The Labour Party

Chippy_boy said:
Rascal won't be interested in any of that mate. When socialism fails, it's always for some other reason - you know the rules.
Click to expand...

The idea of socialism doesn't feel me with dread as there are some models out there specifically in Scandinavia where it seems to work very well for the general populous although not being at all an expert in their systems I understand it's not a socialist system in the conventional way we think about it. I do think we should try and protect the vulnerable in society and try and foster a sense of community whenever possible but the problem is soon as these socialist governments come into power the lines are redrawn and the pot is raided quickly which always leads to a massive attack on their sovereign bonds and so the free fall begins into chaos.
 
hilts said:
Making state schools as good as or better than Eton is anything but simple I would say near impossible.

I always see the left side of the Labour Party as pamphlet politicians. On paper it looks fair and just but harsh reality kills it. The right of the Tory party basically don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.

There is no common ground between you and say Chippy. If Labour can't get in next time with the shit that has been going on for the last 10 years I think they will need a rethink.
Click to expand...

I have said previously, we look at education as a provision, we should look at it as an investment. It would have the same rewards as any capital spending. We just have a wrong headed approach.

The better educated the kids are, the better educated the workforce will be, so that investment will long term reap rewards in productivity and GDP growth.
 
AlgarveBlu said:
The idea of socialism doesn't feel me with dread as there are some models out there specifically in Scandinavia where it seems to work very well for the general populous although not being at all an expert in their systems I understand it's not a socialist system in the conventional way we think about it. I do think we should try and protect the vulnerable in society and try and foster a sense of community whenever possible but the problem is soon as these socialist governments come into power the lines are redrawn and the pot is raided quickly which always leads to a massive attack on their sovereign bonds and so the free fall begins into chaos.
Click to expand...

Hello Mr Algarve, Paderne has a Communist councillor, I love Paderne
 
cibaman said:
Yes, and I could see it working in the first couple of years of a five year parliament. But it’s just not sensible when labour will be writing its manifesto in a few weeks time.

If conference votes for a 60% tax rate and the manifesto waters that down to 40%, the potential Labour voters who were put off by the 60% rate are not going to be reassured. They’re going to think that Labour’s aspiration is for a 60% rate. If not this year then next. They’ll think the manifesto is a con, labour telling porkies. And the members who voted for 60% will also be pissed off because party policy is supposed to be driven by the membership and they’ve just been overruled.
Click to expand...

My point was mate, that you settle for 50% because you have implanted the idea in the minds of the electorate it becomes normalised. That is how the theory behind the Overton window works. You have to find degrees of acceptability for it to become policy.
 
Education enriches people's understanding of themselves and world. It improves the quality of their lives and leads to broad social benefits to individuals and society.
Education raises people's productivity and creativity and promotes entrepreneurship and technological advances.

The more advanced, well funded and freelly avaialable education creates a better society

Restricting it to a system of good educaton for some and excellent education for a select few is only to the detrement of a nation.
 
Rascal said:
I have said previously, we look at education as a provision, we should look at it as an investment. It would have the same rewards as any capital spending. We just have a wrong headed approach.

The better educated the kids are, the better educated the workforce will be, so that investment will long term reap rewards in productivity and GDP growth.
Click to expand...

So lump more money into education, teaching and schools and their facilities but leave private education alone because not only do the parents who pay for their kids to go there pay into the state system, they take a huge burden off it whilst ensuring their kids get the best they possibly can.

Over 600,000 kids in private education. Who pays for all of those when Labour takes their schools away? You think all those teachers will suddenly accept government terms and conditions? Not a chance so who teaches them?

Not enough money in education so lets drag a further 600,000 kids into it. Its brainless policy it really is.
 
So loooks like a strictly remain mandate is going to be rejected.

But I keep hearing that the leadership and membership are at odds over brexit as 99% or members are pro remain, or so it is peddled by the media.
 
AlgarveBlu said:
Think you've been spending far too much time in Nelia's bar supping Sagres with the other reds in there :-)

Not sure how much time you spend here but you may have noticed that it is one constant procession of strikes in most sectors and the schools are so understaffed so are the hospitals and I have to pay around 49 cents in the Euro for that privilege. We have no choice but to send our kids to the international school here as the teachers are on strike every other week. Different country I know but this has been driven by a socialist government propped up by the communist party. Seriously thinking of leaving if this continues as it is demoralising paying so much tax for shit services - shame as it's a beautiful country...
Click to expand...

My mate lives in Cerro uro, we go in Bar Sangria and Bar Cuelho mostly. But I did watch a game in Paderne when we beat Chelsea 6-0, my mate is a Chelsea fan. I am over again in November for a couple of days. Getting the train from Lisbon. So I don't live there, but I have been over 4 times this year. I love the people and the place. My mate loves it, he has no complaints although the last petrol strike left him a bit short. My pal is very left wing though, makes me look like a Tory :))
 
urban genie said:
So loooks like a strictly remain mandate is going to be rejected.

But I keep hearing that the leadership and membership are at odds over brexit as 99% or members are pro remain, or so it is peddled by the media.
Click to expand...

It may well be but remain Labour are.

A choice has been made to cozy up to London metropolitan elite and the expense of traditional labour leave voters in the heartlands as they hope they will just do what they always do and vote labour irrespective.

My guess is they are in for a shock and those labour voters will look elsewhere.
 
Don't really mind it as a policy TBH. If they position it as meaning every kid has the same opportunities in life, might be a nice vote winner for people who consider themselves working class and want to fuck over the posh boys.

I think anonymising uni applications or something similar whereby you get on the best courses through merit rather than privelege might be better tho.
 
blueinsa said:
So lump more money into education, teaching and schools and their facilities but leave private education alone because not only do the parents who pay for their kids to go there pay into the state system, they take a huge burden off it whilst ensuring their kids get the best they possibly can.

Over 600,000 kids in private education. Who pays for all of those when Labour takes their schools away? You think all those teachers will suddenly accept government terms and conditions? Not a chance so who teaches them?

Not enough money in education so lets drag a further 600,000 kids into it. Its brainless policy it really is.
Click to expand...

You are looking at it as provision, rather than investment.

We can spend $2 billion on HS2 which is investment, that increases productivity and will I am sure add to growth

Invest $2 billion in Education and the same thing happens only on a much grander and more enlightening scale.

Think Investment.
 
Some cracking speeches at conference.

A genuine debate going on, this is what a real political party looks like, not some false construct, not just a room of nodding dogs, not a cult, but real people talking about real issues.
 
Rascal said:
My point was mate, that you settle for 50% because you have implanted the idea in the minds of the electorate it becomes normalised. That is how the theory behind the Overton window works. You have to find degrees of acceptability for it to become policy.
Click to expand...
There isn’t sufficient time for it to be normalised between the current conference and the election. Every policy that is voted for this week that doesn’t make it unchanged into the manifesto will be thrown back at Labour during the campaign as “Labour’s real manifesto”
 
Chippy_boy said:
Driven by bitterness, resentment and envy. Nothing whatsoever to do with wanting to improve the educational standards of state-school educated kids. Zero.
Click to expand...

It will harm them as class sizes of 40 plus already are swelled by over 600,000 kids who will also needs classrooms, books, and teachers.

World class teaching talent that we will lose to the rest of the world because of it.

I lived and worked in South Africa and trust me, this lot in charge of Labour are like the ANC. Everything is a certain demographics fault and everything they have has to be taken from them.

It doesnt work there and it wont work here.

Its pie in the sky and it wont get them into power thank fuck so we can look back at it and laugh.
 
cibaman said:
There isn’t sufficient time for it to be normalised between the current conference and the election. Every policy that is voted for this week that doesn’t make it unchanged into the manifesto will be thrown back at Labour during the campaign as “Labour’s real manifesto”
Click to expand...

That is a value judgement for the leadership, but the point is more long term. Next conference the 50% has been normalised in peoples minds, it is accepted, so push it further and go to 48%. Its small amounts of incremental change that lead eventually to the desired outcome.
 
Rascal said:
You are looking at it as provision, rather than investment.

We can spend $2 billion on HS2 which is investment, that increases productivity and will I am sure add to growth

Invest $2 billion in Education and the same thing happens only on a much grander and more enlightening scale.

Think Investment.
Click to expand...

600,000 kids at £6k per pupil per year.

£3.6 Billion needed immediately to pay for their education in a system stretched, under funded and no teachers.

By all means promise money to better what those in the state system have. bring class room sizes down, better facilities, schools, improve teachers pay and training etc as that will improve education but dragging people down a level simply will not.

Invest yes!
 
blueinsa said:
It will harm them as class sizes of 40 plus already are swelled by over 600,000 kids who will also needs classrooms, books, and teachers.

World class teaching talent that we will lose to the rest of the world because of it.

I lived and worked in South Africa and trust me, this lot in charge of Labour are like the ANC. Everything is a certain demographics fault and everything they have has to be taken from them.

It doesnt work there and it wont work here.

Its pie in the sky and it wont get them into power thank fuck so we can look back at it and laugh.
Click to expand...

haven't the ANC been in power since the 90s?
 
The perfect fumble said:
Some cracking speeches at conference.

A genuine debate going on, this is what a real political party looks like, not some false construct, not just a room of nodding dogs, not a cult, but real people talking about real issues.
Click to expand...

It is what democracy should look like, whether you agree with the policies or not. The Tory party conference is totally different as that is a stage for set piece speeches and pretty much always has been as far back as I can remember.
 
joe123 said:
haven't the ANC been in power since the 90s?
Click to expand...

94 yes and its a shit hole politically.

About to go full Zimbabwe and take land from the white farmers who feed the country.

What can possibly go wrong?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top