The Neutral View....

[Latics Fan SJK]

yes sorry, wrong way round I got it, but the head to head with Madrid won't matter unless we beat them and Dortmund by a couple of goals because a 1 goal win would mean they win out of the 4 teams on GD if we all finish on 8 points.

End of the day we have to win twice, Dortmund have to lose twice and Madrid have to draw against Ajax.

Not really. If Madrid beat Ajax (which they will), City will finish 2nd (providing you win twice and Dortmund lose twice, obviously).

Easy (until you look at the words in brackets).

Haha, I know.

Put it this way, two home wins in the group tonight (which is far from impossible) and, IMO, it's in your hands when you travel to Dortmund as Ajax will get fuck all in Madrid.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Hmmmmm....pretty sure that if we beat Madrid by only 1 clear goal in a 1-0 or 2-1 win then we win the head-to-head by virtue of having scored more away goals. From last season's rules on tied teams. Apply this to a scenario whereby it comes down to a head-to-head between us and Madrid and we've beaten them either 1-0 or 2-1 in tonight's match:


1.higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question - Tie
2.superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question - Tie
3.higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teams in question - Tie
4.higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches played among the teams in question - We win so no need to apply points 5-8 below
5.If, after applying criteria 1) to 4) to several teams, two teams still have an equal ranking, the criteria 1) to 4) will be reapplied to determine the ranking of these teams;
6.superior goal difference from all group matches played;
7.higher number of goals scored from all group matches played;
8.higher number of coefficient points accumulated by the club in question, as well as its association, over the previous five seasons.

yes sorry, wrong way round I got it, but the head to head with Madrid won't matter unless we beat them and Dortmund by a couple of goals because a 1 goal win would mean they win out of the 4 teams on GD if we all finish on 8 points.

End of the day we have to win twice, Dortmund have to lose twice and Madrid have to draw against Ajax.

Not really. If Madrid beat Ajax (which they will), City will finish 2nd (providing you win twice and Dortmund lose twice, obviously).

I'd like to finish top of the group as 2nd just means we're guaranteed Barca whilst United will get Celtic or someone equally as passable.<br /><br />-- Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:07 pm --<br /><br />

Not really. If Madrid beat Ajax (which they will), City will finish 2nd (providing you win twice and Dortmund lose twice, obviously).

Easy (until you look at the words in brackets).

Haha, I know.

Put it this way, two home wins in the group tonight (which is far from impossible) and, IMO, it's in your hands when you travel to Dortmund as Ajax will get fuck all in Madrid.

not fair 2bh, Ajax have got something at ours and beaten us, Dortmund went and got something in Madrid and we nearly did, so if Ajax beat Dortmund and have everything to play for there's no reason to rule them out and dismiss them, they were dismissed at the start of the group and they took 4 points off us.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

yes sorry, wrong way round I got it, but the head to head with Madrid won't matter unless we beat them and Dortmund by a couple of goals because a 1 goal win would mean they win out of the 4 teams on GD if we all finish on 8 points.

End of the day we have to win twice, Dortmund have to lose twice and Madrid have to draw against Ajax.

Not really. If Madrid beat Ajax (which they will), City will finish 2nd (providing you win twice and Dortmund lose twice, obviously).

I'd like to finish top of the group as 2nd just means we're guaranteed Barca whilst United will get Celtic or someone equally as passable.

-- Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:07 pm --

Easy (until you look at the words in brackets).

Haha, I know.

Put it this way, two home wins in the group tonight (which is far from impossible) and, IMO, it's in your hands when you travel to Dortmund as Ajax will get fuck all in Madrid.

not fair 2bh, Ajax have got something at ours and beaten us, Dortmund went and got something in Madrid and we nearly did, so if Ajax beat Dortmund and have everything to play for there's no reason to rule them out and dismiss them, they were dismissed at the start of the group and they took 4 points off us.

The only reason they've picked up points against you though is simply because you've not played well and the lucky non-penalty at the Etihad. Madrid & Dortmund have both played well, simply because they are very good teams.

It might sound harsh, but, IMO, they have no chance getting anything from the Bernabeu, even if you nearly scraped a draw and Dortmund did.

And as for you wanting to top the group, lets not be greedy eh? ;-)

Plus, coming 2nd in the group means you can still be drawn against Malaga, Porto or Schalke so I wouldnt worry too much about that. Obviously Barcelona are the ones to avoid, but it seems this year, there wont be too much of an advantage finishing 1st or 2nd.

Potential/Probable opponents if City win the group:
PSG, AC Milan, Juventus*, Valencia, Celtic, Galatasaray

*unless Chelsea beat them to it meaning you only have 5 potential opponents

Potential/Probable opponents if City finish 2nd:
Porto, Schalke, Malaga, Shakhtar, Bayern, Barcelona

3, IMO, you'd definitely be favourites for, Shakhtar would be very tricky, and obviously Bayern & Barca the toughies.

 

[Aguero_Element]

I’ve been on this forum for a while now, as many of you will know. I’ve seen how pissed off you get after (rare) defeats and I understand that sometimes, in the heat of the moment, people can say things that, the next day, they wont mean. In contrast, I see the reactions to some of your big wins and how many people’s opinions of players/staff and the like are immediately inflated, sometimes rightly and sometimes wrongly.

I put that down however, to the fickle nature of football fans in general, and not just with City.

However, I’ll be honest here though, in that I am amazed at some of your thoughts on tonight’s game, your potential CL campaign outcome, the upcoming game against Chelsea and the Europa League.

A couple of years ago, when Spurs nicked the CL spot from you after ‘that’ Crouch goal, this place was not happy, and understandably so. After such a rapid & prominent rise since Sheikh Mansour took over, CL qualification was the immediate aim, long before a potential League Title.

Fast forward a year and you got exactly what you wanted, by finishing 3rd.

Manchester City in the Champions League – who’d have thought it? Fuck me, 10 years ago you were playing the likes of Wycombe, Mansfield and even my Oldham!

Draws haven’t been kind as we all know, and to be honest, the performances haven’t been there either. BUT, whilst you still have a chance to qualify for the KO rounds this season, and since it’s only fucking November and the PL title race hasn’t even got going yet, I cannot fathom some of the reactions on here this last few days, in particular to the question posed the other day, “Would you accept a defeat against Real, for a win at Chelsea”?

Now surely it’s not just me here, but whilst you can still qualify for the CL, why the fuck wouldn’t you want to go all guns blazing tonight, against the most successful team in European Cup history, on your home patch, knowing a win could keep you in the hunt for the KO rounds. There’s plenty of things to consider here...

1. Ajax definitely have a chance of beating Dortmund
2. Equally, City have the squad to beat Madrid
3. It’s November, you lose to Chelsea and, at worst, you’re 2pts behind United. Fuck me, they bottled an 8pt lead last year in April, what the fuck is a 2pt advantage in November, especially when they have to visit The Etihad in a few weeks.

I guess what I am saying, is that I can’t believe the majority of people on here would happily abandon any CL hopes now, if a guaranteed win against Chelsea was available on Sunday. Fair enough, if we were in February and you were 3pts behind in the PL, then I could perhaps understand it a little.

But this is the Champions League, something 10 years ago you would have laughed at the possibility of participating in, and you’re playing Real Madrid, at home, whilst qualification is STILL possible. Even if Dortmund did pick something up in Amsterdam tonight, think of the extra confidence your team would get by turning Real Madrid over. A defeat to Chelsea on Sunday is as far away from the end of the world as possible. Imagine losing to Madrid tonight, only to see that Ajax had beaten Dortmund?

Lastly, whilst I agree that the PL is the big focus again this season, surely a Europa League stint would be useful in it’s own ways. Just look how much Co-efficiency points Atletico Madrid earned last season when they won the competition. They’re on the brink of Pot 1 as it stands.

You have two very good players for every position and I see no reason why you cannot challenge on both fronts, even by keeping the PL as the priority.

Lastly, from a personal point of view, I’ve always thought of City fans as a good bunch. Especially when you factor in just how arrogant those ***** across the road have been all these years. I guess I just thought I’d never see you turn your noses up at competitions like the Europa League now you’ve got some success behind you.

There’s a lot of positives to take out of a win against Madrid tonight, even if Dortmund beat Ajax.

It’s not the end of the world if you lose to Chelsea on Sunday.


*Cue potential Rag comments.

not arsed about the champions league, its a load of crap!

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Not really. If Madrid beat Ajax (which they will), City will finish 2nd (providing you win twice and Dortmund lose twice, obviously).

I'd like to finish top of the group as 2nd just means we're guaranteed Barca whilst United will get Celtic or someone equally as passable.

-- Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:07 pm --

Haha, I know.

Put it this way, two home wins in the group tonight (which is far from impossible) and, IMO, it's in your hands when you travel to Dortmund as Ajax will get fuck all in Madrid.

not fair 2bh, Ajax have got something at ours and beaten us, Dortmund went and got something in Madrid and we nearly did, so if Ajax beat Dortmund and have everything to play for there's no reason to rule them out and dismiss them, they were dismissed at the start of the group and they took 4 points off us.

The only reason they've picked up points against you though is simply because you've not played well and the lucky non-penalty at the Etihad. Madrid & Dortmund have both played well, simply because they are very good teams.

It might sound harsh, but, IMO, they have no chance getting anything from the Bernabeu, even if you nearly scraped a draw and Dortmund did.

And as for you wanting to top the group, lets not be greedy eh? ;-)

Plus, coming 2nd in the group means you can still be drawn against Malaga, Porto or Schalke so I wouldnt worry too much about that. Obviously Barcelona are the ones to avoid, but it seems this year, there wont be too much of an advantage finishing 1st or 2nd.

Potential/Probable opponents if City win the group:
PSG, AC Milan, Juventus*, Valencia, Celtic, Galatasaray

*unless Chelsea beat them to it meaning you only have 5 potential opponents

Potential/Probable opponents if City finish 2nd:
Porto, Schalke, Malaga, Shakhtar, Bayern, Barcelona

3, IMO, you'd definitely be favourites for, Shakhtar would be very tricky, and obviously Bayern & Barca the toughies.

We would end up with Shakhtar, Bayern or Barca if we finished 2nd and Juventus or PSG if we won the group, that's how UEFA draws work.

United on the other hand will get Celtic or AC Milan.

 

[Anonymous]

it was my question you mentioned and i see nothing wrong with it,

and neither did most blues, it's unlikely we'll go through, even if we win tonight.

a win on sunday would be huge and really kick us on.

and to be honest you fucking wum a lot anyway o.p.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

it was my question you mentioned and i see nothing wrong with it,

I never said there was.

and neither did most blues, it's unlikely we'll go through, even if we win tonight.

But not impossible.

a win on sunday would be huge and really kick us on.

A defeat and you'd only be 2pts behind United, with the home derby to follow, and still ahead of Chelsea.

and to be honest you fucking wum a lot anyway o.p.

Complete bollocks.

 

[mcfcallo]

If we beat Madrid Tonight and still not go through the confidence of a team in "crises" will get from beating the one of the best european teams if we win tonight we,ll still win sunday COME ON CITY

 

[Anonymous]

it was my question you mentioned and i see nothing wrong with it,

I never said there was.

and neither did most blues, it's unlikely we'll go through, even if we win tonight.

But not impossible.

a win on sunday would be huge and really kick us on.

A defeat and you'd only be 2pts behind United, with the home derby to follow, and still ahead of Chelsea.

and to be honest you fucking wum a lot anyway o.p.

Complete bollocks.

you singled out my question as a problem with the board, we're not completely out i agree but we've got three results that need to go our way that are very unlikely to come off. it was a simple question if city fans would prefer a win in tonights game or sundays.

and i believe retaining the league is the most important thing this season. if we win sunday and beat them in the derby then that's 4 points clear which obviously isn't a huge deal as we found out last year but it would be a big step to retaining the league.

not sure what your point was in singling out my thread?

of course i want us to go all out for the win tonight, i was merely pointing out IF i had to choose i'd prefer a win sunday.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

you singled out my question as a problem with the board

No, I didn't.

Not once have I said I have a problem with the question you posed. What I said I was surprised at, was the answers to the question.