The NHS

It's all private here and fucking fantastic compared to the shite back in the UK.
Oh and it costs me 243ch per month. That's £196 or £2352 per year. How much is the average cost per capita in the UK? More ;)

I seem to remember seeing a chart of countries in Europe ranked by health care and the UK was pretty much midtable. The NHS is good but I do think we do tend to overate it a bit and there are equally as good, or better, healthcare systems out there.
 
In what way is the nhs model different than other European countries?
Surely there is at least one working model the uk could copy.

To be honest I don't know.

The model we have is not perfect, I believe everyone knows that and its why I do what I do to try and make it better and more responsive to people/patients needs.

A point was made earlier in the thread by somebody that I meant to respond to and became side tracked about the NHS being run by a political appointee who probably has little experience of the NHS. Lansley proved that a political appointee can almost wreck a service through idiotic reform based on ideology and I would prefer the NHS to be taken out of the political remit. In fact we could go further and take it out of party politics completely and democratise it as a singular stand alone entity. I see little wrong with elections specifically aimed at electing a head of the NHS who could stand for office on a manifesto of what that persons vision for the NHS could be. That could possibly attract people of high calibre who are associated with the NHS and familiar with its nuances and foibles. It would mean of course that the Labour party would have to sacrifice one of its main electoral themes but the upside of that could be it would show people it was prepared to undertake grown up politics for the good of the people. A notional percentage spend of GDP would have to be allocated and agreed by central government before an election of course and powers transferred to regional heads to raise extra funds depending on disparate circumstances.

The choice then would be with the electorate as to what it wanted from the NHS rather than it being a diktat from a government appointee.
 
Or instead we can borrow more money to be paid back with interest at a later unspecified date which is the current Labour policy.

Are you aware of the Multiplier effect or are you an advocate of handbag economics?
 
To be honest I don't know.

The model we have is not perfect, I believe everyone knows that and its why I do what I do to try and make it better and more responsive to people/patients needs.

A point was made earlier in the thread by somebody that I meant to respond to and became side tracked about the NHS being run by a political appointee who probably has little experience of the NHS. Lansley proved that a political appointee can almost wreck a service through idiotic reform based on ideology and I would prefer the NHS to be taken out of the political remit. In fact we could go further and take it out of party politics completely and democratise it as a singular stand alone entity. I see little wrong with elections specifically aimed at electing a head of the NHS who could stand for office on a manifesto of what that persons vision for the NHS could be. That could possibly attract people of high calibre who are associated with the NHS and familiar with its nuances and foibles. It would mean of course that the Labour party would have to sacrifice one of its main electoral themes but the upside of that could be it would show people it was prepared to undertake grown up politics for the good of the people. A notional percentage spend of GDP would have to be allocated and agreed by central government before an election of course and powers transferred to regional heads to raise extra funds depending on disparate circumstances.

The choice then would be with the electorate as to what it wanted from the NHS rather than it being a diktat from a government appointee.

The problem is that the public expect the Government to be held accountable for the NHS. And not just for financing it or long term strategy, but also for day to day running. Every time we had a winter flu epidemic the Government would be expected to deliver daily progress reports, seen to be getting to grips with the problems. I honestly dont think the wider public would be prepared to take politics out of the NHS.

It would certainly help if the NHS took greater responsibility for its own organisation. The NHS is always being reorganised externally by politicians, never by itself. No wonder they dont work.
 
I'm prompted to ask this after my daring to question junior doctors in another thread, and the general outrage such comments cause. It wasn't particularly bad this time, but generally, if anyone makes any negative comments about the NHS, they are treated like they've fucked the pope.

What is it that causes such reaction? Is it because the NHS employs SO many people that nearly everyone has a family member or friend or neighbour who works for them?

Any suggestion that the NHS could be improved by some change or other, is pounced upon. And god help anyone who suggests - shock horror - maybe the private sector could do some of the work!?! You'd be rounded up and shot if some had their way.

If the service the NHS gave was amazing, it would be easier to understand. But the waiting times are terrible, the availability of leading edge treatments and facilities "patchy" to downright poor. And the clinical outcomes for things like cancer, woeful. In short, it's pretty poor to be honest.

People who work there are all "angels" or "heros" or whatever. Despite the fact they *chose* to go into the profession and they get paid for doing so. They weren't press-ganged into it. But dare to suggest that some nurses are lazy sods for whom picking up crap off the floor or doing some other actually important task, is beneath them.

You go up to the average nursing station on the average ward and 3 or 4 of them will blank you for 10 minutes. If any shop treated you like that, you'd walk out. But when the NHS does it, they are marvellous.

Why no such love-in for the chemical engineering industry? How about passionately sticking up for airport security staff who do such an amazing job preventing those nasty terrorists?

Nope, the NHS is rank average at best, and the sooner people can stop romanticising and face up to the fact, the sooner we can start thinking about how we can get a better health service for all of us.

Worked for the NHS, admitting bias right away.

People who work for the NHS are seen as heros and angels because they do a job that is on the whole pretty abhorrent. You get covered in piss and shit and bodily fluids on a daily basis. When its not vile it can be emotionally tolling on a level that is difficult to understand if you've not been there. Personally I'll take getting covered in vomit from a pensioner with a gastro bleed any day over watching the light leave a mothers eyes as she realises the chest compressions aren't doing a fucking thing for her child. Or the sound of a man who has popped in for a visit to his elderly mum and found that shes fallen down the stairs and had to lie there for hours cold and alone and scared. These are extreme examples, but they happen every single day on every single shift for a lot of people. Welcome to the world of emergency healthcare, every single person I speak to is having at the very least a very bad day and possibly the worst day of their lives.

These are not things that happen on a daily basis in the chemical engineering industry or at airport security. You do not rely on chemical engineers and baggage scanners to save the day on the worst day of your life. They do an important job but the stakes and the pressure are incomparable. Airport security might prevent a terrorist attack sure, but they don't go in to working knowing that a situation of that magnitude is going to happen on a daily, weekly, monthly basis - they know it will happen at most once in their careers. Paramedics do, Doctors do, Call Handlers do. That is why they are treated differently.

The NHS is failing in many regards, I fully accept that. This is because the NHS suffers from chronic problems:

1. The NHS suffers from a complete lack of funding. Yes the NHS has a massive budget and yes it has a lot of staff but in comparison to the budget it would have if we were all paying for private health care it is miniscule. We pay a small fee for a good service, if you want to pay a large fee for a superb service you are more than able to. If I buy a Dacia Sandero I don't expect it to act like an Aston Martin, I just accept that in 90% of situations it is going to do everything I need a car to do and in the extreme examples I'll take the hit. I was made redundant with a significant number of my colleagues because my trust didn't get a 2% rise to keep up with inflation, that's how fine the margins are.

2. The NHS is ultimately run by people who are making decisions based on short political careers. Perhaps they are Health Secretary for a parliament or two or perhaps they are for 5 minutes before a reshuffle. Every one of them wants to make a big difference, a big win so they can continue climbing the ladder and the overwhelming majority of them have little to no experience in healthcare. No other major global businesses make decisions on such a short term basis (football clubs tend to and most of them yoyo around uncontrollably, just look at City before we got a stable long term plan).

This is just my opinion, feel free to disagree and I really don't want to have an argument. The NHS is a fantastic institution doing a fantastic job in shitty circumstances and I will always defend it because I have seen it and its people at its best and worst, and I've seen private healthcare at its best and worst and I know which one I want for my family every time. Maybe I'll die of cancer that could have been prevented, maybe I'll get hit by a car and have to wait too long for an ambulance, but at least I won't bankrupt my family in the process and I won't see the people who need the most help get turned away because they don't have a salary to match.
 
Worked for the NHS, admitting bias right away.

People who work for the NHS are seen as heros and angels because they do a job that is on the whole pretty abhorrent. You get covered in piss and shit and bodily fluids on a daily basis. When its not vile it can be emotionally tolling on a level that is difficult to understand if you've not been there. Personally I'll take getting covered in vomit from a pensioner with a gastro bleed any day over watching the light leave a mothers eyes as she realises the chest compressions aren't doing a fucking thing for her child. Or the sound of a man who has popped in for a visit to his elderly mum and found that shes fallen down the stairs and had to lie there for hours cold and alone and scared. These are extreme examples, but they happen every single day on every single shift for a lot of people. Welcome to the world of emergency healthcare, every single person I speak to is having at the very least a very bad day and possibly the worst day of their lives.

These are not things that happen on a daily basis in the chemical engineering industry or at airport security. You do not rely on chemical engineers and baggage scanners to save the day on the worst day of your life. They do an important job but the stakes and the pressure are incomparable. Airport security might prevent a terrorist attack sure, but they don't go in to working knowing that a situation of that magnitude is going to happen on a daily, weekly, monthly basis - they know it will happen at most once in their careers. Paramedics do, Doctors do, Call Handlers do. That is why they are treated differently.

The NHS is failing in many regards, I fully accept that. This is because the NHS suffers from chronic problems:

1. The NHS suffers from a complete lack of funding. Yes the NHS has a massive budget and yes it has a lot of staff but in comparison to the budget it would have if we were all paying for private health care it is miniscule. We pay a small fee for a good service, if you want to pay a large fee for a superb service you are more than able to. If I buy a Dacia Sandero I don't expect it to act like an Aston Martin, I just accept that in 90% of situations it is going to do everything I need a car to do and in the extreme examples I'll take the hit. I was made redundant with a significant number of my colleagues because my trust didn't get a 2% rise to keep up with inflation, that's how fine the margins are.

2. The NHS is ultimately run by people who are making decisions based on short political careers. Perhaps they are Health Secretary for a parliament or two or perhaps they are for 5 minutes before a reshuffle. Every one of them wants to make a big difference, a big win so they can continue climbing the ladder and the overwhelming majority of them have little to no experience in healthcare. No other major global businesses make decisions on such a short term basis (football clubs tend to and most of them yoyo around uncontrollably, just look at City before we got a stable long term plan).

This is just my opinion, feel free to disagree and I really don't want to have an argument. The NHS is a fantastic institution doing a fantastic job in shitty circumstances and I will always defend it because I have seen it and its people at its best and worst, and I've seen private healthcare at its best and worst and I know which one I want for my family every time. Maybe I'll die of cancer that could have been prevented, maybe I'll get hit by a car and have to wait too long for an ambulance, but at least I won't bankrupt my family in the process and I won't see the people who need the most help get turned away because they don't have a salary to match.
Superb post , my Mrs works in the hospital and some days we don’t talk for an hour after she come in , she needs time to come down from the intense working day at ‘the Madhouse ‘ as she calls it .
One thing though , the amount of money wasted is incredible .
 
Superb post , my Mrs works in the hospital and some days we don’t talk for an hour after she come in , she needs time to come down from the intense working day at ‘the Madhouse ‘ as she calls it .
One thing though , the amount of money wasted is incredible .

Its ridiculous. I've waited in a hallway looking after 7 different patients so they're crews could get back out on the road during winter pressures before. The hospital staff don't want that, I don't want that, the patients definitely don't want that but that hospital was built 50 years ago with a wildly different population in its boundaries and they weren't expectation that population to just keep on rocketing up so why build more ward space? And now we can't afford to build more wards so the problem persists. The infrastructure doesn't help anything and only able 10 people in the whole country could change that, and even if they did want to it would take 5-10 years.

I'm just rambling now but yeah, cheers.
 
1 in 3 public pounds goes into the NHS yet people cry 'underfunded'. It's poorly run with a frontline team left to piece it together and cover the cracks.
Everyone I know who has worked in the NHS mentions the amount of money wasted. It's an absolute shambles.
 
1 in 3 public pounds goes into the NHS yet people cry 'underfunded'. It's poorly run with a frontline team left to piece it together and cover the cracks.
Everyone I know who has worked in the NHS mentions the amount of money wasted. It's an absolute shambles.
The nhs pay £100 for stuff you can get on eBay for £10
 

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