The Labour Party

[Prestwich_Blue]

Humour is the only way to cover that shameful smear, and there were many, many others. Truth is you know the Labour Party isn't anti-Semitic, because establishment Jewish voices trashed it day in day out, without a care in the world for the consequences, because they knew, as you know, there wouldn't be any.

It wasn't a smear though, as that report (commissioned by Formby) made clear.

Your position all along has been that it was an anti-Corbyn smear that there was antisemitism IN the party. Well a report commissioned by the General Secretary of that party is clearly saying there WAS a problem and it wasn't a smear or witch-hunt.

 

[Gray]

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer is urging the government to publish an exit strategy from the coronavirus lockdown this week.

It is a lot easier to say what should be done when you are in opposition, thank God Labour did not win the election.

 

[Paulpowersleftfoot]

It wasn't a smear though, as that report (commissioned by Formby) made clear.

Your position all along has been that it was an anti-Corbyn smear that there was antisemitism IN the party. Well a report commissioned by the General Secretary of that party is clearly saying there WAS a problem and it wasn't a smear or witch-hunt.

None so blind

 

[The perfect fumble]

That it wasn't a problem when he wasn't the leader? Let's suppose you take in a stray dog and a few days later you're itching from fleas, when you've never had a problem before. I think it's be pretty easy to guess where the problem came from.

Laughable.

There was a backlog of complaints gathering dust when he was elected, nobody seemed to mind, notwithstanding what we know about the "smear the Trot" campaign orchestrated by Blairite paid staffers, the report notes that Corbyn put in place mechanisms for dealing with complaints which was far better than he inherited. Hardly the behaviour of world number one anti-Semite! (Come on, you're not an idiot, not too deep down you know that was ridiculous).

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

It wasn't a smear though, as that report (commissioned by Formby) made clear.

Your position all along has been that it was an anti-Corbyn smear that there was antisemitism IN the party. Well a report commissioned by the General Secretary of that party is clearly saying there WAS a problem and it wasn't a smear or witch-hunt.

The report is clear and makes no bones of the issue of antisemitism within the party and the ineffectual way it was (wasn't) dealt with. It also highlights the way the issue was hijacked and manipulated by political opponents of Corbyn for their own ends. I regard this as extremely dangerous - taking an issue that should be a clear right vs wrong one in the mind of any decent human and politicising it as a tool in the right v left fight within labour. It risks creating division on an issue where we should all be united and creating a divide where extremism can flourish. This is as shameful as the antisemitism itself and those involve should be expelled from politics at the same time as the antisemites.

 

[The perfect fumble]

It wasn't a smear though, as that report (commissioned by Formby) made clear.

Your position all along has been that it was an anti-Corbyn smear that there was antisemitism IN the party. Well a report commissioned by the General Secretary of that party is clearly saying there WAS a problem and it wasn't a smear or witch-hunt.

Of course Formby will say that, a quick Google will show you the terrible smear job directed at her by establishment Jewish voices, aided and abetted by the right wing press, do it, it's worse than even I imagined.

Besides, you don't get to pick and choose what you highlight, it's noticeable you make no mention of the smear the Trot campaign, which is the real big reveal here.

Truth be told, the Jewish community has lost friends here, maybe you don't care, you don't seem to, in fact your relaxed position gives truth to the lie that the Party is anti-Semitic and you know it.

 

[Ban-jani]

It is significant, but totally irrelevant, Labour was forever trumpeting how its membership
was rising, eventually to becoming the largest of any party in Europe,Tory membership is small
in comparison. That 500,000 made no difference at all in an election where Corbyn and his acolytes
got totally snotted.
A newly polished Galloway version of it would go exactly the same way, he's done it before, was it the 'Respect' party or something? They went nowhere.

It’s not that significant to Labour I know, I mean it’s significant to Momentum and their lot, as well as Galloway’s vanity project.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Truth be told, the Jewish community has lost friends here, maybe you don't care, you don't seem to, in fact your relaxed position gives truth to the lie that the Party is anti-Semitic and you know it.

Truth be told, we don't need "friends" like you, who blame the victims of racism for taking issue with that racism.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Truth be told, we don't need "friends" like you, who blame the victims of racism for taking issue with that racism.

Low, very low. You do this all the time when you're losing the argument. No one is saying that there isn't anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, but you believe it is of the party, that's clear to see, the Jewish financier cabal bollocks, wrapped up with Zionist conspiracy nonsense. The numbers of people who believe that crap is screamingly small, but please go ahead, milk it for all its worth.

But milk it is what you're doing.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Not easy for Starmer to sound relevant in this current climate. He has to strike a balance between being critical and questioning the government's decisions where necessary and also being supportive. Pretty difficult task.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Low, very low. You do this all the time when you're losing the argument. No one is saying that there isn't anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, but you believe it is of the party, that's clear to see, the Jewish financier cabal bollocks, wrapped up with Zionist conspiracy nonsense. The numbers of people who believe that crap is screamingly small, but please go ahead, milk it for all its worth.

But milk it is what you're doing.

I never claimed the NEC suddenly all voted to adopt an antisemitic stance as part of Labour party policy. But it's quite clear to anyone but the brainwashed that Corbyn's consistent adoption of policies and beliefs pushed him over the line into antisemitism. His election as leader effectively encouraged and emboldened those who shared his views and even more extreme ones. He and two successive General Secretaries, in their various ways and for differing reasons, failed to put the lid on these people, the ones spouting the Zionist/Rothschild, Soros and other Jewish financiers/New World Order cabals and conspiracies.

The best construct you can put on this is that is was an abject failure of process, which put proving a point intenrally above dealing firmly with the problem. The least attractive construct is that it was an institutional failure of an anti-racist party to tackle clear and obvious racism in its ranks.

 

[Ban-jani]

Low, very low. You do this all the time when you're losing the argument. No one is saying that there isn't anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, but you believe it is of the party, that's clear to see, the Jewish financier cabal bollocks, wrapped up with Zionist conspiracy nonsense. The numbers of people who believe that crap is screamingly small, but please go ahead, milk it for all its worth.

But milk it is what you're doing.

I’ve seen some posts on this forum that, let’s just say, are morally not quite there but this is right up there with the worst.

Even when you’re waving your report around like Neville fucking Chamberlain, at how it seemingly proves Blairite meddling and the weaponising of internal racism to attack Corbyn, you’re ignoring the fact it also clearly confirms the racism was there in the first place.

You’ll take the first aspect as gospel and are continuously using it to attack the centre in Labour but you’re still continuing to say the racism isn’t really institutionalised and it’s a smear that’s being milked by the victims (imagine actually anyone saying that), despite the report stating both the racism was widespread and a serious issue and the Blairites used it to make Corbyn look worse.

You cannot have one without the other but here you are only using one aspect of the report to further your political agenda.

It really is no wonder the vast majority of the British public look at your corner of politics with total disdain.

 

[Ban-jani]

Not easy for Starmer to sound relevant in this current climate. He has to strike a balance between being critical and questioning the government's decisions where necessary and also being supportive. Pretty difficult task.

So far so good for me.

He’s offered help, been respectful when Johnson was admitted to hospital and is asking important questions.

It’s nice to have someone sensible in front line politics for once.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I never claimed the NEC suddenly all voted to adopt an antisemitic stance as part of Labour party policy. But it's quite clear to anyone but the brainwashed that Corbyn's consistent adoption of policies and beliefs pushed him over the line into antisemitism. His election as leader effectively encouraged and emboldened those who shared his views and even more extreme ones. He and two successive General Secretaries, in their various ways and for differing reasons, failed to put the lid on these people, the ones spouting the Zionist/Rothschild, Soros and other Jewish financiers/New World Order cabals and conspiracies.

The best construct you can put on this is that is was an abject failure of process, which put proving a point intenrally above dealing firmly with the problem. The least attractive construct is that it was an institutional failure of an anti-racist party to tackle clear and obvious racism in its ranks.

All true, and also that there was a deliberate attempt to subvert the processes to deal with antisemitism by Corbyns opponents for their own political gain - all in the report, and they should be chucked out of labour at the same time as the antisemites. To use an issue as serious as this for personal political purposes/gain is as disgusting and dangerous as the antisemitism itself. It gives oxygen to the flame of conspiracy and apologists.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I never claimed the NEC suddenly all voted to adopt an antisemitic stance as part of Labour party policy. But it's quite clear to anyone but the brainwashed that Corbyn's consistent adoption of policies and beliefs pushed him over the line into antisemitism. His election as leader effectively encouraged and emboldened those who shared his views and even more extreme ones. He and two successive General Secretaries, in their various ways and for differing reasons, failed to put the lid on these people, the ones spouting the Zionist/Rothschild, Soros and other Jewish financiers/New World Order cabals and conspiracies.

The best construct you can put on this is that is was an abject failure of process, which put proving a point intenrally above dealing firmly with the problem. The least attractive construct is that it was an institutional failure of an anti-racist party to tackle clear and obvious racism in its ranks.

" But it's quite clear to anyone but the brainwashed that Corbyn's consistent adoption of policies and beliefs pushed him over the line into antisemitism. His election as leader effectively encouraged and emboldened those who shared his views and even more extreme ones"

There is no evidence to suggest this whatsoever, the basis of these claims is so thin as to be non-existent. So desperate were you and others to prove this, that evidence based accusations were ditched for want of any, and instead the tawdry way anti-Semitism cases were processed was trumpeted as prima facie evidence of deliberate and willful racism, accepted as correct until proved otherwise.

Well this report kills that stone dead.

Sienna Rodgers editor of LabourList wrote this in the Guardian....

"Some have assumed that the document, dated March 2020 and written by staff working in the era when Jeremy Corbyn was leader and his ally Jennie Formby the general secretary, provides evidence that Labour’s antisemitism problem is fictitious. That is not the conclusion of the report. Instead, its primary claim is that disciplinary cases were indeed poorly handled by the party; that this was not a mishandling of antisemitism complaints in particular but of all complaints in general; and that the situation has improved under Formby."

No argument with that, even you might agree.

She goes on....

"What is undeniable is that complaints have been mishandled due to a toxic internal culture, and that this has caused deep hurt – to the Jewish community, and to party members who worked hard for the Labour party with little reward."

And this is where we part. Evidence of mishandling of anti-Semitism cases caused deep hurt to the Jewish community, we now know why that was, you dismiss this as irrelevant, the evidence in the report as immaterial, you continue to parrot the entirely erroneous view that this mishandling was quite deliberate, a product of a permissive atmosphere created by Corbyn, where anti-Jewish racism could flourish. There is no evidence to suggest this and considerable evidence to contradict it.

I would suggest that if you're looking for brainwashed, look closer to home.

 

[The perfect fumble]

All true, and also that there was a deliberate attempt to subvert the processes to deal with antisemitism by Corbyns opponents for their own political gain - all in the report, and they should be chucked out of labour at the same time as the antisemites. To use an issue as serious as this for personal political purposes/gain is as disgusting and dangerous as the antisemitism itself. It gives oxygen to the flame of conspiracy and apologists.

No one is questioning the veracity of this report, but under the new regime, it was never destined to be in the public domain. Starmer is furious and has instigated an investigation, not in to its findings, but who leaked it, which is telling.

Imagine if the report had never seen the light of day. The Equality and Human Rights Commission would've have found evidence of salaried Labour Party staff deliberately mishandling claims of anti-Semitism, evidence, clear as day, of an institutionally racist organisation.

Corbyn and Formby, as head of the organisation, would clearly have been culpable.

Starmer would have apologised even more profusely than he's done already, pronounced himself the new broom, drawn a line under this despicable episode in the party's history and used it as political capital to justify a cull, of the wrong people, in the full knowledge they were the wrong people.

Anyone who claims to value the truth, should be immensely grateful to whoever it was who leaked this report.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

No one is questioning the veracity of this report, but under the new regime, it was never destined to be in the public domain. Starmer is furious and has instigated an investigation, not in to its findings, but who leaked it, which is telling.

Imagine if the report had never seen the light of day. The Equality and Human Rights Commission would've have found evidence of salaried Labour Party staff deliberately mishandling claims of anti-Semitism, evidence, clear as day, of an institutionally racist organisation.

Corbyn and Formby, as head of the organisation, would clearly have been culpable.

Starmer would have apologised even more profusely than he's done already, pronounced himself the new broom, drawn a line under this despicable episode in the party's history and used it as political capital to justify a cull, of the wrong people, in the full knowledge they were the wrong people.

Anyone who claims to value the truth, should be immensely grateful to whoever it was who leaked this report.

I agree with you. The report confirms that labour have two problems to deal with. Firstly antisemitism, and secondly the equally serious problem of some within its ranks reducing the antisemitism problem to a tool or weapon to be used in their own personal pursuit of power.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I agree with you. The report confirms that labour have two problems to deal with. Firstly antisemitism, and secondly the equally serious problem of some within its ranks reducing the antisemitism problem to a tool or weapon to be used in their own personal pursuit of power.

I wrote my above post before I'd seen this....

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...quiry-must-come-before-labour-officials-hired
Antisemitism inquiry 'must come before Labour officials hired'
"MPs seek pause in top-level recruitment after leaked report alleging hostility to Corbyn undermined 2017 elections"

That's designed to stop the Starmer cull

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rn-its-back-on-factionalism-says-keir-starmer
Labour must 'turn its back on factionalism', says Keir Starmer
"Party leader repeats calls for unity and promises rapid inquiry into leaked antisemitism report".....
"Some of the MPs who signed the statement have subsequently called for the inquiry to report to Labour’s national executive rather than Starmer’s office, and for a halt on any senior party appointments before the findings come back."

Sections of the party don't trust him, he was happy to bury this report and they know it, so they want any new inquiry to report to the national executive and not him. Reading between the lines, this level of hostility leads me to believe he was in on more than just burying this report.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I wrote my above post before I'd seen this....

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...quiry-must-come-before-labour-officials-hired
Antisemitism inquiry 'must come before Labour officials hired'
"MPs seek pause in top-level recruitment after leaked report alleging hostility to Corbyn undermined 2017 elections"

That's designed to stop the Starmer cull

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rn-its-back-on-factionalism-says-keir-starmer
Labour must 'turn its back on factionalism', says Keir Starmer
"Party leader repeats calls for unity and promises rapid inquiry into leaked antisemitism report".....
"Some of the MPs who signed the statement have subsequently called for the inquiry to report to Labour’s national executive rather than Starmer’s office, and for a halt on any senior party appointments before the findings come back."

Sections of the party don't trust him, he was happy to bury this report and they know it, so they want any new inquiry to report to the national executive and not him. Reading between the lines, this level of hostility leads me to believe he was in on more than just the burying of this report.

Starmer is a survivor and knows how to get on and climb the greasy pole. I'm sure he'll be fine.

 

[Ban-jani]

I agree with you. The report confirms that labour have two problems to deal with. Firstly antisemitism, and secondly the equally serious problem of some within its ranks reducing the antisemitism problem to a tool or weapon to be used in their own personal pursuit of power.

If the report is true then this is it exactly.

The poster you’re quoting has slightly amended his tone, from the victims of the racism are “milking it”.