The Long Throw

franksinatra said:
Good on teams using it. Play to your strengths and to be honest the identikit football we have seen over the last few years has been pretty dull. Bit of variety, different challenges is good for the game.
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There's still identikit football - just that these days it's the "low block" (in quotes because I fuckin hate the term - it's just defending on your fuckin penalty area), and the "quick transition" (that used to be the long ball for you youngsters)
Sam Allardyce will be creaming himself - alot of PL teams are playing his "style" these days because it suits
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Why is this suddenly all the rage again? I mean there's always been the odd team who happens to have a player who can do a long throw, but it seems like half the Premier League are doing it this season all of a sudden. What's happened to make so many teams decide that it's obviously a winning tactic all at the same time? And how long will it last before every defence reacts and it stops working?
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was more relevant with lower league football. it is frustrating tbh
 
youngbob said:
I'm currently training and studying to become a data analyst via my job, and a lot of the more recent tactical emphasis on corners and long throw-ins in the Premier League reminds me of things I've learned during the training course I've done over the last few months.

Yes, data analysis is just analysing data (duh, it's on the can), but it's also about finding stories within numbers, and finding patterns and pathways through pretty daunting information. And that's what's happened behind the scenes at numerous PL clubs over the last 10-15 years.

Basically, data analysts and coaches at a number of PL (and 2nd tier) teams have realised that corners and throw-ins are, for want of a better word, chaos. Chaos means lots and lots of data. And if you can turn that data into something tangible that's able to be controlled and moulded, you're in luck.

So, for instance, Arsenal have probably looked at all the corners they took between 2020 and 2023. How many from the left, how many from the right, how many resulted in goal-scoring opportunities, how many were caught by the goalkeeper, how many were just headed away by opposition defenders, and so on.

If, say, 25% of their corners were caught by goalkeepers, another 25% were headed away, another 25% were won in the air by an Arsenal player, and then 25% resulted in goals or shots, they'd start focusing on why only 1/4 of their corners were leading to big chances and then start replicating those conditions over and over.

They've realised that if they can block the keeper then that first 25% goes down to, say, 15%. And if they can block defenders then they can free up their attacking runners. And once all that falls into place, the percentage of corners leading to goalscoring opportunities can be increased - and all by finding a pathway through the data.

It's a combination of the old ways of thinking ("Get it in the mixer and get the big man's head on it") and the new ways of thinking ("Let's use data and analytics to try and swing games our way"), which means what you've got is essentially a heightened, more sophisticated form of the tactics Allardyce, Bruce, etc. used to employ.

Spurs, Brentford, Sunderland, etc. and a bunch of other teams have basically followed suit. It's the 2000s Mourinho method of playing the percentages for 90 mins, and forcing as many marginal moments as possible, then having the right weapons to turn those engineered 50/50 moments into goals and wins and trophies, etc.

I don't really know how I feel about it from an aesthetical point of view, but in the end corners and throw-ins are part of the rules and teams should be allowed to win any way they can within those rules. The teams who figure out how to master set-pieces and this new era of faster football will be very hard to catch for 2-3 years.

In the end it's the same thing we did around 2017. Pep realised that, after his first season, PL teams left an awful lot of space in behind, so we got a keeper who was press-resistant, sucked teams into our half without the ball, and then used the speed of De Bruyne, Sane, Aguero, and Sterling to just rip the game away from them.

That's why we were basically impossible to stop during the 17/18 and 18/19 years. We were essentially playing alien football. Then teams got smarter, started practising how to best structure a low block, looking at the spaces we left behind us when we set up camp 35 yards from goal, and we had to learn some new methods to keep winning.

Something will come along in 1-2 years that stops Arsenal, Spurs, etc. from being so dominant at set-pieces. Teams will sign bigger, more muscular goalkeepers; they'll start going to ground easier to con the referee into giving fouls in favour of the defenders; they'll start sticking a man on the touchline to distract the player throwing the ball.

It's all part of how football has always, and will always, change.
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Great post mate, I enjoyed reading your insights here
 
youngbob said:
I'm currently training and studying to become a data analyst via my job, and a lot of the more recent tactical emphasis on corners and long throw-ins in the Premier League reminds me of things I've learned during the training course I've done over the last few months.

Yes, data analysis is just analysing data (duh, it's on the can), but it's also about finding stories within numbers, and finding patterns and pathways through pretty daunting information. And that's what's happened behind the scenes at numerous PL clubs over the last 10-15 years.

Basically, data analysts and coaches at a number of PL (and 2nd tier) teams have realised that corners and throw-ins are, for want of a better word, chaos. Chaos means lots and lots of data. And if you can turn that data into something tangible that's able to be controlled and moulded, you're in luck.

So, for instance, Arsenal have probably looked at all the corners they took between 2020 and 2023. How many from the left, how many from the right, how many resulted in goal-scoring opportunities, how many were caught by the goalkeeper, how many were just headed away by opposition defenders, and so on.

If, say, 25% of their corners were caught by goalkeepers, another 25% were headed away, another 25% were won in the air by an Arsenal player, and then 25% resulted in goals or shots, they'd start focusing on why only 1/4 of their corners were leading to big chances and then start replicating those conditions over and over.

They've realised that if they can block the keeper then that first 25% goes down to, say, 15%. And if they can block defenders then they can free up their attacking runners. And once all that falls into place, the percentage of corners leading to goalscoring opportunities can be increased - and all by finding a pathway through the data.

It's a combination of the old ways of thinking ("Get it in the mixer and get the big man's head on it") and the new ways of thinking ("Let's use data and analytics to try and swing games our way"), which means what you've got is essentially a heightened, more sophisticated form of the tactics Allardyce, Bruce, etc. used to employ.

Spurs, Brentford, Sunderland, etc. and a bunch of other teams have basically followed suit. It's the 2000s Mourinho method of playing the percentages for 90 mins, and forcing as many marginal moments as possible, then having the right weapons to turn those engineered 50/50 moments into goals and wins and trophies, etc.

I don't really know how I feel about it from an aesthetical point of view, but in the end corners and throw-ins are part of the rules and teams should be allowed to win any way they can within those rules. The teams who figure out how to master set-pieces and this new era of faster football will be very hard to catch for 2-3 years.

In the end it's the same thing we did around 2017. Pep realised that, after his first season, PL teams left an awful lot of space in behind, so we got a keeper who was press-resistant, sucked teams into our half without the ball, and then used the speed of De Bruyne, Sane, Aguero, and Sterling to just rip the game away from them.

That's why we were basically impossible to stop during the 17/18 and 18/19 years. We were essentially playing alien football. Then teams got smarter, started practising how to best structure a low block, looking at the spaces we left behind us when we set up camp 35 yards from goal, and we had to learn some new methods to keep winning.

Something will come along in 1-2 years that stops Arsenal, Spurs, etc. from being so dominant at set-pieces. Teams will sign bigger, more muscular goalkeepers; they'll start going to ground easier to con the referee into giving fouls in favour of the defenders; they'll start sticking a man on the touchline to distract the player throwing the ball.

It's all part of how football has always, and will always, change.
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I read somewhere (classic evidence) that you were more likely to get a shot off from a long throw in than from a corner. Something about it less able to be headed away any distance.

From a playing perspective they should have a set amount of time to take throw ins, goal kicks and corners. As a sop they’ve decided that goal keepers are the only fall guys and that just seems inherently unfair.
To waste time at corners, start pushing opponents then fall to the floor and thr ref now stops the corner being taken, whilst wagging his finger.
Then place the ball outside the D and the referee pops over to make you put it back in.
Take your long throw in and corners by all means but do them within an agreed timeframe.
 
blue b4 the moon said:
Know what you mean, I'm probably done at the end of the season after 45 years as a ST holder with a few years missing due to work.

The enjoyment isn't the same and moving tickets around as I intended missing the midwinter 'average games' next season will be too much fucking about.

Chances are on the games the club can't shift stuff I'll pick up a ticket when my mates get an additional allowance for the cat C type games.
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After over 60 years I’m done……thanks for the memories
 
Blue Hefner said:
Regardless of their effectiveness I find it fucking dull that every throw in is turned into a 3 act play.

If a player took that long to take a ‘normal’ throw in, they would be booked for time wasting. No question about it
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No a City player would. As was seen 2/3 games ago. It is corrupt to the core.
 
Is the home team required to provide a dry towel? Soak them all, surely the ref isn’t going to allow the away team to run a dry towel all the way round the pitch?
 
youngbob said:
I'm currently training and studying to become a data analyst via my job, and a lot of the more recent tactical emphasis on corners and long throw-ins in the Premier League reminds me of things I've learned during the training course I've done over the last few months.

Yes, data analysis is just analysing data (duh, it's on the can), but it's also about finding stories within numbers, and finding patterns and pathways through pretty daunting information. And that's what's happened behind the scenes at numerous PL clubs over the last 10-15 years.

Basically, data analysts and coaches at a number of PL (and 2nd tier) teams have realised that corners and throw-ins are, for want of a better word, chaos. Chaos means lots and lots of data. And if you can turn that data into something tangible that's able to be controlled and moulded, you're in luck.

So, for instance, Arsenal have probably looked at all the corners they took between 2020 and 2023. How many from the left, how many from the right, how many resulted in goal-scoring opportunities, how many were caught by the goalkeeper, how many were just headed away by opposition defenders, and so on.

If, say, 25% of their corners were caught by goalkeepers, another 25% were headed away, another 25% were won in the air by an Arsenal player, and then 25% resulted in goals or shots, they'd start focusing on why only 1/4 of their corners were leading to big chances and then start replicating those conditions over and over.

They've realised that if they can block the keeper then that first 25% goes down to, say, 15%. And if they can block defenders then they can free up their attacking runners. And once all that falls into place, the percentage of corners leading to goalscoring opportunities can be increased - and all by finding a pathway through the data.

It's a combination of the old ways of thinking ("Get it in the mixer and get the big man's head on it") and the new ways of thinking ("Let's use data and analytics to try and swing games our way"), which means what you've got is essentially a heightened, more sophisticated form of the tactics Allardyce, Bruce, etc. used to employ.

Spurs, Brentford, Sunderland, etc. and a bunch of other teams have basically followed suit. It's the 2000s Mourinho method of playing the percentages for 90 mins, and forcing as many marginal moments as possible, then having the right weapons to turn those engineered 50/50 moments into goals and wins and trophies, etc.

I don't really know how I feel about it from an aesthetical point of view, but in the end corners and throw-ins are part of the rules and teams should be allowed to win any way they can within those rules. The teams who figure out how to master set-pieces and this new era of faster football will be very hard to catch for 2-3 years.

In the end it's the same thing we did around 2017. Pep realised that, after his first season, PL teams left an awful lot of space in behind, so we got a keeper who was press-resistant, sucked teams into our half without the ball, and then used the speed of De Bruyne, Sane, Aguero, and Sterling to just rip the game away from them.

That's why we were basically impossible to stop during the 17/18 and 18/19 years. We were essentially playing alien football. Then teams got smarter, started practising how to best structure a low block, looking at the spaces we left behind us when we set up camp 35 yards from goal, and we had to learn some new methods to keep winning.

Something will come along in 1-2 years that stops Arsenal, Spurs, etc. from being so dominant at set-pieces. Teams will sign bigger, more muscular goalkeepers; they'll start going to ground easier to con the referee into giving fouls in favour of the defenders; they'll start sticking a man on the touchline to distract the player throwing the ball.

It's all part of how football has always, and will always, change.
Click to expand...
Yes but English football is going back to the 80s when it was a laughing stock apart from Liverpool who played a European style passing game. It has become like NFL with blocking tactics and long punts. Totally turgid rubbish. Arsenal have perfected the cheating with diving and time wasting and time-outs. Just like the 80s crowds will decline because it is shit to watch. Meanwhile the CL will remain at the elite level.
 
Pep's missing a trick with you guys. The answer is simple;

Who is your most powerful player? The guy most likely to be able to throw it farthest?Haaland.

Who is your quickest player? Haaland.

So it seems obvious to me that Haaland should be taking long throws ins and then sprinting to get on the end of his own throws and heading them into the net!
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Yes but English football is going back to the 80s when it was a laughing stock apart from Liverpool who played a European style passing game. It has become like NFL with blocking tactics and long punts. Totally turgid rubbish. Arsenal have perfected the cheating with diving and time wasting and time-outs. Just like the 80s crowds will decline because it is shit to watch. Meanwhile the CL will remain at the elite level.
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Allowing Arsenal to rush and block the goalkeeper and defenders is so obviously a tactic and so obviously against the interest of the game it must have been decided to allow it. I can't imagine they would be doing it much if all their goals from corners were disallowed for ten games or so for obstruction. So I can only assume it's deliberate. The PL would like nothing more than Arsenal winning the league this year.

As for long throws, throw-ins are part of the game but only as part of the mechanism for getting the ball back in play. If a player can just pick up the ball and chuck it into the goal, why not? But defenders jogging upfield to do them, taking a specific ball ten yards away and then going back a few yards again, using a towel. Don't allow it. You can't choose a ball for a free-kick, or use a towel for a free-kick and those follow actual offences, so why for a throw-in. Any fannying around - yellow card for time wasting.

Typical of the sport at the moment, though. Don't apply the rules that have worked for generations. Make up new dumb-ass rules that make things worse.
 
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