The Labour Party

Postman Pep said:
Yeah I agee. It's almost as if they wouldn't do anything different .... except behave a bit better. In terms of welfare it shouldn't be a surprise.

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Ah, the art of contextless quotes, and only 7 years old too.

They don't want to be tagged as the party for those out of work, or those on benefits.
They want to be a party who are better for them than the Conservatives, but not just for those. It's not rocket science to work out the meaning without completely literal reading of carefully selected excerpts.

This would fly well on the Mail or GBNews though.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Ah, the art of contextless quotes, and only 7 years old too.

They don't want to be tagged as the party for those out of work, or those on benefits.
They want to be a party who are better for them than the Conservatives, but not just for those. It's not rocket science to work out the meaning without completely literal reading of carefully selected excerpts.

This would fly well on the Mail or GBNews though.
Click to expand...
Ah , the art of the context free reply.

Dont suppose you could shed any light why Labour would whip it's members in the Lord's to abstain on a LibDem motion to try to force the Tories to alleviate a bit of the pain faced by the worse off in society during a cost of living crisis?
 
Postman Pep said:
Ah , the art of the context free reply.

Dont suppose you could shed any light why Labour would whip it's members in the Lord's to abstain on a LibDem motion to try to force the Tories to alleviate a bit of the pain faced by the worse off in society during a cost of living crisis?
Click to expand...

I seem to recall they abstained on another benefits issue just before Corbyn became leader. Much better to help starve kids to appeal more to the floating turds.
 
Postman Pep said:
Ah , the art of the context free reply.

Dont suppose you could shed any light why Labour would whip it's members in the Lord's to abstain on a LibDem motion to try to force the Tories to alleviate a bit of the pain faced by the worse off in society during a cost of living crisis?
Click to expand...

No idea, I couldn't find anything saying why. Seems baffling.
 
Postman Pep said:
Ah , the art of the context free reply.

Dont suppose you could shed any light why Labour would whip it's members in the Lord's to abstain on a LibDem motion to try to force the Tories to alleviate a bit of the pain faced by the worse off in society during a cost of living crisis?
Click to expand...

I'm surmising but....without an indication from the government that it would not be reversed in the Commons, it was just a gesture. Last year Labour had an opposition day motion calling on the government to ensure 1.4 million children across the country receive the full value of free school meals for the duration of the school year, including holidays. It passed in the House of Commons with 272 votes in favour and none against, after the Prime Minister accused Labour of “playing politics” with its opposition day motions and instructed Tory MPs to abstain.

It's not exactly an explanation for abstaining, but Baroness Chapman (Labour) said:

"Should the Government choose to adopt the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Storey (LibDem), especially Amendments 58 and 59, they would have our wholehearted support. Noble Lords should not be surprised, of course, that the Labour Party takes this view. We lifted 1 million children out of poverty when we were last in government; we introduced the minimum wage and Sure Start; we introduced the first universal free childcare offer and oversaw significant increases in education and spending. This is at the heart of who we are.

"This is an urgent and widespread problem. In the north-east, as the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham said, a third of children are already on free school meals, so I know all too well how valuable a free meal is to families. Alternative proposals have been made; for example, providing a free school meal for children in families earning less than £20,000. In Labour-run Wales, reception-age children will get a free school meal from September, with all primary schoolchildren receiving them by 2024.

"We are concerned, too, about hunger during the school holidays. Currently, the holiday activity fund benefits only around a third of children on free school meals. I had hoped to discuss this with the relevant Minister last week, but he resigned instead. However, we are concerned about this and while some good evaluation has been done of the holiday activity fund, the fact that we are missing two-thirds of children on free school meals indicates that there is more work to do on why more children are not accessing it. While it is an attempt to improve the situation, it is just not working widely enough.

"I say this to the Government: whoever emerges as Prime Minister in a few weeks’ time, he or she will have to bring forward urgent measures to support hard-pressed families. Labour has argued for increases in the early years pupil premium and a recovery action plan, but it is important that we go much further. It is important, too, that we do not make spending commitments without having identified the source of the funding tonight. We are working on how best to do this, so that stigma and holiday provision are tackled as well, because we need to act.

"Families are struggling to afford the basics and with inflation, energy costs and food prices all increasing, the situation is just getting worse and worse. I put on record my sincere thanks—thank goodness they are there—to all those schools, teachers, charities and voluntary organisations that are saving lives by doing such amazing work in communities up and down the country. They are trying the best they can to fill this gap.

"From our position, the Opposition can only hope that the Government bring forward measures quickly, as the Labour Party has done in Wales. If they do, we will support them."
 
Vic said:
I'm surmising but....without an indication from the government that it would not be reversed in the Commons, it was just a gesture. Last year Labour had an opposition day motion calling on the government to ensure 1.4 million children across the country receive the full value of free school meals for the duration of the school year, including holidays. It passed in the House of Commons with 272 votes in favour and none against, after the Prime Minister accused Labour of “playing politics” with its opposition day motions and instructed Tory MPs to abstain.

It's not exactly an explanation for abstaining, but Baroness Chapman (Labour) said:

"Should the Government choose to adopt the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Storey (LibDem), especially Amendments 58 and 59, they would have our wholehearted support. Noble Lords should not be surprised, of course, that the Labour Party takes this view. We lifted 1 million children out of poverty when we were last in government; we introduced the minimum wage and Sure Start; we introduced the first universal free childcare offer and oversaw significant increases in education and spending. This is at the heart of who we are.

"This is an urgent and widespread problem. In the north-east, as the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham said, a third of children are already on free school meals, so I know all too well how valuable a free meal is to families. Alternative proposals have been made; for example, providing a free school meal for children in families earning less than £20,000. In Labour-run Wales, reception-age children will get a free school meal from September, with all primary schoolchildren receiving them by 2024.

"We are concerned, too, about hunger during the school holidays. Currently, the holiday activity fund benefits only around a third of children on free school meals. I had hoped to discuss this with the relevant Minister last week, but he resigned instead. However, we are concerned about this and while some good evaluation has been done of the holiday activity fund, the fact that we are missing two-thirds of children on free school meals indicates that there is more work to do on why more children are not accessing it. While it is an attempt to improve the situation, it is just not working widely enough.

"I say this to the Government: whoever emerges as Prime Minister in a few weeks’ time, he or she will have to bring forward urgent measures to support hard-pressed families. Labour has argued for increases in the early years pupil premium and a recovery action plan, but it is important that we go much further. It is important, too, that we do not make spending commitments without having identified the source of the funding tonight. We are working on how best to do this, so that stigma and holiday provision are tackled as well, because we need to act.

"Families are struggling to afford the basics and with inflation, energy costs and food prices all increasing, the situation is just getting worse and worse. I put on record my sincere thanks—thank goodness they are there—to all those schools, teachers, charities and voluntary organisations that are saving lives by doing such amazing work in communities up and down the country. They are trying the best they can to fill this gap.

"From our position, the Opposition can only hope that the Government bring forward measures quickly, as the Labour Party has done in Wales. If they do, we will support them."
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Imagine going to all the trouble to write and deliver those words earnestly ...... and then abstain :)
 
Vic said:
I'm surmising but....without an indication from the government that it would not be reversed in the Commons, it was just a gesture. Last year Labour had an opposition day motion calling on the government to ensure 1.4 million children across the country receive the full value of free school meals for the duration of the school year, including holidays. It passed in the House of Commons with 272 votes in favour and none against, after the Prime Minister accused Labour of “playing politics” with its opposition day motions and instructed Tory MPs to abstain.

It's not exactly an explanation for abstaining, but Baroness Chapman (Labour) said:

"Should the Government choose to adopt the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Storey (LibDem), especially Amendments 58 and 59, they would have our wholehearted support. Noble Lords should not be surprised, of course, that the Labour Party takes this view. We lifted 1 million children out of poverty when we were last in government; we introduced the minimum wage and Sure Start; we introduced the first universal free childcare offer and oversaw significant increases in education and spending. This is at the heart of who we are.

"This is an urgent and widespread problem. In the north-east, as the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham said, a third of children are already on free school meals, so I know all too well how valuable a free meal is to families. Alternative proposals have been made; for example, providing a free school meal for children in families earning less than £20,000. In Labour-run Wales, reception-age children will get a free school meal from September, with all primary schoolchildren receiving them by 2024.

"We are concerned, too, about hunger during the school holidays. Currently, the holiday activity fund benefits only around a third of children on free school meals. I had hoped to discuss this with the relevant Minister last week, but he resigned instead. However, we are concerned about this and while some good evaluation has been done of the holiday activity fund, the fact that we are missing two-thirds of children on free school meals indicates that there is more work to do on why more children are not accessing it. While it is an attempt to improve the situation, it is just not working widely enough.

"I say this to the Government: whoever emerges as Prime Minister in a few weeks’ time, he or she will have to bring forward urgent measures to support hard-pressed families. Labour has argued for increases in the early years pupil premium and a recovery action plan, but it is important that we go much further. It is important, too, that we do not make spending commitments without having identified the source of the funding tonight. We are working on how best to do this, so that stigma and holiday provision are tackled as well, because we need to act.

"Families are struggling to afford the basics and with inflation, energy costs and food prices all increasing, the situation is just getting worse and worse. I put on record my sincere thanks—thank goodness they are there—to all those schools, teachers, charities and voluntary organisations that are saving lives by doing such amazing work in communities up and down the country. They are trying the best they can to fill this gap.

"From our position, the Opposition can only hope that the Government bring forward measures quickly, as the Labour Party has done in Wales. If they do, we will support them."
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It would be great to see but it’s Pie in the Sky. The Tories are too far right and it would take a huge effort to change that, meaning years of underfunding and even worse conditions whilst those at the top grab what they can from society.

If we as a country can’t see what is going on and continue to support the Tories then there is no helping us.
 
Someone (ex labour supporter then because of Brexit went full on Tory and in denial of the consequences I guess) doesn't like Raynor.
__________________
"I genuinely don't believe politicians from either side have grasped the enormity of pain people are feeling with inflation and fuel prices. They all have their noses in the trough.

One of the worst is Rayner - her expenses alone last year - £195,000. That's about 30k more than Starmer 50k more than her equivalent Raab. She's long left her working class roots behind. Enjoys opera and the high life now. Probably the worst example of a hypocrite MP I've ever come across, utter fraud. Married yet shagging another married MP at her tax payer funded flat (30k a year). They're all simply awful."

__________________

No idea on the expenses claim but often (like the Starmer lies from his time as a QC) I'll see if I can fact check.
Perhaps given this heat not a good time for 'politically heated debates' although I think it's going beyond politics when the right wing language starts to kick in.
Not quite sure why she can't head to the opera and why on earth that's going against her 'working class roots'.
Not sure what her high life is too (and if she's done ok for herself, whether she rubs you up the wrong way or not, why shouldn't she?
Notice Brexit being left out go the missive too (fuel/inflation).

The utter detritus of political debate atm....
 
somapop said:
Someone (ex labour supporter then because of Brexit went full on Tory and in denial of the consequences I guess) doesn't like Raynor.
__________________
"I genuinely don't believe politicians from either side have grasped the enormity of pain people are feeling with inflation and fuel prices. They all have their noses in the trough.

One of the worst is Rayner - her expenses alone last year - £195,000. That's about 30k more than Starmer 50k more than her equivalent Raab. She's long left her working class roots behind. Enjoys opera and the high life now. Probably the worst example of a hypocrite MP I've ever come across, utter fraud. Married yet shagging another married MP at her tax payer funded flat (30k a year). They're all simply awful."

__________________

No idea on the expenses claim but often (like the Starmer lies from his time as a QC) I'll see if I can fact check.
Perhaps given this heat not a good time for 'politically heated debates' although I think it's going beyond politics when the right wing language starts to kick in.
Not quite sure why she can't head to the opera and why on earth that's going against her 'working class roots'.
Not sure what her high life is too (and if she's done ok for herself, whether she rubs you up the wrong way or not, why shouldn't she?
Notice Brexit being left out go the missive too (fuel/inflation).

The utter detritus of political debate atm....
Click to expand...
I'm more interested in the shagging bit. Who is it, and are there any pics?
 
somapop said:
Someone (ex labour supporter then because of Brexit went full on Tory and in denial of the consequences I guess) doesn't like Raynor.
__________________
"I genuinely don't believe politicians from either side have grasped the enormity of pain people are feeling with inflation and fuel prices. They all have their noses in the trough.

One of the worst is Rayner - her expenses alone last year - £195,000. That's about 30k more than Starmer 50k more than her equivalent Raab. She's long left her working class roots behind. Enjoys opera and the high life now. Probably the worst example of a hypocrite MP I've ever come across, utter fraud. Married yet shagging another married MP at her tax payer funded flat (30k a year). They're all simply awful."

__________________

No idea on the expenses claim but often (like the Starmer lies from his time as a QC) I'll see if I can fact check.
Perhaps given this heat not a good time for 'politically heated debates' although I think it's going beyond politics when the right wing language starts to kick in.
Not quite sure why she can't head to the opera and why on earth that's going against her 'working class roots'.
Not sure what her high life is too (and if she's done ok for herself, whether she rubs you up the wrong way or not, why shouldn't she?
Notice Brexit being left out go the missive too (fuel/inflation).

The utter detritus of political debate atm....
Click to expand...

That’s less claimed than the average MP!
 
As has been said before, those who put their heart and soul into 'Boris' (as he was affectionately known to both red and wall supporters) won't be feeling particularly good about being duped.
So the rhetoric has to be subdued if we're going to discuss as adults.

Personally I know what it's like to not admit I'm wrong and it's cost me many things over the years, but learn I did and it's much better for you to do so.
There's many that won't and instead turn on the counter barrage (whether true or not and has been the case with the right wing press and the Labour Party/Starmer etc).
 
That does sound like a lot of expenses when written down without context btw, but when has that stopped information being passed around to try and win arguments (see anti vaxx & covid).
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I'm more interested in the shagging bit. Who is it, and are there any pics?
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There were pics (not those kind) a few months back of her and Sam Tarry emerging from behind the same door one morning on their way to 'work'.

Wouldn't necessarily go down the line of tittle tattle but such is our shit political discourse nobody is really interested in the internal shenanigans of the Labour Party. Aside from 2015-19 of course.

I bet this makes for interesting pillow talk

 
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somapop said:
Someone (ex labour supporter then because of Brexit went full on Tory and in denial of the consequences I guess) doesn't like Raynor.
__________________
"I genuinely don't believe politicians from either side have grasped the enormity of pain people are feeling with inflation and fuel prices. They all have their noses in the trough.

One of the worst is Rayner - her expenses alone last year - £195,000. That's about 30k more than Starmer 50k more than her equivalent Raab. She's long left her working class roots behind. Enjoys opera and the high life now. Probably the worst example of a hypocrite MP I've ever come across, utter fraud. Married yet shagging another married MP at her tax payer funded flat (30k a year). They're all simply awful."

__________________

No idea on the expenses claim but often (like the Starmer lies from his time as a QC) I'll see if I can fact check.
Perhaps given this heat not a good time for 'politically heated debates' although I think it's going beyond politics when the right wing language starts to kick in.
Not quite sure why she can't head to the opera and why on earth that's going against her 'working class roots'.
Not sure what her high life is too (and if she's done ok for herself, whether she rubs you up the wrong way or not, why shouldn't she?
Notice Brexit being left out go the missive too (fuel/inflation).

The utter detritus of political debate atm....
Click to expand...

It’s a bit out but only by £4k.

https://www.theoldhamtimes.co.uk/news/19876404.revealed-amount-claimed-expenses-oldhams-mps/

The 30k discrepancy between her and Starmer is probably because her main residence is not in London and so she needs to rent somewhere to live.

Starmer's constituency is around the corner from his family home so no need to have two residences.

Ministers get a bump in salary, use of grace and favour residences and ministerial cars. Starmer as LOTO is also the only member of the shadow cabinet to get a salary boost.

Most of the costs are for staff and she isn't even top of the list for Oldham MPs.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
It’s a bit out but only by £4k.

https://www.theoldhamtimes.co.uk/news/19876404.revealed-amount-claimed-expenses-oldhams-mps/

The 30k discrepancy between her and Starmer is probably because her main residence is not in London and so she needs to rent somewhere to live.

Starmer's constituency is around the corner from his family home so no need to have two residences.

Ministers get a bump in salary, use of grace and favour residences and ministerial cars. Starmer as LOTO is also the only member of the shadow cabinet to get a salary boost.

Most of the costs are for staff and she isn't even top of the list for Oldham MPs.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's getting down to scattershot approach to facts now.

A weird dream for some has become a bit of a nightmare so humans tend to lash out.
But the working classes not voting labour because they don't represent us then being swayed by the likes of Boris Johnson and Rees-Mogg and co is bewildering.

Then when Labour has some real working class amongst them, they themselves are ganged up on.

It's not politics this is classism and misogony. And that's where the condundrum over how you debate with these views becomes interesting,
 
“not a whitewash”


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