The Labour Party

[Vic]

Does that mean the nhs are using private business beds then, do they keep those beds forever, if you are going down that route then why not pay private companies to perform the backlog of operations, get the waiting lists down to a manageable level, get people back to work off the sick, once this is done then hioefully the NHS would be back to a manageable level. Maybe it would cost a bit in the short term but Shirley getting people off the sick etc would be better for the country.

Nearly all care outside hospitals is private, whether in care homes or in someone's own home. If someone is well enough to leave hospital but (e.g.) can't manage alone in their own home, it's a simple calculation for the NHS whether the cost of paying for a care bed outweighs the cost of having nurses performing "care" duties rather than nursing. If the result is that patients aren't being treated in corridors, that also means ambulances aren't tied up waiting somewhere to put their patients.

Staff shortages, and paying for some operations in the private sector, is a separate issue.

 

[Bigga]

Basically because certain parts of the world are fucked, from the Middle East to Africa to name but a few. Wars, famine, broken economics, many places in the world are broken and the displaced need to find alternative places to live.

Very simplistic answer in a very complicated sphere and many stronger economies are going through the same, most having much higher levels than ours, and it’s something that needs to be addressed globally.

Until that happens, there is no way of stopping it, it’s happened since life began.

Perhaps... Just hear me out... Perhaps if Western govs stopped regime change/ installing puppets for their own interests, it would stop a lot of displacement and... wait for it... stop most migrants seeking safety either economically or from war or both.

Why not just trade fairly for resources instead of just taking them...?

Silly radical idea, I know...

 

[Blue Maverick]

Perhaps... Just hear me out... Perhaps if Western govs stopped regime change/ installing puppets for their own interests, it would stop a lot of displacement and... wait for it... stop most migrants seeking safety either economically or from war or both.

Why not just trade fairly for resources instead of just taking them...?

Silly radical idea, I know...

Ye but then how would you get your £2 Primark tshirt.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Nearly all care outside hospitals is private, whether in care homes or in someone's own home. If someone is well enough to leave hospital but (e.g.) can't manage alone in their own home, it's a simple calculation for the NHS whether the cost of paying for a care bed outweighs the cost of having nurses performing "care" duties rather than nursing. If the result is that patients aren't being treated in corridors, that also means ambulances aren't tied up waiting somewhere to put their patients.

Staff shortages, and paying for some operations in the private sector, is a separate issue.

Absolutely agree but from what seems to be going on they don’t have enough staff for the care homes these days and a lot can’t recruit as British people don’t want to wipe arses. It’s a total cluster fuck.

 

[Bigga]

Ye but then how would you get your £2 Primark tshirt.

TBF, I didn't think about that...

 

[Bigga]

Absolutely agree but from what seems to be going on they don’t have enough staff for the care homes these days and a lot can’t recruit as British people don’t want to wipe arses. It’s a total cluster fuck.

Don't think it's as much as Brits don't want to wipe arses (and I wanted out of EU so the NHS could employ more from within its own country), I think they don't want to get paid at the low end to do social care on that level, whilst tapping a keyboard/ pushing a pen gets way more than that.

 

[BobKowalski]

Don't think it's as much as Brits don't want to wipe arses (and I wanted out of EU so the NHS could employ more from within its own country), I think they don't want to get paid at the low end to do social care on that level, whilst tapping a keyboard/ pushing a pen gets way more than that.

They just employ from the Philippines or wherever. At some point the penny will drop that we ain’t staffing the Health and care sectors from within our own country. All we keep doing is increasing the cost of importing labour and then whining that costs keep going up. It’s fucking dumb.

 

[Bigga]

They just employ from the Philippines or wherever. At some point the penny will drop that we ain’t staffing the Health and care sectors from within our own country. All we keep doing is increasing the cost of importing labour and then whining that costs keep going up. It’s fucking dumb.

At last, we agree on something.

 

[metalblue]

There are some ideas that seem simple solutions to problems...

Labour plans to use NHS budget to buy beds in care homes

A Labour government would use NHS money to buy thousands of beds in care homes, Wes Streeting has said, under plans to reduce overcrowding in England’s hospitals and long waits in A&E. The shadow health secretary said the move would address the situation of beds being occupied by patients who are fit to leave but remain stuck because a lack of care outside the hospital. There are 13,000 beds in England – enough to fill 26 hospitals – being occupied by such patients. Labour intends to funnel some of the NHS’s £165bn budget into the plan as one of a series of immediate changes intended to relieve the crisis in the health service. Streeting said that a Labour government would expect hospitals across England to follow the example of Leeds teaching hospitals NHS trust, which spends £9m a year buying up care home beds in order to cut delayed discharges and free up beds. That initiative has freed up 165 beds, helped reduce the number of patients who are admitted avoidably and saved the trust between £17m and £23m, it has estimated.

Genius. Just one tiny problem…Do we have thousands of beds available in care homes? Are people happy to potentially be miles away from home? When Mrs MB was a discharge CNS she used to struggle like hell to find a place then after shedding blood sweat and occasionally tears to find one then get yelled at by relatives because it was too far away from them. It was a fun job.

If anyone thinks there are simple solutions to the challenges faced by the NHS they haven’t been paying attention - that’s worrying when one of them is our next health secretary.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Genius. Just one tiny problem…Do we have thousands of beds available in care homes? Are people happy to potentially be miles away from home? When Mrs MB was a discharge CNS she used to struggle like hell to find a place then after shedding blood sweat and occasionally tears to find one then get yelled at by relatives because it was too far away from them. It was a fun job.

If anyone thinks there are simple solutions to the challenges faced by the NHS they haven’t been paying attention - that’s worrying when one of them is our next health secretary.

Remove the backlog from the immigration crisis and use those buildings as respite care homes. :-)

 

[metalblue]

Nearly all care outside hospitals is private, whether in care homes or in someone's own home. If someone is well enough to leave hospital but (e.g.) can't manage alone in their own home, it's a simple calculation for the NHS whether the cost of paying for a care bed outweighs the cost of having nurses performing "care" duties rather than nursing. If the result is that patients aren't being treated in corridors, that also means ambulances aren't tied up waiting somewhere to put their patients.

Staff shortages, and paying for some operations in the private sector, is a separate issue.

Jesus wept. What the do you think NHS staff are doing when someone is medically fit to be discharged from the acute setting? You seem to think they are just sitting around waiting for patients to leave on their own volition … and not trying to organise community care or care / nursing home placements. You can’t organise what doesn’t exist, virtual wards is the latest thinking here and that works reasonably well as it happens.

 

[metalblue]

Remove the backlog from the immigration crisis and use those buildings as respite care homes. :-)

Lol. Didn’t the government come up with discharging medically fit people to hotels during covid?

I’m sure that was met with much wrath and mocking on here but if our Wes suggests it he’s solved all the world’s woes.

 

[mexico1970]

Jesus wept. What the do you think NHS staff are doing when someone is medically fit to be discharged from the acute setting? You seem to think they are just sitting around waiting for patients to leave on their own volition … and not trying to organise community care or care / nursing home placements. You can’t organise what doesn’t exist, virtual wards is the latest thinking here and that works reasonably well as it happens.

Makes you wonder how medical staff actually cope when faced with the dilemmas that they do face.
After watching a few programs on the telly about the American health service and people literally being shovelled out of the door as soon as the treatments are either complete or "Good enough" to be classed as patched up.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Lol. Didn’t the government come up with discharging medically fit people to hotels during covid?

I’m sure that was met with much wrath and mocking on here but if our Wes suggests it he’s solved all the world’s woes.

The asylum seekers wouldn’t even have to move far and they’d have jobs!

 

[Here4Politics]

 

[metalblue]

Makes you wonder how medical staff actually cope when faced with the dilemmas that they do face.
After watching a few programs on the telly about the American health service and people literally being shovelled out of the door as soon as the treatments are either complete or "Good enough" to be classed as patched up.

The NHS won’t discharge you if you can’t find your house keys in the US you can leave if you’re still alive ;)

 

[metalblue]

The asylum seekers wouldn’t even have to move far and they’d have jobs!

Lol. I hope to see your name on the ballot sheet..getting my vote with this sort of joined up thinking ;)

 

[metalblue]

Just relayed labours care home plan to Mrs MB. Ignoring what she said about the lack of capacity in care homes (beds and staff) her response was:

The NHS already commissions care home beds but they are mostly private organisations that have the right to refuse any patients they don’t want.

Discharge itself is complex because patients are complex, ideally you need to have patients and families agree on what that looks like. Patients have right of refusal to go even if you do find them a place then you are left with going down the “eviction” route which isn’t easy…if it was they wouldn’t have patients unnecessarily sitting in beds today for a year or more.

Standards in care homes can often be questioned - eg if residents ever get pressure sores - that care home is then blacklisted until standards improve. This happens a lot.

She concluded by saying families can pick up a relative and shove them in any care home they fancy, the NHS can’t. Sadly we don’t do enough as a society to look after our own relatives.

This is from someone who did this job for 3 years solid, day in, day out and still banks for them from time to time. I’d take her experiences over Wes Streeting bolitics (political bollocks) any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

It’s a lot harder being in government than opposition when all you have to do is say the government should “do more”. This shows an embarrassingly poor grasp of the challenges in his portfolio.

 

[Vic]

Remove the backlog from the immigration crisis and use those buildings as respite care homes. :-)

Ask the immigrants to stay on as carers (or in some cases as doctors)

 

[Vic]

Jesus wept. What the do you think NHS staff are doing when someone is medically fit to be discharged from the acute setting? You seem to think they are just sitting around waiting for patients to leave on their own volition … and not trying to organise community care or care / nursing home placements. You can’t organise what doesn’t exist, virtual wards is the latest thinking here and that works reasonably well as it happens.

And if organising care was a lot easier because their Trust had contracted to provide beds in a care home?