnson does need it too, but he isn't going to call a GE he expects to lose.

I've honestly no clue how this is all going to pan out (and who was it who said "anyone who does, hasn't been following it closely enough).

But at the moment, I've no idea whether Johnson is going to return with a deal from the EU or not. He just might. And if he does, and he has the DUP support for it, what will the ERG do? They'd surely like a clean break and would not be keen on a deal which ties us loosely to the EU. But on the other hand, they don't want a Corbyn government and Brexit cancelled either, so they may support it, as Rees Mogg did with the last of May's attempts.

And would any Labour MPs support it, rather than risk a GE that Johnson might win and an ensuing No Deal?

And let's suppose Johnson does pull off a miracle, gets a deal with the EU, gets it through Parliament and then we leave on October 31st. Hero!??? Well not according to the Brexit party I would imagine. So then we have a GE, and what do they do?

I think Johnson is more likely to win a GE if he gets a deal through as he’ll secure a lot of moderates on the centre right and he can make up with the MP’s he chucked out.

I really don’t think parliament will let him force through no deal and I think once the October 31st date is gone, Labour have a real chance at a GE. If Johnson gets a deal through, he’ll be a hero as you say.

Once the deal is through the Brexit Party are redundant.

My guess is a tightly contested hung parliament after a GE, following no deal being ruled out by this current parliament. If the Tories win then fuck knows we’re around in circles.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I think Johnson is more likely to win a GE if he gets a deal through as he’ll secure a lot of moderates on the centre right and he can make up with the MP’s he chucked out.

I really don’t think parliament will let him force through no deal and I think once the October 31st date is gone, Labour have a real chance at a GE. If Johnson gets a deal through, he’ll be a hero as you say.

Once the deal is through the Brexit Party are redundant.

My guess is a tightly contested hung parliament after a GE, following no deal being ruled out by this current parliament. If the Tories win then fuck knows we’re around in circles.

If the Tories win, I'm guessing enough rebels will have to tow the line on the basis of there being a renewed mandate from the public. But it really depends on the numbers.

The public are fickle and memories are short. Johnson's been out-manoeuvred of late and his stock is way down. But who knows what the climate might be like in January. For some unfathomable reason, he seems to be intrinsically quite popular with the public. Corbyn obviously is not, outside his core support groups. So I don't at all rule out a Tory majority, or even a big Tory majority.

The Labour party has one enormous failing which Corbyn et al just can't get their heads around: The UK public are not very left wing. In fact they are barely left leaning at all, let alone in favour of the sort of harder left politics Corbyn represents. Red Ed lost because he was too left wing. Corbyn is further left. He did much better than expected in the last GE because he ran a great campaign and May was completely and utterly fucking useless. And he still finished what, 50 seats behind? It's quite possible he'll do worse than that next time. I might even say it's likely when you look at his approval rating then vs now and how its plummeted. The question is what happens to the Brexit Parties votes. If they go to the Tories, then the Tories would win with a quite big majority IMO.

 

[Rascal]

I personally am in favour of scrapping fees, I think education should be free and money should never be a barrier to it.

The issue I have however is people misunderstand what universities exist for. They do not exist to educate people, they exist to be a money making machine. Education is an after thought in these institutions.

They are more interested in where the funding and grant money is coming from and also how they can sell research projects commercially.

Universities could opt to reduce fees according to how much a course should cost but instead they charge the absolute maximum just because they can.

In 2017, Manchester University ran a surplus of £35m AFTER reinvestment of profits and has £450m in cash reserves. So why can it afford to pay staff £400k+ a year but not make an effort to reduce tuition fees?

That's a fair point.

Universities ideally would be an equal mixture of both learning and research, both are of equal importance.

 

[Ban-jani]

I thought you would appreciate that investment takes time to reap rewards. As a capitalist surely you must support that approach, its just the same as investing in anything else.

And yes I do think its right that society pays for people to go to University, I don't use the M4 but I have helped pay for it. Its what society does.

I think society should for a number of subjects but I don’t think we should give people the option of getting pissed for 3 years whilst getting a 2:2 in events management, at the taxpayers expense.

I think there should be core subjects that are free though for definite.

 

[Rascal]

I think society should for a number of subjects but I don’t think we should give people the option of getting pissed for 3 years whilst getting a 2:2 in events management, at the taxpayers expense.

I think there should be core subjects that are free though for definite.

The current PM got a second class degree in Classics and didn't pay a penny.

I would suggest a 2;2 in events management shows more competence than being to able to misquote the Illiad

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Johnson does need it too, but he isn't going to call a GE he expects to lose.

I've honestly no clue how this is all going to pan out (and who was it who said "anyone who does, hasn't been following it closely enough).

But at the moment, I've no idea whether Johnson is going to return with a deal from the EU or not. He just might. And if he does, and he has the DUP support for it, what will the ERG do? They'd surely like a clean break and would not be keen on a deal which ties us loosely to the EU. But on the other hand, they don't want a Corbyn government and Brexit cancelled either, so they may support it, as Rees Mogg did with the last of May's attempts.

And would any Labour MPs support it, rather than risk a GE that Johnson might win and an ensuing No Deal?

And let's suppose Johnson does pull off a miracle, gets a deal with the EU, gets it through Parliament and then we leave on October 31st. Hero!??? Well not according to the Brexit party I would imagine. So then we have a GE, and what do they do?

There is an element of the ERG (maybe 20-30 of them) and the whole of the BXP that want nothing short of a no deal exit and only thinking about what next once they get there.
They will never support a deal of any kind. For that reason I very much doubt that BoJo will get anything through the HoC. Same issue May had. Brexit can take many forms and none are roundly popular even among brexiteers

I think Johnson is more likely to win a GE if he gets a deal through as he’ll secure a lot of moderates on the centre right and he can make up with the MP’s he chucked out.

I really don’t think parliament will let him force through no deal and I think once the October 31st date is gone, Labour have a real chance at a GE. If Johnson gets a deal through, he’ll be a hero as you say.

Once the deal is through the Brexit Party are redundant.

My guess is a tightly contested hung parliament after a GE, following no deal being ruled out by this current parliament. If the Tories win then fuck knows we’re around in circles.

I think BoJo will do badly in a GE. Especially if he fights the BXP on one hand and the moderates with the other. Farage wants a clear run at 80 seats. They will be the ones that BoJo needs to make up for what we all know he is going to lose. Hung Parliament with no overall majority for anything is what I reckon will happen in a GE.

 

[Ban-jani]

If the Tories win, I'm guessing enough rebels will have to tow the line on the basis of there being a renewed mandate from the public. But it really depends on the numbers.

The public are fickle and memories are short. Johnson's been out-manoeuvred of late and his stock is way down. But who knows what the climate might be like in January. For some unfathomable reason, he seems to be intrinsically quite popular with the public. Corbyn obviously is not, outside his core support groups. So I don't at all rule out a Tory majority, or even a big Tory majority.

The Labour party has one enormous failing which Corbyn et al just can't get their heads around: The UK public are not very left wing. In fact they are barely left leaning at all, let alone in favour of the sort of harder left politics Corbyn represents. Red Ed lost because he was too left wing. Corbyn is further left. He did much better than expected in the last GE because he ran a great campaign and May was completely and utterly fucking useless. And he still finished what, 50 seats behind? It's quite possible he'll do worse than that next time. I might even say it's likely when you look at his approval rating then vs now and how its plummeted. The question is what happens to the Brexit Parties votes. If they go to the Tories, then the Tories would win with a quite big majority IMO.

I think the liking of Boris comes down to sheer apathy towards politicians and many of the public see them generally as boring cunts.

That and the media. I genuinely believe that because the Daily Mail and the Sun are right wing and by far the most read by the masses, they can influence opinion and whilst people are perfectly entitled to criticise Corbyn’s politics, to say these publications are accurate and fair with such assessment would be disingenuous.

I’m not saying it’s all the media and I agree that England specifically isn’t socialist generally but it definitely influences it.

Fuck knows what will happen at the next GE, I genuinely think we have a small chance of another party other than the big two getting in, for the first time for a century.

 

[Ban-jani]

The current PM got a second class degree in Classics and didn't pay a penny.

I would suggest a 2;2 in events management shows more competence than being to able to misquote the Illiad

I don’t disagree and I agree with free tuition but just a sensible approach, as opposed to a blanket policy.

If a blanket policy is a must then I’d back free tuition, the cost is worth it considering our skills shortages.

We must must must invest in technology courses too.

 

[LeeJay]

So you will decide who you vote for on who can deliver Brexit even if the man is a narcissistic liar. That is fair enough.

I would prefer somebody who was honest and makes mistakes whilst adding up but supports a list of policies that help the working class.

Each to their own mate

Not sure i follow you there....

You see i wouldn't vote for Boris, he's lied and he's contradicted himself on the same topic - depending on which group of folks he's addressing.... But i wouldn't vote for Corbyn either because i don't think he can be trusted. i think that was the point i was making.

Labour can put forward as many moral / worthwhile policies as they like, and that list has loads, but will they deliver them? When you look at Diane Abbot and Thornberry, they're certainly not passionate, there's an emptiness there and i wouldn't trust Abbot to answer a telephone call and direct it to the right person let alone broker a deal in Brussels. It's the same for Corbyn, none of them inspire confidence. i don't think Boris inspires confidence either, but at least he wants Brexit.

But, what's the alternative? Farage lol. He's probably the lowest of the lot. Rock and a hard place, eh?

i really don't know what became of the labour party, how it became so disjointed and lost, oc Blair f***** it and us over, Milliband was a muppet, i think Corbyn and his minions on the bench either side of him don't do the party any favours, perhaps that was the point i was trying to make - if he / they could be trusted to deliver the pledges they put forward, then we'd have a very real and workable solution to Gvt, but as i say, they don't inspire confidence.

EDIT to add: as far as the man for the job comment goes - i think it's important that someone who campaigned for Brexit is in charge of taking us out, that's all. And of 'those who ran' he seemed to be the best prospect of that. i think other candidates would have been better suited to PM. But he was kinda the 'head' of the Brexit campaign, May (a remainer) was never going to deliver Brexit because her heart and her desire wasn't ever in it.

 

[inbetween]

I don’t disagree and I agree with free tuition but just a sensible approach, as opposed to a blanket policy.

If a blanket policy is a must then I’d back free tuition, the cost is worth it considering our skills shortages.

We must must must invest in technology courses too.

For skills we need to look deeper than just the fact that tuition fees exist. The be all and end all of skills isn't just whether you go to university.

Schools at the moment are on their arse and that is a bigger problem.

A national youth career service would also really help, I remember we used to have a Connexions rep who used to sit and talk career options with us. No doubt that has gone.

Any party advocating free fees is really just sweating over their student vote given university students are the youngest age group that can vote.

 

[Ban-jani]

For skills we need to look deeper than just the fact that tuition fees exist. The be all and end all of skills isn't just whether you go to university.

Schools at the moment are on their arse and that is a bigger problem.

A national youth career service would also really help, I remember we used to have a Connexions rep who used to sit and talk career options with us. No doubt that has gone.

Any party advocating free fees is really just sweating over their student vote given university students are the youngest age group that can vote.

We definitely need to look deeper and the company I work for are in the process of ideas of offering something.

That said, free tuition fees are just fair for students and will only encourage more to aim higher.

 

[hilts]

Some prospective Labour Party policies for the upcoming election. These may be subject to change at conference

scrap hospital parking charges
Abolish zero hours contracts
End academies and free schools
1/3 of board seats for workers
lift ban on onshore wind farms
overhaul gambling regulations
Orgreave inquiry
overhaul the BBC
SAFE STANDING at football grounds
Halt NHS privatisation
Additional health visits for babies
Nationalise the national grid
Restore Nursing bursary
Extend £10 p/h to 16+ yr olds
Extend FOI to private sector
New National care service
New NATIONAL EDUCATION SERVICE
Halt arms sales to Saudi Arabia
Recognise Palestine
New rogue landlord register
Raise corporation tax to 26%
Extend free to air sports events
Overseas loan transparency act
Move part of the treasury to the North
Armed forces pledge#
Register of beneficial ownership
Interest free loans to homeowners
£5 Billion Robin Hood tax on finance
Extend abortion rights to NI
New green tech deal for the north
Abolish in work poverty
Leaseholder rights revolution
Mandatory alcohol labelling
Declare climate emergency
Nationalise rail
500.000 new council homes
NHS safe staffing ;aw
20 point workers rights deal
Childhood obesity strategy
Switch business tax to CPI
End Post Office closures
£30 pw for ESA recipients
End sure start closures
Zero emissions by 2050
400,000 green tech jobs
£8bn for social care
160,000 more home helps
Right to an infinite tenancy
£1bn for new bus routes
Free bus travel for under 25s
Not for profit buses in England
£250m Childrens health fund
£6bn extra for the NHS
Scrap WCA
1 year maternity leave
3.000 more firemen
All class sizes under 30
£3bn Mersey tidal project
War powers Act
Transgender rights
Well being Act
Ban on new Grammars
Repeal Tory NHS Act HURRAH!
£1bn Culture
2nd home tax
Ban fracking
£8bn for new schools
Restore legal aid
Renationalise Royal Mail
End badger cull
Free school meals
Restore EMA
Votes for 16 year olds
Scrap SATS
Clean Air act
Private Rent Cap
4 new public holidays
Leveson 2
Refore outsourcing
Repeal Vagrancy act
£ibn Oligarch levy
Gender pay gap act
Repeal Lobbying Act
Scrap Bedroom Tax
£3Bn pa for Education
£500 extra pa for carers
Scrap tuition fees
Crossrail for the north
New National Investment Bank
2% of GDP for defence
5% of Premier league cash for grassroots
£20bn investment bank for Scotland
Like for like replacement for Trident …..BOOOO
A new Post Office Bank
50p tax on those on over £123K
Levy on those on over £350k
Maintenance grants for students
Double apprenticeships
45p rate for £80k to £123K
Create Minister for mental Health
Violence against women commission
New Brighton mainline
Reverse capital gain tax cut
20% on private health insurance
5 year tax freeze for those on less than £80k
£100M for cold weather rough sleepers
High Street wi-fi
8,000 new homes for rough sleepers
Equal rights for gig economy workers
Free childcare for low income families
Reverse £1bn inheritance tax cut
Break up big 4 accountancy firms
Create Social justice commission
Nationalise Steel, Water , Energy and probation




Marxist cunts

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Good reply, the whole point of pledges such as these is to start a conversation into the why and when's etc. No manifesto appeals to everyone as no party appeals to everyone so you use your judgement as to does the good outweigh the bad and indifferent.

Overall I think you are quite positive, as I expect most people would be as its fairly radical without being extreme and its well balanced

I will put you down a Yes :))

A LOT of convincing to do yet, hence the swathes of orange.

 

[inbetween]

We definitely need to look deeper and the company I work for are in the process of ideas of offering something.

That said, free tuition fees are just fair for students and will only encourage more to aim higher.

Generally speaking I don't think tuition fees are a barrier to aiming high. When I started university at 21 I never thought oh I can't afford this. I know no-one who didn't goto university because they couldn't afford to.

I currently pay £120 a month to paying off my fees so making them free would make me £120 a month better off, that's it.

What we need to consider is the effect of making fees free which is will it affect quality and who is going to pay for it?

 

[Ban-jani]

Generally speaking I don't think tuition fees are a barrier to aiming high. When I started university at 21 I never thought oh I can't afford this. I know no-one who didn't goto university because they couldn't afford to.

I currently pay £120 a month to paying off my fees so making them free would make me £120 a month better off, that's it.

What we need to consider is the effect of making fees free which is will it affect quality and who is going to pay for it?

I specifically didn’t go because of it.

I had a job offer and thought about the difference with having money in my pocket at the age of 16 or continuing to university and putting myself in debt and consciously chose to work.

It worked out pretty well in the end but I’m guessing there will be many others who have lost out.

I do happen to agree with need to think more outside of the box and offer courses and training outside of the traditional university parameters.

Technology is snowballing currently and we’re relying on immigrants to fill our needs as a society. Not that I have anything against immigration, it’s a good thing, we just shouldn’t rely on it.

 

[cibaman]

I think the liking of Boris comes down to sheer apathy towards politicians and many of the public see them generally as boring cunts.

That and the media. I genuinely believe that because the Daily Mail and the Sun are right wing and by far the most read by the masses, they can influence opinion and whilst people are perfectly entitled to criticise Corbyn’s politics, to say these publications are accurate and fair with such assessment would be disingenuous.

I’m not saying it’s all the media and I agree that England specifically isn’t socialist generally but it definitely influences it.

Fuck knows what will happen at the next GE, I genuinely think we have a small chance of another party other than the big two getting in, for the first time for a century.

I’m not sure how the Lib Dem’s could get in. 43% of voters are leavers so they’re only targeting just over half of the electorate. I know that there are actually some Lib Dem’s who are also leavers, just as there are some Remainers who vote BXP, but I can’t believe there are that many.

And then there is the Lib Dem’s age old problem, their vote is too spread out. They don’t have the concentrated area of support enjoyed by Labour and the tories. They would do exceptionally well to break through the 100 seat mark.

And I would be surprised if the BXP won more than a dozen seats even in their best case scenario. 12.6% of the vote, 3.9m votes, got UKIP 1 seat in 2015

 

[Ban-jani]

I’m not sure how the Lib Dem’s could get in. 43% of voters are leavers so they’re only targeting just over half of the electorate. I know that there are actually some Lib Dem’s who are also leavers, just as there are some Remainers who vote BXP, but I can’t believe there are that many.

And then there is the Lib Dem’s age old problem, their vote is too spread out. They don’t have the concentrated area of support enjoyed by Labour and the tories. They would do exceptionally well to break through the 100 seat mark.

And I would be surprised if the BXP won more than a dozen seats even in their best case scenario. 12.6% of the vote, 3.9m votes, got them 1 seat in 2015

I don’t think they will get in but this is the first time in decades and decades, possibly over a century, where one of the big two may have a small chance.

 

[inbetween]

I specifically didn’t go because of it.

I had a job offer and thought about the difference with having money in my pocket at the age of 16 or continuing to university and putting myself in debt and consciously chose to work.

It worked out pretty well in the end but I’m guessing there will be many others who have lost out.

I do happen to agree with need to think more outside of the box and offer courses and training outside of the traditional university parameters.

Technology is snowballing currently and we’re relying on immigrants to fill our needs as a society. Not that I have anything against immigration, it’s a good thing, we just shouldn’t rely on it.

Had the fees been free, would you of turned down your job offer and gone to university instead? Why would a debt matter if you don't have to pay for it until you are earning a lot? I paid £20 a month in my first job but having the degree led to the next better job etc.

I agree on the immigration side but that will never change because regardless of skills, industry still needs to create the jobs and opportunities and so demand always changes. The graduate market is excessively saturated but at the experienced end companies are short of people.

In today's climate you must surely agree that Corbyn could be a threat to job creation?

Companies create opportunities for training and new jobs through profit. If you make less profit because of high taxes then will training spending and new jobs etc increase or decrease?

 

[bluethrunthru]

In today's climate you must surely agree that Corbyn could be a threat to job creation?

Companies create opportunities for training and new jobs through profit. If you make less profit because of high taxes then will training spending and new jobs etc increase or decrease?

ONS figures - Q1 2019 - manufacturing industry average profit 12.2% services 19%
HR News March 2019 - 1/3rd of UK businesses offer no staff training.

http://hrnews.co.uk/a-third-of-uk-businesses-offer-no-employee-training-or-development-time/

Its not about taxes its about having the will. Too many British businesses reward poorly performing management teams and think its up to somebody else such as the state to provide them with well educated well trained staff. It goes a long way to explaining the productivity conundrum in the UK.

 

[Ban-jani]

Had the fees been free, would you of turned down your job offer and gone to university instead? Why would a debt matter if you don't have to pay for it until you are earning a lot? I paid £20 a month in my first job but having the degree led to the next better job etc.

I agree on the immigration side but that will never change because regardless of skills, industry still needs to create the jobs and opportunities and so demand always changes. The graduate market is excessively saturated but at the experienced end companies are short of people.

In today's climate you must surely agree that Corbyn could be a threat to job creation?

Companies create opportunities for training and new jobs through profit. If you make less profit because of high taxes then will training spending and new jobs etc increase or decrease?

I probably would have gone to university in all honesty but it’s a very difficult decision as a 16 year old and we shouldn’t be stopping them at all, or doing anything that may stop them.

This wouldn’t be for all subjects by the way. We’d need to define core subjects that are free and those less important where you have to pay.

I completely agree that the graduate market is saturated and the higher end or more technical side is lacking. We oversaw a graduate programme for our large financial services client and had no problem delivering 15 grads per day into assessments for them, for 7 consecutive working days. But then software developers have a free run at any role they want because there are too few.

Well we’re in a period where there are plenty of jobs out, sometimes more than there are candidates but not enough skilled workers. If Corbyn’s policies use the money to invest in talent then that will be highly beneficial. I agree some companies will reduce the amount of vacancies if profits go down but, and I say this as a recruiter, there’s more to life than making a huge profit and this is about changing our society to suit everyone, not just those who have the gift of making money.

Do you not get home after working your arse off all week, with your employer pushing and pushing for increase after increase and think what are we doing as mammals?